Cheap way of starting out with 8 x 10?

<p>Hi guys,</p>

<p>I am an experienced photographer but have never shot large format. I fancy having a go at shooting 8x10 and contact printing the negatives for super sharp prints.</p>

<p>What's the most economical way of getting started and what do I need?</p>

<p>I know I need a lens and some sort of wooden box cam but what else? Do I need film holders, rails, bellows and other stuff? I just want the basics, enough to take shots of landscapes etc.</p>

<p>Dummy advice appreciated.</p>

 

<p>Cheap ends as soon as you buy the film! Renting equipment to get a feel for it might be a good idea, although with Calumet gone there's less places to do that.<br>

Economical generally means not worrying about the camera being heavy. Old studio monorails can be cheap, as can some old wood cameras.<br>

Wise shopping at APUG.org, www.largeformatphotography.info, and eBay is part of the key. First two sites also are great sources for learning.</p>

<p>You will certainly need a film holder of some kind, but you also need to think about how you are going to get your images processed.</p>

<p>The simplest and probably the cheapest way, assuming you already have a wet darkroom, to get started is to use direct positive paper instead of film - no need for tanks and printing frames, but your camera shot is a one off original (shades of Daguerre!)</p>

<p>This is a link in the UK for a supplier - it is made by Ilford in Switzerland to a German formula, and should be available near you from your local Ilford supplier. http://www.mrcad.co.uk/CarouselProductView.ink?Row_ID=515742&manufacturer=Maco&pcategory=150&pcode=MC515742&subcategory=916</p>

<p>If you want to go for film you need a developing tank and a contact frame in addition.</p>

<p>If you want to use commercial processing you need to have an empty film box to transport exposed film in and a reasonably local processor - not so easy to find today.</p>

<p>Nick</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If you're shooting B&W then film, especially, large format, can be "relatively" economical. But for color the cost of processing plus film gets expensive very fast.</p>

<p>So assuming B&W film, there many places that sell it, Freestyle being a good place to start, though sometimes you can find it even cheaper on eBay. Then you need chemistry, processing trays, a closeline for hanging the film up to dry, a contact printing frame and a light. </p>

<p>eBay is also a good place to find 8x10 camera bodies, and if you're shooting indoors then any cheap copy type lens in the 400mm+ range without a shutter (you use the lens cap for a shutter) should cover the format.</p>

<p>But before you buy anything, a lot or reading and research is in order. As long as you're willing to do that you should be fine. </p>

 

<p>I never tried 18x10" - Flim price seems "scary" to me, not to mention that even BW seems harder to process at home than smaller formats (I consider it unlikely to have a really dark dark room to handle film in). I got some old tourist / traveliers' field camera in 13x18cm that was butchered to accept tin plate holders (from the 1920s or30s?) with film sheets pretty cheap on ebay. It came with bag holders and a in front of the lens shutter without any times, just B. The bellows seems tight & going strong and it offers at least lens shifting, movements wise. The entire kit was maybe 120 euro? or even less I don't remember.<br>

Hunting down such a kit makes economically (and practically considering the bulk you'll have to carry later) more sense than building from scratch.<br>

I wouldn't try a box camera since it might a) be bulky and b) leave you with a fucusing challenge. </p>

<p>Thanks guys,</p>

<p>I'm in the trade so getting hold of 8x10 film isn't a problem. It was the actual camera and lens that I was wondering about. I suppose the best way to learn would be to try and get my hands on an 8x10 camera and see how they're put together. I know the cameras are basically a wooden box and the shutter is in the lens... it's how the film is loaded, inserted and removed that interests me. Now wondering if I can find a Youtube vid with a demo...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The film is loaded just like 4x5--just larger.<br>

<p>One of the several books on large format or view camera photography might be more valuable than mere videos. Book publishers are more selective and professional than Youtube. The information is usually more comprehensive and better organized. However, a few operations may be better presented in a video. John Shriver's suggestions in the first reply are accurate. For large format, knowledge is cheaper than equipment and film. Spending time learning about the subject is more practical than spending money without knowledge. When you understand all of the options available in large format photography, a few hundred dollars might get you started in 8x10 images that at best would be only slightly better than those printed from smaller cameras. You could also spend a few thousand, and have gained no more.</p>

<p>"I know the cameras are basically a wooden box"<br /><br />That description conjures up the image of a giant box Brownie. Most 8x10 cameras are view cameras. And a view camera consists of a front standard to hold the lens and a rear standard to hold the groundglass and film holder. Holding it all together can be either a metal rail or, in the case of field cameras, a wooden bed. Field cameras are often made of wood and do fold up into a sort of box. <br /><br />8x10 view cameras operate essentially the same as a 4x5 view camera.<br /><br />I recently searched used 8x10 view cameras online and found cameras anywhere between about $350 and $2,000 and lenses from about $200-300 on up. <br /><br />To me the biggest catch about 8x10 is that you are pretty much limited to contact prints since 8x10 enlargers are few and far between. 4x5 enlargers are available everyday so you get the advantages of large format without the limitations of contact printing. But an 8x10 contact print does have a magical quality to it that could be a lot of fun.<br /><br />As others have said, 8x10 and cheap don't go in the same sentence. Even if somebody gave you all the gear, be sure to look up film prices before you do anything. And unless you are independently wealthy, don't even think about color.</p>

<p>X-Ray film? <br>

After Camera, Lens and film holders, film and its processing is the recurring cost.</p>

<p>In the late 1990s, I used to get 8x10 Ultra Sound and Nuclear-Medicine film from a clinic and process it in their darkroom processor. The chemistry was compatable with Tri-X as well.</p>

<p>In Houston, the only lab left that will process large format sheet film is Aker (formally A-Z).</p>

<p>Thanks again guys, I've learned a lot already. Film and processing costs don't worry me. I would only be doing black and white and I can get the film relatively cheaply. I would also be processing the negs myself.</p>

<p>Thanks for the tip about the lack of 8x10 enlargers. I suppose making sure I get the right view camera and lens at the right price is the key. I will do some more research. Thank you so much for your help. </p>

<p>Look at the Calument 'green monster' 8x10 metal view camera. Low cost and works well. Not the lightest but many have used them with great success.<br>

One lens to start. A few film holders - the older wood holders in decent condition and light tight still work well.<br>

Cable release, dark cloth and light meter. A decent tripod to hold the weight. Maybe a loupe for help with focusing.<br>

You can tray process in the dark and contact print. Really quite simple</p>

<p>Regarding the 8x10 enlarger, some folks have used a view camera as an enlarger. Searching the large format forum will turn up experience for this (if at some future time you decide to give it a whirl and spend the time and money). Also some have converted 4x5 enlargers to 8x10; LFF searches are useful here too. That forum is free and provides a veritable library of info to study up on the subject (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/). Scroll down to near bottom of the page and find the link to the forum.</p>

<p>The cheap way would be to start with 4x5. After all, an 8x10" print from 4x5 is only 2x magnification. That is like making a 2 x 3" print from 35mm or a 4.5 x 4.5 from 6x6cm. </p>

<p>The Kodak 2D, Ansco Universal, and Burk & James are likely the lowest priced woodies you'll find and are very capable cameras. Leaky bellows will cost you $$ so be careful checking them out.<br>

You'll need a tripod that can support the weight. You might find an old surveyor's that you can rig up with a 1/4-20 thread.<br>

You'll need film holders---at least 3, Figure $50 a piece for used.<br>

A focusing cloth, which is pretty basic---even a back sweat shirt will work in a pinch.<br>

A focusing loupe (the ubiquitous 9x Agfa works)<br>

A light meter, unless your good at eyeballing the light.<br>

You'll want a shuttered lens mounted on a lens board. With wood camers, you can make your own lens board (or encourage the local high school wood shop teacher with a box of Krispy Cremes to make you a couple!) Look for 9-1/2" (240mm) to 14" (360mm) for a "normal" lens that will cover 8x10. Wollensak triple convertibles are way underpriced for a versatility they offer.<br>

Probably the first thing you should get is a good book---Simmons <em>Using The View Camera </em>will explain all you need to know.</p>

 

<p>Oops! Double post.</p>