annabelle_p Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 <p>Hello all, I'm going to try to make this as short winded as possible... I am dealing with my first unhappy bridal client from a couple months ago. I have done over 150 weddings at this point and never had an issue with a bride. A little background, they booked me and absolutely refused an engagement session (which always makes for a tough wedding day). She "doesn't like" any of the portraits that were delivered to her, and is upset for several extremely nitpicky reasons that I'm not going to list here. (i.e, someone was blinking in ONE photo, there are only 6 photos of her by herself in the same pose, etc.) We had no more than 20 minutes for portraits due to the entire wedding day running approximately one hour+ behind. (wedding party, bridesmaids, groomsmen, individuals with each wedding party member & the bride/groom, AND the portraits of the bride and groom together...all rushed into a 20 minute time period, no exaggeration.) I delivered them well over 1,000 photos and fulfilled my end of the contract...However, she is requesting a full refund. Everyone I have shown the photos to has agreed that the photos match in quality to the photos on my website and that they are clear, in focus, and good quality photos. I offered to have a second look at the portraits and retouch them a little, but Im sure she's not going to be satisfied with anything i do (I got this feeling on the wedding day as well). I don't really feel that a full refund is necessary. I offered to refund them for a canvas print that was included in their package (because they "don't like" even one photo) but thats all I intend to refund. Anyone I've shown the photos to agrees with this decision, but I thought it might be a good idea to ask other professionals. (I wish i could post some of the photos here but I can't due to privacy reasons.)If i could post the photos here, anyone would ask what anyone thinks is wrong with the photos. (I also think she doesn't like how she looks in the photos) I know there is the saying "the customer is always right", but there are also customers who are never satisfied with anything you give them. At what point do I need to get my attorney involved in this situation?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 I'd try to resolve this irrational situation before calling in the law. Does client know that full refund means no pictures at all? Can't have both; that's not fair. What may be going on is extortion rather than seeking restitution. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 P. S. There really are people who don't like the look of their own face or body and can never be satisfied. But they shouldn't be hiring photographers! What say he groom? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzDavid Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 <p>My first reaction was similar to what Brian S. stated ... tell the bride she can have a full refund but she gets no photographs. Chances are, though, that she will realize her mistake and start nitpicking you to death about changes to this or that photo, etc ... If so, you will find yourself back where you began. Assuming you don't want to deal with that kind of situation, I'd have a backup plan. Perhaps offer everything to her in "as is" condition at a significant discount. Sell it as a "final offer" with no negotiation. Hopefully she will see the value in your offer. You could then part ways and breathe a sigh of relief.</p> David H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Don't reply. It is her drama. Do you want to part of it? If she has paid you in full, deliver the photos processed to your satisfaction. If you have not been paid in full, nothing gets delivered untill you are paid. Don't be afraid of saying no. She is trying to bully you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydann_walker Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 <p>The most important question. Do you have a contract for this work? If so, what does it state?</p> <p>I for one would also like to know, how much were you paid for this assignment?</p> <p>Until we know about the contract, it's difficult to give you any meaningful answers.</p> <p>However, from a lot of past experience in wedding, I would go with Ellis. She sounds like a bully. Stand up to her and see how she copes. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabelle_p Posted July 3, 2016 Author Share Posted July 3, 2016 <p>To answer some questions, the groom "doesn't like them" either. The contract states that I will perform the work, there is no money back guarantee. The rate was around $2,200. Ive already delivered the hi res photos and they've downloaded them twice (my hosting site tells me). The bride tells me that they are "unacceptable". I know she's going to leave bad reviews on the knot, but it will be the only one and I plan to rebuttal it for sure. Also, If anyone would like to see some of these "horrible" photos, i would be happy to share via private message, just to get some other eyes on these.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_simpson1 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 My son just got married so I've been through this recently. We paid a lot more, and I think this bride got a great deal. If I were the photog, I would answer with only one email, stating essentially that the goods have been delivered as promised, and you consider the contract fulfilled. The bride is trying to get her photos for nothing, and I would suggest you refuse to deal with her. I'll bet you hear nothing more from her, except perhaps, for a bad review which will stick out like a sore thumb,and which you can rebut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Don't ever get an attorney. Not for $2200. Use your local SMALL CLAIMS COURT if you live in the USA. It would be helpful to see a few photos of her complaints, not for judging, but to perhaps fix the problems. Some of the wedding photogs are amazing retouchers. Actually mind blowing with their abilities. I'm really good, but not like some of the others here. I started shooting weddings in 1988 I think, or was it 1987. Never had to go to court, not even close to it. That was a lot of weddings! 1500, 2000, maybe more? Doesn't matter... RELAX! It will be just fine. If the wacko bride makes threats just ignore them and continue to try to make things work out. I would perhaps offer her to redo the bridal formals. You pay for the flowers and the tux rental, but you speak with the florist and tux place and most likely the stores will offer a discount. If not, that's $500, ask the couple to split it with you, because there is no way that in small claims court that a judge will give them a full refund, unless your pics were damaged from a bad SD/CF card. It's not going to happen. A closed eye, a blink, takes me 15 to 30 second to fix in Photoshop. Lets face it, time is always a problem at 90 percent of the weddings. As a photographer we need to get these bridal shots. I don't mean to sound harsh, you may have a problem and some homework is needed, but the bride will never look more beautiful for the rest of her life, even if she remarries in 10 years or 5 years from now. I actually photographed 1 bride 4 times! She got married 4 times and used me as her photographer for all 4 weddings! I haven't heard from her lately so maybe her kids will be calling me soon and will be getting married! Time wise, you need 15 minutes with the bride and groom alone, regardless if they are late for the reception, you simply tell them that the people in charge of the reception will hold everything until the B&G show up. You have to always be stress free even though your nerves are fried and your frustration level is through the roof. You have to talk softly, calmly, like the only thing that matters right now is them. Banging off 30 to 40 shots of the bride and groom together and alone should be like you are on autopilot. Takes 5 minutes. With just one standard pose of the bride and groom together you can knock off about 15 formal shots. Full length, closeups, changing the hand positions, the groom kissing her ring finger, looking at each other, kissing each other, both looking at the rings, a closeup of the rings with the flowers behind the hands, and much more. This is from just one generic pose. Same thing with the bride alone. set the train, a few full lengths, tilting her head, holding the flowers in different ways, that's about 10 shots right there, then you do the closeup shots, So study and memorize sexy and beautiful poses. Just asking her to put her weight on her back leg changes the whole look of the dress and her pose. Asking her to put one hand on her hip and let the flowers hang down gives a sexy look, as she looks away from the camera. Suddenly you are done with 75 to 100 images in 15 to 20 minutes. You move around a bit to change the background, you change the F-stop from F2.8 to F11 so the background looks out of focus to in focus. Use a flash, no flash, then every shot is different. If you are really running out of time shoot everything full length do the same sexy and elegant poses and later crop in Photoshop, B&W Sepia, all of that! So post some pictures if you wish and lets see what us fellow flashers might be able to help you out with. Happy 4th! Cheers! Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydann_walker Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 <p>Bob B's advice is very sound. I would go with it.</p> <p>If you have delivered all the photos, then your part of the contract agreement is done. </p> <p>You could offer to clean up the best shots in photo-processing, but only minor things (like eye blinks). If she holds out for major facial surgery, consider pasting a gorilla head on all her images... by this I mean think it, and laugh about it, but don't tell her this, and don't do it!</p> <p>If I were in your shoes I wouldn't post any photos of this event. Not even on this site. Legally that could be very dangerous for you. </p> <p>And keep on shooting.</p> <p>If the b-zilla starts making threats, politely remind her that there are legal consequences (and costs) associated with libel and maliciously damaging one's professional reputation. Then step back and let her seethe. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 <blockquote> <p>"If the b-zilla starts making threats, politely remind her that there are legal consequences (and costs) associated with libel and maliciously damaging one's professional reputation. Then step back and let her seethe."</p> </blockquote> <p>I think it is neither wise nor best business practice to offer any legal advice to a client who makes threats. Should this Client make any threats, it would be better make a record of those threats and walk away.<br> Responding to any threat immediately it is made usually moves the threat and the Client's emotion to another, higher level. </p> <p>*</p> <p>To the original question: If you have delivered the product as defined in the contract and all monies have been paid and you are satisfied that you have done a good job and attended to all the after sales service necessary, then my advice is do as Ellis suggests - the transaction is finalized all you need do is walk away.</p> <p>WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svitlana_poptop Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 <p>Maybe, that is her girl drama.<br> Just curious - do you have a contract for this work? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_bergmann Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 <p>My advice would be to try to resolve this without the involvement of any third party. It sounds like this client may never be truly happy with the photos, so I would advise a firm but fair approach - ask for constructive feedback on the photos which you can then use to try and edit them in a way that she would like. Another thing I would say is if the client does end up leaving a bad review, try not to respond / engage as this can sometimes escalate the situation.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Will she ever respond back? Such great advice an no replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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