Why upgrade my 30D if it's good enough for National Geographic?

Why oh why do so many threads degenerate into a contest between full frame and crop sensors? Can we not answer the OPs question without making this thread into the same old debate that continues to repeat itself over and over on PN? The best is the enemy of the good and IMO is so marginal in many cases that it takes a loupe to see it.

<p>Because apparently we all have to agree what a great shopper DLT is and how he made a better choice than anyone who likes their full frame camera. It is tiresome, but I kind of understand it a little. $1000 is a good amount of money and a lot of photographers wouldn't be able to see a difference, so they should save their money. But. come on, having to 'prove' your point is getting more than boring.</p>

<p>To the OP, nothing wrong with a 30D, keep taking photos that is what it is about. Don't think about it until the 30D dies.</p>

<p>why not to invest you money into another "cheap" body (used 5d or 40d) to complement with the other zoom or an emergency camera suche as the G12, very good indeed for street photos? Just think how the money can improve your chance to get some more good pictures and let the full vs crop debate out of your mind...my 2c opinion...</p>

<p>"The original 5D was a great body, but recommending it over a 7D is terrible advice. Why give up IQ and a warranty, to say nothing of all the other features? The used price would have to be darn good."<br>

Hmm. I've got an original 5D and a 7D. I like the 7D for sports, but for everything else I still prefer the 5D. I even prefer the image quality on the 5D; the images seem sharper when I pixel peep, and there's less noise. So I wouldn't turn my nose up at a used 5D.<br>

That said, I tend to agree with the people who are saying not to upgrade without a specific reason. I bought the 7D to replace a 20D, and really, as a practical matter, I don't get hugely better results from it than I did with the 20D, and the focusing system has a long learning curve. I can't tell the difference between the two just by looking at an image. Until I finally figured out how to work the focusing system, my initial unhappy feeling was that I had actually downgraded (the manual was pretty useless in that regard). That's not to say the 7D isn't a great camera; it's just that, for my uses, 20D is as well, and (again, for my uses) the 7D wasn't a huge improvement over what I already had. Different story, though, with the 5D. All the full-frame stuff, particularly with 50 mm lenses acting like 50 mm lenses and so forth, that was a big improvement. As always YMMV, which is the whole point.</p>

<p>Don't fix whats not broken. You are clearly at home with the 30D and the combination is working for you.<br>

A million amateur photographers would lose a keg to be recognised by NG. Congratulations.<br>

Spend the money on another lens instead.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Because apparently we all have to agree what a great shopper DLT is and how he made a better choice than anyone who likes their full frame camera. It is tiresome</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Matt,</p>

<p>Daniel didn't start the FF vs. Crop argument here, nor does he ever start it anywhere else - he merely reacts to balance the cliched, trite, predictable, unfounded "superior IQ" nonsense that the FF fanboys churn out at the slightest provocation...</p>

<p>Now <em>that's</em> tiresome.</p>

<p>First off, congratulations on National Geographic! To think I got excited when one of my Flickr photos was chosen for an online guide. :-) I can't really offer advice about your upgrade shot as a Rebel shooter (I like the light cameras and have small hands) but your comment about "a cosmic singnal to upgrade" made me smile. That's happened to me three times.</p>

<p>Several years ago I was laid off and wanted to take a $300 photography mini class, but didn't think I should spend the money in my situation. A couple of weeks later, I received an extra tax rebate that wound up being exactly $300. Despite the uneasiness of being laid off I did spend the money and take the class.</p>

<p>At that time I was shooting with an APS film Rebel (remember those?). The downward spiral of APS film made me want a new camera....even though there wasn't anything wrong with mine and it was only 2 years old. About a year later a colleague asked me to photograph his wedding...we never agreed on a price - I figured I'd be happy with whatever he gave me. When I received the check it happened to be just enough for the new camera body I'd had my eye on, plus a 50mm lens.</p>

<p>Two summers ago I bought a digital P&S for a trip to Italy, thinking I'd take it along with my film SLR. But I loved the convenience of digital, and rather on impulse (and unusual for me as I am more of a "saver" than a "spender") I bought a Rebel XSI. A few days later I was experiencing a bit of buyer's remorse - only because I'd spent a lot of money at that time on furniture, the P&S, the trip itself, etc. Just as I was pulling into my driveway I was wondering if I'd done the right thing, and what shows up in my mailbox? An overage check from my mortage...and the amount was just a bit more than what I'd paid for the camera! Kept it and haven't looked back.</p>

<p>Enjoy the check and if you don't upgrade now, you can always buy a plane ticket and go take more beautiful shots, or save the money until you're truly ready to upgrade!</p>

<p>Just to be clear my preference for full frame over a crop camera like the 30D is that I still love my old 35mm film camera. I regually switch back and forth between the two and if I were to go on a long vacation I would always take both. If I am ever somewhere I can't charge my batteries I will always have a couple rolls or old Kodak plus-x which I can develope myself in a dark bathroom if I had to.<br /><br />On my Canon ELAN 7NE I shoot with, I won't say cheap, I will say non Canon lenses with excellent results. I treat my Canon 5D Mark II the exact same way I do the ELAN 7NE. In many ways the old retired Canon 7NE is still better under certain circumstances. I love shooting film and making my Canon 5D mimick the rsults I get with various films using a product called Exposure by Alien Skin. Going back and forth between film and a crop sensored camera to me was too difficult if I wanted to compare, because I could not frame the subject exactly the same with both camera's using the same lens.<br /><br />Not to make this a digital vs film thing as much as 35mm (full Frame) being the standard and lenses being what they are not magnified. Like I said I still own a 30D which I keep as a backup but never use anymore and will probably sell on EBAY soon. I don't think you will see as much of a difference between a 7d and a 30D as you will see between a 5D2 and a 30D.<br>

<br />Also, are there mounts for Nikon and Leica primes for the 7D?</p>

<p>Your images are breathtaking! Unfortunately, many photographers will go broke trying to upgrade their cameras in order to produce images like yours! They will find out to their regret that the photographer's talents and the glass used are far more important than the body used...<br>

I shoot with both the 30D and the 40D and ask myself the same question... My answer is usually, "No, I don't need a body upgrade"! I will admit, that I enjoy shooting with my 40D a bit more than shooting with the 30D because of a few additional bells and whistles. I would also expect that I would enjoy shooting with a 7D even more. But, I DON'T NEED ONE! And I don't really think that my imagery would be improved greatly with the new camera.<br>

On the other hand... If you travel with a single body, I would suggest that a second body might be a good idea. I fell on an Alaskan slope and creamed my 40D. If I didn't have my 30D along with me, then I would have missed photographing that trip. A fellow tour member tripped on the uneven durface neat the City Walls of Xi'an, China. He did not have a second camera and missed a lot of photograpy. If you were getting a second body, the 7D would be the way to go!</p>

<p>Phil,<br>

I suggest keeping the 30D and looking for a used 5D (first generation) for the versatility of FF. I own both a 5D and 7D. I used the 5D more often for many reasons.</p>

<p>I'm still happily shooting with a 20d, though I wish the thing would wear out (maybe it will by the time the 11d+MarkVIII comes out).</p>

<p>Thanks for the replies...my cheque from Nat Geo has been cashed and I have thus far resisted upgrading the 30D. Had great results with it in Mali and Morocco so I am still resisting urge to upgrade though I do admit that i do look at the price of the 7D from time to time. I wonder what benefit a FF camera would bring considering I don't do too many landscapes. My lenses are suited for crop sensor and I'd have to buy a non-EFS wide lens and the 70-200 wouldn't be long enough... woe is me - ha ha. i'll probably stick to a crop sensor since I don't print many of my shots. While I see and recognize the benefits of FF I don't think they are that great for my uses.</p>

<p>As a postscript to this thread I'd like to add that I have finally replaced my 30D. Just last month I purchased a 5DIII and find that the improved focusing system allows me to get a significant larger number of keepers with moving objects (my cute little doggies). And it's significant improved low light level capabilities will help me too. </p>

<p>I have had the 5DIII for 2 years now and I find it has helped me immensely in lower light when compared to my 30D. I shoot up to 3200 ISO whereas I rarely went above 800 on the 30D. Through Flickr I am selling a few shots on Getty Images:<br>

http://www.gettyimages.ca/Search/Search.aspx?query=z.i.H4sIAAAAAAAEAH2T30vDMBDH06WtMvVFfffBN0HopsNHYaAiDBX8C7IudYN1Dcl--T_q36S5dLlchhgIvU-S-97lLs3k4vpp-P01umfZcy0-ZMIY69rJkh87WDs6rwv2z0j8t6ubZvkmtKhNx7vC7BVw5KpVOrGffPv-aR623jkh7JxEhdo7G3S4qEqMRYHDQuFC1cvgWS_TnX3aZoFmP5g3wRw4M7XCcxRBghiZBV1jCjEewFIPKHfrY9TYY-dWxSpVpFKgSrWnUsUqOvkbnUofVfSeSmBbRUlLKjktaQ-sI38WGuf6YGsiFa1QIC7HBnc8uMbIkAOxO9KQZbS5USEAgM_xHB3XZXBclz7tM-ACrVu03FXSRpNHh-S2xpJueXLJTDb4_BMP8LJSsyK3jYhLEfKjYG1FNxAyE6nFyLePo9AmC7ghNMnNgv_vLuw8VNPZfKaU9At5LfSscQ7HpmyUHK4WkzlpQbTqA15CnLti4K5tX-AqXJmSbRO5MoF0qttTbWk9wchf5EYa_GV_AZ_3xYyOBAAA<br>

The vast majority of them were taken with the 30D though.<br>

https://www.flickr.com/photos/phil_marion/sets/</p>