Cleaning Old Glass Bottles

I've been trying to research this independently but have had a hard time, so I'm trying this forum.

 

I inherited a few amber 1-gallon glass jars from the University's old B&W photography program but am having trouble getting rid of tough residual stains on some of them. Unfortunately some of them weren't marked or were marked ambiguously (i.e. "Developer" but not specifying whether it's for film or paper), but I know one is probably residual B&W developer and the other two contain fixer residue (the fixer residue flakes off but not all of it comes off).

 

Tried soaking them in plain water (hot and cold), then soapy water, for days and actually one I soaked for a month. Got a good deal out but still seeing some major gunk. I don't want to use any old cleaner in case there is a chemical reaction. I read some recommendations about vinegar but am hesitant to try it. Most of the cleaning advice involves using scrub brushes on easy to clean items like tanks and reels, but the gallon jugs are difficult to get anything into, the openings are too narrow for bottle brushes (which are too gentle and don't

scrub hard enough) and I've been jerry-rigging all kinds of cleaning devices in vain.

 

Does anyone have experience with this?

 

+One more quick thing - does anyone sell replacement bottle caps for these bottles? One of the caps broke, and

the others are either very stained or the paper part is deteriorating on the inside. This is the type of bottle I have, but a couple lack handles and the caps are black: http://www.yankeecontainers.com/c/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/glass-pharm-jug-with-cap-1024x768.jpg

I browsed that website but I want to be pretty sure I'm buying the right caps, also they are wholesale and I only need maybe 5 so not sure where to get them retail.

 

Thank you.

- J.

<p>A harder grade bottle brush can be found that along with some detergent should work. As for Vinegar I would not worry also CLR cleaner or even OXY clean should work even along with a soft bottle brush.</p>

<p>The OXY clean is a form Hydrogen Peroxide. Where the CLR is a rust and hard water remover.</p>

<p>If you can get a steam hose down in the bottles that might loosen up the gunk.</p>

I will try both of these options to see if either works...

 

Also having a really hard time finding replacement bottle caps or lid liners for retail, I only see a lot of wholesale options... it looks like the type of cap I need is a 38-430 bottle cap (38mm) but it has to be a little taller than some of the search results that show up. If anyone knows where to buy just a few of these at a retail price, please let me know.

The cleansers Larry suggested should work fine.

White distilled vinegar, oxygenated bleaches, or

CLR.

 

There may be a few exceptions.

 

Silver stains from bottles used for recycled

fixer may be cleaned with potassium ferrocyanide

or ferricyanide (Google for Farmer's Reducer and

Prussian Blue for more info).

 

Avoid acids any stronger than household grade

distilled white vinegar. One of the very few

risks associated with Farmer's Reducer is contact

with strong acid - cyanide gas may result.

<p>Not so long ago, I bought a real Nikor tank (116 size) with original instructions.<br>

The instructions are also listed here: http://kcbx.net/~mhd/2photo/film/develop/devtank.htm<br>

They recommend overnight in 25% nitric acid for cleaning. Yes that is much stronger than vinegar.<br>

I haven't done that, but then I don't tend to get my tank and reel that dirty.</p>

<p>The favorite solution for cleaning chemical laboratory glassware is Nochromix:<br>

http://godax.com/<br>

That is mixed with sulfuric acid, which, if no other dilution is mentioned in a chemistry lab context, usually means concentrated the way it comes from the factory (98%).<br>

Use directions are here: http://godax.com/NOCHROMIX_Directions_for_use.pdf<br>

Interesting that they have a warning about silver salts, and that you should rinse before using in that case.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Also removing fixer may mean soaking it in strong fixer. Dissolve..</p>

<p>Are you attached to these particular jugs? If not, just pitch them. Then go to your university's chemistry department and see if anyone has some empty solvent jugs you could have, complete with caps. Tell them what it's for, and someone may be able to help. </p>

<p>My developer stock bottles are incidentally just one-liter Nalgene bottles, which were cast-offs from a lab. You could get those retail for a few bucks. I keep fixer in two-liter soda bottles.</p>

<p>A good strong mix of caustic soda with boiling water will clean just about anything. If the bottles are made from glass or ceramic you have nothing to worry about. Just don't breathe in the fumes or your lungs will dissolve!</p>

<p>With gallon bottles, for wine production, I've always had good results with hot water with a good dash of bleach, followed by thorough rinsing. Never had signif issues with my darkroom bottles, but bleach would likely work fine there too, unless something's really crusted on.</p>

<p>If you don't have too many bottles and want to save a lot of time and effort (and maybe some money for cleaning supplies), just toss them in the recycling bin.<br>

<br />If you have a local bottle supplier, you can probably purchase 1 gal (4 liter) amber glass jugs (with handles) $3.00 each (or a little less for bottles). Depending on the manufacturer, the caps may be sold separately.</p>

The best would be to use chromic acid i.e. potassium dichromate aaded to 98% sulphuric acid, but it is very hazardous indeed

and not recommended for non-chemists. How about making a slurry of coarse sand in water in the bottles and then giving

them a good shake by rolling them on a soft surface like a towel? The abrasive action of the sand should do the trick.

<p>Yes, the whole idea behind Nochromix is that it is as good as chromic acid, but no dichromate.<br>

It still needs the 98% sulfuric acid, though, so probably still best for experienced chemists.<br>

I have had a few times now, rapid fixer plate out silver on the bottle. I think it is due to pH change as it ages, even if it isn't used all that much. Sometimes it is easy to get out, sometimes not.</p>

 

<p>One gallon glass jars are heavy and when they are full they are very heavy and potentially dangerous.</p>

<p>There is a contrary philosophy for darkroom bottles which bans glass from darkrooms. Dropping a slippery (developer leaks are slippery) gallon bottle means a major glass smash and a spill emergency. Developer dies through oxidation in a bottle that contains significant air space. A gallon bottle always has hurtful air space unless you use and discard developer in one gallon batches or use up smaller batches very quickly.</p>

<p>A possible alternative storage paradigm for photography processing solutions is many small plastic bottles that are full to the top except for the one in immediate use; no oxidation, no breakage hazard, no spill disasters.</p>

In one bottle in particular, the chemical residue is pretty gunked on there and I'm still having a hard time cleaning it. Vinegar didn't work for it and potentially dangerous chemicals are probably out of the question...

 

I had a thought which was - what if I just fill it up to the gunky level with actual fixer and maybe the new chemical will slowly dissolve the old? The gunk level is not too high, it would only be a small waste of fixer I suppose.

 

Also about the glass - wouldn't a plastic gallon bottle also have a lot of air space? I also read in several places that plastic is more permeable to oxygen than glass (if glass is at all). If it's thinner plastic, like with those cheap plastic gallon jugs, maybe you could squeeze a little air out of it but then it would seem the oxygen permeability would be greater than with a thicker plastic bottle. I'm pretty careful and have been using 3 other glass jugs for developing chemicals and I pour in a large plastic sink so the risk of dropping it is not as high as it would be, say with a bunch of students in a shared darkroom. I'm just trying to shave a few dollars off my budget here and there as I am already spending so much outfitting this darkroom. Any more cleaning suggestions would be great, thank you!

Hi Larry, I just somehow saw your suggestion about using new fixer to dissolve old fixer! I missed it the first time around. I think as a last resort I will definitely try this. Thanks!

<p>http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/23342404<br>

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/95726-fixer-bottle-stains.html</p>

<p>How much do you get paid? Even if it's minimum wage the amount of time you've already put into this is more than the cost of a brand new plastic photo chemical bottle. And if you put $10 worth of chemicals into one of these bottles and it gets contaminated and has to be tossed, you've also spent more than the cost of a new bottle. Trash them and move on.</p>

I have a few other suggestions. There is a paint mixing rod which attaches to an electric drill. It might spin the liquid around

enough to get things clean. There are many online brewery supply stores. I use dark swing top bottles for storing film

developer. The supply stores have the bottles and also replacement rubber washers. The older Grolsch beer bottles have

swing tops and held just over 16 oz. The bottles were later redesigned to have a flatter look and no longer hold as much. You

sometimes see the old bottles in restaurants being used to hold salad dressing. More than ten years ago a small camera store

in the town we used to live in was closing. I bought a magnetic mixer for only a few dollars. It's very handy for mixing

powdered chemicals. I just had to find some coated magnets before I could use it. If you adjust the speed properly this set-up

can be used to clean old bottles. At a slow speed the coated magnet will bounce around and at a faster speed the water or

other cleaning liquid will eventually dissolve the gunk.

Just a thought, I use mt 2 liter soda bottles. Some are green but I don't know if that makes a big difference. The cap

lasts a long time with no paper attempting to seal. This type of bottle is also available is different capacities., They are

very easy to clean. I just finished using the last of D-76 stock that I mixed up in 2012 and it worked just fine.

 

Haven't used glass bottles in decades and when I did they were a PITA.