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E**y seller attitude


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<p>This concerns a current sale of a classic camera -- a Yashica TLR -- on e**y. While my post is not about the camera itself, or pictures obtained with it, I believe the information below is of interest, and primarily to "Classic Camera" aficionados.<br /> I will not call names, use adjectives, or emit judgements. Just facts.<br /> This concerns object #331402966705,<br /> http://www.ebay.it/itm/Yashica-D-biottica-bioptic-camera-yashinon-80mm-f3-5-no-rolleiflex-planar-/331402966705?ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:IT:1123</p>

<p>From the text of the announcement:<br /> <strong>Dotata dello straordinario obiettivo Yashinon 80mm f 3.5</strong><br /> <strong><strong>With the legendary lens yashinon 80mm f.3.5</strong></strong><br /> <br /> From the provided pics (see attached below). Can you read the model of the lens? <br /><br /> <br /> My message #1 to seller:</p>

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<p>You advertise :"Dotata dello __straordinario__ obiettivo Yashinon 80mm f 3.5"<br />But all your pics show a YashiKOR, with not-so-extraordinary reputation.</p>

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<p>After 2 days, sent second message:</p>

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<p>Once again: The TEXT of your offer says "straordinario obiettivo Yashinon"; the PICTURES clearly show a Yashikor, of far less value. <br />You have not answered my similar question sent more than 2 days ago.</p>

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<p>And got an answer:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Don't worry about my auction.<br />It can be possible a mistake with a sh***y lens...usually we shoot with leica and 5k euros lens...so I don't care about cheap biptical.<br />Happy new year and take care of you business...not of mine.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>"Legendary lens" has become "sh***y lens". (*** substututed by me to bypass pnet's language filter; seller's original message had no such restriction )<br /><br /> I found NO WAY to contact e**y on this matter. All comunication is carefully restricted by a limited number of formats. <br /><br /></p><div>00d2wt-553788284.JPG.58ed3fd0b69face0a732b526601274f2.JPG</div>

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<p>(i) You can say 'ebay' on photo.net. You won't get hair on your palms.</p>

<p>(ii) If somebody has inaccurately described something he's selling, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. You've done more than enough by telling him about his error.</p>

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<blockquote>

<p>If somebody has inaccurately described something he's selling, don't buy it. It's as simple as that. You've done more than enough by telling him about his error.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry, but don't agree. Is that your notion of free trade between free agents? Description has (intentional?) internal contradiction between text and images. Seller response shows he has no intent to rectify this. And none of our exchange appears to prospective buyers (I thought questions and replies were for the benefit of all potential buyers). Suppose NaiveBuyer buys the camera with the legendary Yashinon, and finds out opening the box he got Yashikors; files complaint; Seller and Ebay jointly reply: "you should have looked at the pictures".</p>

<p>It happened in the past that I pointed out a text/image contradiction; seller promptly rectified and thanked me. Here it's a different story (leaving aside the tone of the reply as immaterial).</p>

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This "totally crazy and impossibly arrogant" seller has 100% positive feedback for a couple hundred transactions. He seems to do a much better job of satisfying customers than responding to complaints (from non-buyers) about his listings.

 

I notice that there isn't actually a question in the first message to the seller. Perhaps he was annoyed by a second message demanding a quick response to an unasked question during a busy holiday period.

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<p><strong>Bernard</strong>, I agree with you fully. I have come across a few such sellers, from England, Germany, India. One became notorious for his arrogance and negative feedback. He accumulated a whole lot of negatives. Then he changed his web site and started selling just as many in a different name.<br>

Ebay goes along with such people because of their voluminous turnover and the revenue receipts for Ebay. In a recent case Ebay wrote me that a buyer has bought the camera that I advertized and so I should mail him the parcel within a specified deadline. I did so and found that the buyer had not paid Ebay at all. And Ebay washed their hands off saying "you contact the buyer". <br>

So much for Ebay's Guarantee process. Like in Real Estate business "Caveat Emptor" is the principle that we have to follow and be in the safe zone. And when you sell make sure that the buyer has paid the money to Ebay or PayPal. PayPal seems better organized in these things. sp.</p>

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<p><em>This "totally crazy and impossibly arrogant" seller has 100% positive feedback for a couple hundred transactions. </em><br>

... but he was still apparently very rude and too lazy to answer what as far as I can see was a perfectly reasonable question. If a guy has the attitude that a lens has to cost 5,000 euros to be worthwhile, and that conversely potential buyers for cheaper items are a total pain, I think Bernard has the right to be offended!</p>

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<p>The sellers response indicates his general disposition. I would never buy anything from people like him. Most of the time inaccurate listings are just out of ignorance. I have kindly contacted a few sellers about obvious mistakes and most have sent back replies along the lines of, 'thank you, corrected now'. One exception was a seller trying to sell a 'T' mount adapter for a Olympus Pen F mount as a 'M42 mount adapter' for Pen F. I let him know right away but he insisted that a M42 lens he had would thread into the adapter. I sent a more detailed explanation of the difference between the two adapters but could not convince him of the facts. I did not follow what transpired after that. As always, online sales of any type enjoin a certain amount of due diligence on the part of the buyer.</p>
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<p>"The sellers response indicates his general disposition."</p>

<p>As does postings like this indicate the general disposition of people who get all fired up about an auction which they have no involvement...</p>

<p>The first message was informative. After that not so much.</p>

<p>It is sad... very sad. </p>

...
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<p>Bernard, its time for a cold shower.</p>

<p>I got curious, looked at the offending listing, the seller's other current listings and his feedback as a seller. I don't know why he didn't correct what looks like a slip but he comes off as safe to buy from.</p>

<p>I've occasionally sent sellers reports of errors in listings. Some haven't responded or corrected their listings, some have corrected their listings, a few have replied with abuse. That's the wonderful world of on-line auctions. </p>

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<p>Given that half the messages are in Italian, also do consider that there are cultural differences in play, and that the seller may not speak perfect English and interpret the original comment in a different manner than it was intended; personally I also think the second comment is a bit unneeded and probably sparked his aggressive tone a bit more. It's holiday season, responding punctually to this things isn't mandatory. <br />We have one side of the story here, and yes, it's not a very eloquent answer. But leave the seller some benefit of the doubt; the positive feedback is telling a different story after all. It may all just be a miscommunication due to language barriers. I wouldn't judge too quickly.</p>
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<p>I take the reviews with a grain of salt. Important, but not conclusive. if you see something hinky about the seller communication or what he says about the camera it's better not to buy and this becomes more so the higher the cost of the item. This would turn me off of the deal unless it was something so uncommon that I was prepared to take a chance. Even then I might not do it.</p>
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<p>I have occasionally tried to help a presumably naive seller by sending them a note on an error in the listing. Mostly, I get a thank you back.<br /> I have also encountered the sort of reaction indicated here.<br /> eBay is the world, and the world is eBay.<br /> It's filled with</p>

<blockquote>

<p>rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, bugg*rers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dyk*es, train robbers, bank robbers, *ss-kickers, sh_t-kickers and Methodists</p>

</blockquote>

<p>[boy, is the automatic censor here tough!]</p>

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<p>I agree there are many rude buyers and sellers. But ebay is pretty good about making sure the buyer can get his money back for just about anything. And for that reason I am pretty much given up on selling on ebay. I've had buyers compain and the money sits there for a month. They dont return the item, they just want to extort a partial refund.<br>

Also ebay takes way too much on commission, and especially considering they take in fees from paypal as well.</p>

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<p>At least this generated some traffic on Classic Cameras... ;-)<br>

I give below a few comments on the responses, that fall broadly in two categories:<br>

A) (extreme example) : [David Bebbington] "<em>This seller is totally crazy and impossibly arrogant</em>" (more than what I wrote myself)<br>

B) [Mike Dixon] "<em>This "totally crazy and impossibly arrogant" seller has 100% positive feedback for a couple hundred transactions. He seems to do a much better job of satisfying customers than responding to complaints (from non-buyers) about his listings. I notice that there isn't actually a question in the first message to the seller. Perhaps he was annoyed by a second message demanding a quick response to an unasked question during a busy holiday period</em>."<br>

This raises two points.<br>

<em>unasked question.</em> Anyone having attended meetings, seminars, etc, know that there is no hard distinction between a <em>remark</em> and a <em>question</em>. A remark concerns a point in the delivered message that seems ambiguous or contradictory, and implicitly carries the <em>question</em>: "can you please explain, comment, clarify?"<br>

<em>from non-buyers.</em>You happen to be in a store seeing a clerk about to sell to an unsuspecting customer with not much dsiposable income, a product/service that you <em>know </em>to be total lemon/scam. Just walk on, because you don't intend to buy yourself?<br>

--------------<br>

"<em>people who get all fired up</em>" [brian S.] "<em>Bernard, its time for a cold shower</em>" [Dan Fromm] I thought my OP was as factual as can be.<br>

"<em>Given that half the messages are in Italian, also do consider that there are cultural differences in play</em>" [Wouter Willemse]. Whether in Italian <em>straordinario obiettivo</em> or in English <em>legendary lens</em> the meaning is pretty well the same and leaves little room for an excuse based on cultural differences. And the seller seems to have some familarity with colloquial English when the legendary lens suddenly becomes sh***y.<br>

"I<em> do buy from seller who inaccurately described the item he/she is selling provided I know what item it is and the price is right. Sometimes it's less expensive that way</em>." [beBu Lamar] Agree. Sometimes "I don't know if this camera works" is just a sincere expression of the seller. Double-speak (Yashinon/kor) and arrogance is something else.<br>

"<em>by sending them a note on an error in the listing. Mostly, I get a thank you back</em>." [JDM von Weinberg] Also my experience. Generally.</p>

 

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<blockquote>

<p>"I should mail him the parcel within a specified deadline. I did so and found that the buyer had not paid Ebay" <em><strong>Subbarayan P.</strong></em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's pretty basic in business, regardless of what message Ebay <strong>auto generates</strong>, why you would ship anything without confirming payment?</p>

<p>Now, I'm with Bernard and the others who have the desire in making Ebay more accurate/honest.<br>

It takes but a minute to correct a sellers error. If he doesn't react appropriately, then with Ebay's current <strong>"Buyer" heavy bias</strong>, it will come out in his/her negative feedback or justified refunds.</p>

<p>So I also sent him a "contact the seller" - I encourage you others "in the know" to do the same:<br>

Title: <em>Wrong lens...</em><br>

Message:<strong><em> "Yashikor isn't Yashinon. There's a big difference in image quality..."</em></strong></p>

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<p>I agree with Bernard. A rude and unhelpful response from the seller. I have pointed out similar things for objects I could be interested in. For one, I told him that it was a not a 35mm Elmarit-R but clearly a 28mm Elmarit-R, to which he assured me it was a 35mm. I can only assume he was talking about 35mm film (even though I had also pointed out that this might have been what he meant). Unfortunately for the amount of money he was asking no one would want to go to the hassle of finding out what he actually had. I too wonder what happens to these auctions.</p>
Robin Smith
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<blockquote>

<p>It's pretty basic in business, regardless of what message Ebay <strong>auto generates</strong>, why you would ship anything without confirming payment?</p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>Gus</strong>,Thanks for the clarification. Ebay does not tell me to ship unless someone has bought the item, by paying Ebay. Ebay holds the money until the buyer confirms receipt to his/her satisfaction. So till now, whenever Ebay has said "your item is sold" it meant that the buyer has paid the money to Ebay. Otherwise, it cannot be sold.<br>

Under the rules of contract displayed here Ebay Guarantees payment to the seller when it says the item is "sold." But henceforth, I believe that "sold" will have a different meaning in Ebay. Pay Pal is much clearer. They say that something is sold only when the buyer has paid the money. If someone defaults PayPal withdraws money from their account and guarantees payment due and delivers. sp.</p>

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<p><em>This "totally crazy and impossibly arrogant" seller has 100% positive feedback for a couple hundred transactions.</em><br>

An afterthought for what it's worth - it would not surprise me if this ebay seller account is now being operated by a person other than the one who scored the good feedback record. As most people know, ebay is heavily biased towards buyers who buy from smaller sellers and will almost always find in favor of buyers in the case of disputes. (Ebay is equally heavily biased towards power sellers who generate big fees for ebay and will very often find in their favor against buyers). To offer items which are badly described and then be rude to potential buyers is not only unpleasant but spectacularly stupid from the seller's point of view - buyers will simply return items, it will cost the sellers money and the feedback will be all negative.</p>

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