Leica Freedom Train rebuttal

Hell, they aren't out to just eliminate the Jews, they are out to impose their version of divine law on all mankind and they have reiterated over and over that it includes the destruction of anyone they deem to be 'heretics' or 'infidels'. They also claim to be prepared to initiate Armagedon in order to cleans the world of those who do not comply. Anyone who (in theiir judgement) isn't prepared to convert under the threat of the sword to their version of Islam is to be removed from the earth. The Mullahs and their puppet have made that quite clear on more than one occasion. <p> Isn't Claude's interpretation of the 'Karma' business in the same league with 'Predestination' as preached by the Calvinist Christians? Sounds every bit like what I was indoctrinated with in sunday school!

I can win an argument on any topic, against any opponent. People know this, and steer clear

of me at parties. Often, as a sign of their great respect, they don't even invite me.

- Dave Barry

" The Iranians are the modern day Nazis and their goal is to exterminate the Jews."

 

There was a bit more to Nazism than the Holocaust, and hopefully we can learn more from that period than the simple and obvious truth that anti-semitism is a bad thing. For instance, the pursuit of foreign policy objectives for purely ideological reasons (spreading democracy, or creating a racially pure lebensraum (then in the East, now in parts of Israel)) is far more dangerous in the present context than any threat to Israel (which is very well able to defend itself), because ideology knows no limits and all objectives are merely provisional. In that sense, I think that the US and Britain's role in the world is very worrying at the present time - policy objectives should be determined by interests, not ideology.

 

BTW, that Pindelski guy's site is a hoot and a holler!

Iran is not anti semitic. You should know that there is a <a href="http://www.haruth.com/

JewsIran.html">decent sized Jewish community in Iran</a> who are quite free to worship as

they like.

Heres a very recent article that documents the Jews in Iran today. Apparently the largely

secular Jewish community in Iran has become much more devout since the revolution.

 

<a href="http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1202811.htm">http://

www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1202811.htm</a>

For instance, the pursuit of foreign policy objectives for purely ideological reasons (spreading democracy, or creating a racially pure lebensraum (then in the East, now in parts of Israel))

 

Only the loony left could equate spreading democracy with the Nazi goal of racial purity. Fascism and communism uberalis.

Quite right, Eliot: I should have put quotes around "spreading democracy". I keep forgetting you need it all explained to you. So here goes:

 

"Spreading democracy" is an ideological objective which can be exploited to serve an unspecified and unpredictable range of material (and immaterial) interests. As such, we should regard it with the greatest distrust, since there are no inherent limits to its applicability. For instance, if we were to set "grabbing all the world's oil" as an explicit objective, then it would be possible to see whether it was being fulfilled or not, and what actions are germaine to the project. "Spreading democracy", on the other hand, can be spun in any and every direction, and it's impossible to judge what the consequences of espousing it might be.

Righto Bob. Democracy is fine for you and me but the Iraqis and ASfghanis, Iranians, etc. don't deserve it. What you write sounds like gobblydigook. You've obviously spent too much time reading from the Daily Kos, moveon.org, Susan Sontag, et al.

Someone's been spreading Democracy on pretty thick lately.

Eliot, you really are like a black hole from which no light escapes.

Claude, Typical, when you run out of arguments you result to insults. You started this silly thread not me.

Ah well... one tries and tries.

Eliot, <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5309376.stm">maybe you ought to

convert to Islam, then maybe you'll see the light.</a>

I think that this thread has run its course. Time to start discussing various generations of coatings and whether or not coating technology really does have an effect on bokeh. The important stuff! Or maybe just turn of your computer and go run some Tri-X through your M while it's still available.

A new message is circulating about the Leica Freedom Train. This message is a direct, word-for-word copy of some publicity text that is

repeated verbatim on a number of internet sites, including Wikipedia. It is coming to the surface now because there is a film in the works

(possibly for release soon) that dramatizes this story. However, there is debate about exactly how many Jews the Leitz family saved,

especially "colleagues" external to the company, and more importantly Ernst Leitz II's' motives for sending Jewish employees to its foreign

sales offices.

 

An alternate description of this action suggests the following. It is well-known that Ernst Leitz II and his company collaborated with the

Nazis in designing and developing advanced sight, targeting, and optical technology. And, it is conceivable that Leitz had no choice in

doing so. On the other hand, perhaps in concert with these war efforts, Leitz elected to hide Jews from the Nazis for his own benefit.

Firstly, many, maybe even most, of Leitz' executive, design, technical, and detail assembly personnel were Jewish. Secondly, these Jewish

employees held (and invented), were privileged to, and/or were intimate with Leitz' intellectual property and industrial knowledge. In order

to maintain ownership and control over his company's proprietary information, technical advancements, patents, and international

leadership position within the industry, one can conjecture that Leitz protected these employees to maintain their loyalty. He certainly

would want them to continue contributing to and making further improvements in Leica's products and simultaneously prevent them from

spreading Leitz' technology to competitors. In other words, Ernst Leitz II may have had no choice but to protect and support his Jewish

employees if he wished to ensure the survival and market position of his company, and implicitly his own wealth and power.

 

There are obvious questions about whether Leitz II had a humanitarian mission as his guide. It's entirely possible that Leitz acted like any

businessman who relied on highly skilled employees, many of whom happened to be Jewish in this particular industry. Today, it is difficult

to evaluate if he adhered to any noble will or moral compass. The facts behind this story require further corroboration.

 

I am skeptical of publicity. I always encourage people to carefully evaluate publicity. It often resembles propaganda and serves the

interests of those who disseminate it, in this case the film industry. At the same time, I hope the story and statistics are entirely accurate.

It is always inspiring and heart-warming to hear about real heros who take tremendous risk and defy authorities. If Leitz indeed saved his

Jewish employees and other Jewish colleagues, friends, and acquaintances from the Nazis, he should be honored and remembered as a

truly great man.