New Canon high MP cameras - press release

There is a press release on the Canon 5DS & 5DS R cameras on Canon Rumors.

<p>http://www.canonrumors.com/</p>

<p>Also news of the 11-24 f4L.</p>

<p>5 minutes ago <a href="http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/index.do">http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/index.do</a> had an announcement of a 50.6 MP camera, just a hadline without further text. Now it's gone :-) Will be back tomorrow.</p>

Apparently some question as to this being valid. My apologies...perhaps I should not have posted yet.

<p>The tension and suspense is bearable, somehow.</p>

 

<p>I think its real. Details may change. It's been kicking around for some time now.</p>

<p>For what it's worth, I'm a lot more interested in knowing whether Canon have fixed the dynamic range at low ISO compared with the Sony sensors than in the megapixel count. But then I have a D810 - though I used to be a Canon shooter once. I'm unlikely to have sensor envy unless they've done something about this - it's hard enough to max out a 36MP sensor in normal use.</p>

<p>It's valid, it's just early. I think the official release is supposed to be tomorrow, but people who maintain websites sometimes slip up and stuff gets made live until somebody notices it and yanks it back.</p>

<p>I seriously doubt that Canon has made changes that will improve the DR at the low end of the range, but it's possible. They'd have to change their basic fabrication technology and sensor design. I doubt they'd do that first in a high MP count sensor, but I could be wrong. Let's hope I am.</p>

<p>Also looks like an M3 mirrorless will be announced, though the M2 never even made it outside Japan. Presumably the M3 will?</p>

<p>Rumour has it that the sensor is made by Sony, based on Canon or Sony + Canon technology. Let's wait for the reviews to see how good it is. We might be in for a surprise.</p>

<p>I'll be buying a FF cam before the end of April, so I'm hoping these are as good as "advertised." Geared towards stills shooters, for a change.</p>

<p>If it does not have a simple and reliable mechanical mirror lock up feature and dynamic range to match top of the line Nikon gear then Canon is wasting their time and ours.</p>

<p>Based on European price info my guess is around $4200 for the 5Ds and $4500 for the 5Ds R. This takes into account that European prices are almost always higher than US prices.</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see who makes the sensor. There have been previous rumors that Canon might use a Sony sensor but use their own CFA (color filter array) in a high pixel count DSLR. If Canon are touting enhanced color accuracy via a new CFA (and that being the reason for the relatively low maxium ISO of 6400), then that would be consistent with the rumor. Lending more credence are the rumors of Sony themselves introducing a 50MP FF camera (mirrorless) sometime very soon.</p>

<p>I'd believe a Sony/Canon 50MP sensor before I'd believe a 100% Canon 50MP sensor with enhanced dynamic range.</p>

<p>Personally, better low DR at low ISO is a non-issue for me, as is a reliable mechanical mirror lock up. I don't think I have ever felt limited by dynamic range issues with the 5D or 6D. I also do not feel I need 50 MP. The only reason I could possibly want a camera like this is for duplicating my thousands of slides and (particularly) medium format shots taken over the decades. But that is quite a powerful reason. For general photography it holds little appeal, particularly at $3000 + which I assume will be its price.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>relatively low maxium ISO of 6400</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It is further expandable to 50-12800</p>

<p>I have one Canon 6D with a 100mm f2.8 L permanently welded to it for my close-ups and three Nikons DSLR 's for everything else. The big increase in megapixels does not interest me while better DR would but as a just for fun/ amateur photographer, such a high price increase would be a serious deterrent. </p>

<p>Bob - I've heard similar Sony rumours (or something about patent cross-licensing, which relates to why I suspect Canon haven't caught up in dynamic range already - though Nikon seem to have done okay with Toshiba et al. making alternative 24MP sensors). For Canon shooters' sake, I hope it's true. As Robin proves, for many people, having a lot of dynamic range available makes very little difference. For me, I've found it has saved photos in contrasty lighting conditions (when I've not had fill lighting options) on enough occasions that I'm completely dismissing Canon for my use (Magic Lantern aside) until this is fixed - though I currently own enough black glass that I'm not all that likely to jump back even if this is fixed, envy of a few lenses notwithstanding.<br />

<br />

As for megapixels, when I shot a D700 with a soft low-pass filter I had a little 5D2 envy (though the 5D2's AF system, not so much), and the D800 did call me. I do have a little more envy of the latest Canon AF systems, but I'm not sure that once we get over 20MP, it makes <i>that</i> much difference for most shooters who don't do a lot of cropping or produce huge prints - except that the crop resolution goes up. Of course, camera manufacturers should up the resolution every now and again because it allows people to see that they needed to upgrade their lenses after all. I bet Zeiss are rubbing their hands together.<br />

<br />

"Expandable ISO" has historically tended to mean "shoot at the nearest real ISO and then scale the result digitally". For ISO 50, that would mean the camera runs at ISO 100 and darkens the image by one stop digitally, throwing away one stop of shadow detail and gaining no highlight detail in the process. The reverse is true for ISO 12800 - it would actually be ISO 6400 with one stop of highlight detail thrown away, but nothing extra in the shadows. Assuming the same terminology applies, of course. It makes perfect sense in JPEG mode, but not so much in raw.<br />

<br />

I'm a little surprised that people aren't more excited - I was only lurking here to see what the reaction was. Of course, the Nikon crowd were very "we don't really want 36MP" when the D800 was launched, but that's because so many were/are hoping for a direct D700 replacement. I'll look forward to more tomorrow.</p>

<p>How short a time ago it was that Nikon and the others were pilloried for using inferior Sony sensors instead of making their own.<br>

Somehow, I just haven't seen or cared about how "inferior" the Canon sensors are in my work with their cameras.</p>

<p>If the differences are critical to <em>your</em> work, by all means do what some of the above have done-- switch platforms or use both.<br>

I do expect that those who follow such a strategy will be flipping from one platform to another fairly frequently, always seeking the latest thing. </p>

 

<p>Andrew is correct about expanded ISO settings. They are typically the result of firmware manipulations of the RAW data and as such suffer from drawbacks when compared to "native" ISO settings. Generally the ISO 50 setting has reduced dynamic range and is only useful where you want a large aperture in bright light and need ISO 50 to get the shutter speed down. Expanded ISO settings generally have excess noise. It's probably fair to say that the 5Ds® is not aimed at low light shooters. It's also probably fair to say that unless you are an addicted pixel peeper or you make poster sized prints and view them from close up, 50MP isn't going to make all <em>that</em> much difference over 22MP. It will however make enough difference for some people to want it (whether or not they really need it).</p>

<p>Does the average (or even above average) photographer need 50MP? The answer is surely no. I very much doubt that many 5D MkIII shooters have been begging for more MP. However there are probably some situations where more MP will help. If you have to shoot and crop for example. I think Canon's stated vision for the future has included a very high MP camera which would have a large zoom range via both cropping and optical zoom.</p>

<p>I shoot with the Sony RX-1 and the Canon 5D3. I know the Sony Exmor sensor well...there is a noticeable difference in shadows (detail with Sony sensor - and noise in Canon sensor). Also the Canon sensor is prone to color shifts when something is underexposed or shot at 1600iso in less than ideal light. In the Sony RX-1 under same conditions - I don't see the color shift at high iso. Dynamic range (DR) is better...</p>

<p>To me, the Canon sensor in the 5D3 is a generation behind the Sony Exmor. I see the difference.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Personally, better low DR at low ISO is a non-issue for me...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's interesting how personal needs are so widely variant. Since I most often find myself shooting in the midday sun, when DR demands are at their highest, low DR at low ISO is pretty much the <em>only</em> issue I have with either my 5DII or 7D.</p>

<p>I'm waiting for an EOS sensor that gives me the same DR as that of Kodak Ektar 100 film, but I daresay I may be waiting for a long, long time...</p>

<p>This Adorama ad just came into my inbox:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.adorama.com/pages/canon-5d-preorder-notify?emailprice=t&utm_source=rsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email020515NPA">http://www.adorama.com/pages/canon-5d-preorder-notify?emailprice=t&utm_source=rsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Email020515NPA</a></p>

<p>I wonder how they will handle noise as the ISO is turned up.</p>

<p>The price is lower than I anticipated.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>B&H has just come in with its ad.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>The Nikon D800/810 sensors have a pixel density of about 4.1666 mp/square cm. The pixel density on the Canon, by contrast, will be more along the order of 5.787 mp/square cm. (I'm not saying all those numbers after the decimals are significant.)</p>

<p>It will be interesting to see if Canon has taken additional measures to deal with noise. In any case, the pixel density is not really extremely high for either brand's high res cameras. (Nikon's crop sensor 24 mp cameras come in with a pixel density of about 6 mp/square cm, and those images are still pretty clean--although not as clean as those of the 6D.)</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>Some 5Ds sample images.</p>

<p>http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos5ds/</p>

Still the same DR as the old 5D3. Disappointing.