Why no more Eye controlled focus (ECF) in DSLR?

re ECF: I miss it (Canon are you listening?

 

re IS: Canon and Nikon use in-lens IS, according to recent (Japanese) sales figures their market share is around 80%, leaving the rest for in-body IS and no-IS suppliers. I think the market shares have to shift dramatically before Canon or Nikon will consider to offer in-body IS.

for me, it does not work very well!

I do really like my EOS3, but it must be somehow the potential nightmare for those who suffer for "Astigmatism". I remeber that we did a lot of fun of that when EOS3 was introduced to the market.

 

Cheers

I would buy a DSLR that had ECF!

 

ECF was very effective for me, especially for small moving critters and also for multiple-spot metering, to read the contrast range of a scene (another EOS 3 feature I miss on my DSLR).

 

To make ECF work consistently, I did (as Mark U mentions above) invest time in calibration, and I still do periodic calibrations when I use my EOS 3. It is quick and easy to do with practice (almost 2nd nature).

 

I never had the roving eye problem with ECF on my EOS 3 ("that drives the ECF wild"). I used CF 4 to put AF activation on the "Star" button on the back of the camera, so, ECF was only active when I pressed this button to activate AF.

 

Cheers! Jay

We had both the Elan IIe and an EOS3. The ECF worked for both of us (my wife wears glasses) but we only used it sparingly due to our shooting styles and subjects. Interestingly, while the ECF worked for me using the EOS3, my wife could never get it to work for her. We spent a lot of time trying to calibrate it for her (and I'm the one with the astigmatism) but never got it. I didn't really use it much on the EOS3 either, as we took predominantly bird and animal photos with it, much of the time using a Canon 300 mm f/4 plus 2X teleconverter, which could only focus using the center AF point (I wish THAT focusing point were available in the 5D-range of camera). As you might guess, the inclusion or lack of ECF is a non-factor to us.

Wooi, it's just a Marketing Decision from Canon,

 

A simple test would be for Canon to have two of the same camera's(aka 7D, 7De), one without ECF, and one with ECF. Charge extra for the ECF, and let the market decide which one will sell the best.

 

How many EOS IIe, 5, 7e, 7ne, 3, were sold than others, without ECF? Kind of funny, all the EOS 3's are gone(USA), and Canon is left with their flagship 1v, holding the bag, without ECF.

 

BTW, Canon, where is my 7D ECF? I will pre order my 7De now.

I like the ECF. It is one thing I like in my EOS-3 over my 5D (not to mention better AF overall but I don't want to start down that road--I really like my 5D). However, It is not too slow to press the button and spin the main select wheel on the 5D; but there will be times when you lose shots.

From what I've read, the Olympus IS system only works either on the lens or on the body. You can't have both turned at the same time or the whole thing goes wonky and it will shake like crazy. You also can't use it with the camera attached to a tripod or the system shudders. One of the firmware upgrades Olympus has offered is the ability to use in-body IS with legacy lenses mounted to the body. This opens the door well beyond just having the feature for ultra-wide lenses, but for any lens that can be mounted to a dSLR... which considering the popularity of the EOS system for mounting manual focus lenses I'm very surprised they don't offer that feature. I suppose Canon might consider body-side IS as an Olympus feature, but they certainly didn't seem to mind that perception when it came to Live View. ;)

 

As far as the ECF feature, my bet is that Canon is holding out on this feature to offer in the future and claim it as a revolutionary feature when people's memory retention of the film-body ECF has faded. You know... sorta like starting with small viewfinders and slowly creeping them up in magnification and size over the years. After-all, if you offer ALL of the features you spent 15 years developing in film SLR's on your dSLR's, where will you have to go in the future?

I would definitely prefer ECF over sensor IS. Especially in team sports it's really the only system that is fast enough to choose in hurry situations. I simply hate the button and roller system in 1D. I have the ECF in my old EOS 30. If Canon says it is a market decision they certainly don't know the users of their products very well.

>Is it possible to have in IS body and IS lens work together?

 

I would say yes, if you do it right: The in body IS has most likely less mass to move around. Therefore, it could be used to correct high frequency shake while it leaves the low frequency components to the IS of the lens, which should be able to correct a larger amount of shake. However, combining the two would not be a trivial task.

I owned an EOS-5 which had the first ECF and if work very well for me. I used it 100% of the time when shooting

wildlife. When I started shooting weddings I never used ECF, although I only shot a few weddings with the 5 before

changing to an EOS-3 and a 1VHS. I never used ECF on the EOS-3. The ECF on the 3 does not work the same as

on the 5. On the 5 you look one of the focus points and the ECF focuses on that FP. On the 3, at least the way it

work for me, you look at an area in the view finder where you want camera to focus and the ECF lights up a FP in

that area and focuses on that FP. I could never be sure it would select the FP I wanted. When shooting weddings I

need to know that the camera is focused where I want it.

 

I would like to see Canon offer the ECF on a DSLR but it would have to be more reliable than it was on the EOS-3.

 

Cliff

I liked the ECF on my Elan IIe as it also had depth of field EC. Once I got my tripod set just right, I could just use eye control to focus on a point, check dof, repeat at will, without having to hit that tiny little button and jiggle the camera off point. A small thing I admit, but very handy when your tripod is just barely balanced, or you had to use one hand to steady it in a breeze

<cite>On the 5 you look one of the focus points and the ECF focuses on that FP. On the 3, at least the way it

work for me, you look at an area in the view finder where you want camera to focus and the ECF lights up a FP in

that area and focuses on that FP.</cite>

 

<p>I've never used the 3, but your description of how it works fits what the brochure says (which looks a lot

like how a marketing person would attempt to portray a limitation as a nifty new feature):</p>

 

<blockquote>With the EOS-3's 45-Point Area AF, Eye Controlled Focus is now on a higher plane. Instead of looking

at any particular focusing point, just look at the subject anywhere with the Area AF ellipse.</blockquote>

 

<p>I had the Elan 7E, whose ECF is one generation newer than that of the 3, and has only a fraction as many focus

points to deal with. It was pretty reliable, but sometimes chose the point beside the one I was looking at. So

it's hardly surprising that the 3 would have difficulty picking the exact point you want, given its slightly

older version of ECF and much more tightly-packed collection of AF points.</p>

 

<p>If they were to offer ECF on a body with the 9-point AF system of most of their consumer DSLRs, I think that

would resolve your reliability concern. Also, if Canon were to introduce an ECF-equipped DSLR with a 45-point AF

system, they'd probably use the new 45-point system from the 1D/1Ds III, in which only a subset of the points are

manually selectable (similar in concept to what can be done with the 3, 1V, and older 1D/1Ds bodies via custom

function) with the others becoming assist points (similar to the 6 invisible points in the 5D), and the spacing

between selectable AF points would probably mean that ECF would be able to figure out which specific point you

wanted, rather than just the area.</p>

By the way, one thing I think Canon should rectify is that the focus indicators should truly correspond the size and shape of the true focus elements. I understand, and also my experience back this up, that the focus points are actually longer and narrower than the indicators. It can sometimes by quite misleading if you've got a tight spot to focus on.

<p>For those of you still hoping for ECF in a Canon DSLR, here is a more recent entry by Chuck Westfall (December, 2009) on the topic:<br>

<a href="http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html">http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0912/tech-tips.html</a><br>

If you like the ECF feature and want it in a DSLR from Canon, please write to the email address provided by Chuck in the above cited article and request it. They won't know we want it if we don't ask for it!<br>

For your convenience, here is the email address again: <a href="mailto:carecenter@cits.canon.com">carecenter@cits.canon.com</a>.</p>

 

<p>I think the issue of market demand is only partly the issue. I think Canon got tired of all the negative press from people who got irritated by it. So they probably thought well it's not doing their reputation any good even though it works well for most people (it will be the irritated people who are most vocal). I had 3 people in my household try it and it worked consistently for all of us - and I haven't even calibrated mine yet.<br>

I just got my EOS 3 yesterday after years of shooting digital exclusively, and I have to say, this is the best camera I have ever used (have not used the EOS 1N). My most favorite feature is the ECF, mind you I have only put a few rolls of film through it. For portraiture, I love just looking at the eye of the subject to get perfect instant focus every time (from my L-series lenses).<br>

It's foolish to talk about this feature as though the addition of it might be at the exclusion of something else - particularly in the 1D or 7D series. Come on people, we pay enough for our hardware - especially a 1D. I initially bought the EOS 3 simply because I don't have the funds for a full-frame digital camera, and I felt my lenses weren't getting their full capabilities exploited (especially the 16-35MkII). It turns out that getting the EOS 3 was probably the best thing I have ever done for my photography career. However if Canon announced that they were gonna add it to their next 1D, I would most certainly work towards the goal of obtaining that model specifically because they did so. I'm afraid after 1 day and 3 rolls of film, I am now spoilt with it and loath to go back to using my digital. I will most likely spend money on film as a result. The AF is so much better than my digitials too. I look forward to shooting my first sports event with film!<br>

I have never used the ECF for video but it really is the OBVIOUS thing to do. I reckon heaps of people would switch to canon video cameras if they added it. With video, it is not like you can rest the focus zone in the middle and focus-then-recompose for each shot. And you are not gonna use some stupid joystick while trying to hold the video camera still. The fact that it is missing is a real big gap in digital photography (video and still).</p>

<p>I would love to see Nikon put eye controlled focusing in their digital cameras. Maybe the competition would put a bur under Canon's saddle, so they would bring back and put it in their digital cameras.</p>