Do I unwrap my M4-P ?

<p>Hi All,<br>

I've just bought a 1913-1983 M4-P, still sealed in it's original plastic bag.<br>

I'd love to open and use it, but am not sure whether it would function mechanically, after 30 years of sitting around doing nothing?<br>

Does anyone have any experience with this situation?<br>

Could using it be terminal or would it eventually run in?<br>

Any advice would be very welcome !</p>

<p>These things were meant to be used - which I assume is why you bought it. The only way you will know if it needs some TLC attention is by unwrapping it and trying it. Either everything works fine and it needs no further attention, or it doesn't. What's the difference between sending it in directly for a CLA or trying it and determining it needs a CLA - other than the cost?</p>

<p>If it were mine, and I hadn't spent a mint on it (relatively, as always in Leica terms), I'd sell it to a <em>collector</em> who wants "new in box, never opened" and get myself a lovely, already "pre-owned M4-P" to use. I personally just don't get those people who buy things like old comic books in sealed cases, but I do recognize that this means a likely big difference in the cash price of the object. Note that I say "price," not "value," which is not the same thing.</p>

<p>I'm personally looking for a user Leica camera still, but have managed to get it down to either the M3 or M4 group. The "significant moment" in the history of the rangefinder has to be the M3, but I have a feeling I'd actually get more use out of one of the later 4 models.</p>

Thanks both, I appreciate your opinions.

My head says 'sell it to someone who want's a collector item' for a higher price, and buy a pre-owned user.

My heart says 'open it and use it'

It is a cost thing. Although, never knowing if it worked or not would haunt me!!!

Worst thing would be to buy another one, and find it need work anyway!

Unless you're hard-up for money, I'd say open it up and savour being the first to use it.

<p>I'd say--if you're NOT hard up for the money--put it on the shelf in its bag and go buy a user--never opened stuff is hard to find, and once you DO open it--bye-bye unopened...<br />Paul</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I've just bought a 1913-1983 M4-P</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Is that the chrome 70th Anniversary edition of which 2500 were made? It appears to be from the "1913-1983" label. The M4-P had a 23,180 unit production run, of which only 500 were chrome (of course not counting the special editions). If indeed the case, then what I would do depends on what you paid for it. If within the normal M4-P price range, then I would NOT open it. If you already paid a premium, then the choice is harder - wait another 20 years and hope to make a profit or open it now and enjoy a piece of history? FWIW, I don't know if this special edition even has a premium price associated with it - I just assume that it does.<br /> <br /> Here's more info about that particular special edition as well as some matching meter, lenses etc. <a href="https://cameraquest.com/lmp70.htm">https://cameraquest.com/lmp70.htm</a></p>

<p>From my limited experience with Leica rangefinders, I would not expect a camera that has sat unused for 30+ years to be functional but to need a CLA to be usable. Hence, leaving it in the bag puts the burden on a potential buyer - if you open it, then you may have to spend some money on it. Chances are, that the camera will remain sealed and never gets to be put to the use it was intended for. That is assuming that the intended use of a Leica is taking pictures and not be a collectors' item that sits out its time in a display case.</p>

<p>If I were you, I'd sell the unwrapped one to a collector, get a recently CLA'ed example for much less money. With the money left over, get a lens or two, and pay for film.</p>

<p>Do not open it unless you like losing lots of money. There are a lot of fully functional beaters out there for real photography. Once you do open it, you'll likely find that it has gummed up from disuse anyway. The Japanese are famous for entombing cameras in these plastic mausoleums. They'll probably buy it from you eagerly.</p>

<p>It's come this far "wrapped up", so remember the adage: <strong>"It's only original once"</strong><br>

Or in this case, it's only factory sealed once...</p>

<p>Well, if you ever want to use it, you will need to unwrap it won't you? But, I really think JDM's advice is soundest. Right now it has extra value to a collector though that model isn't necessarily one that collectors seek, but yeah, sell it and get a good clean user, you'll be ahead of the game, depending on what you paid for it now.</p>

<p>You clearly have a very important camera in Leica (and Midland Leitz) history (despite the value most collectors may put on it). There are apparently only 500 of this issue (at the questionable closing of the Midland plant, source of many truly great products) and having it in a factory sealed bag probably reduces that number greatly. I say "regrettable" for the same reason Gandy does - Leitz sold and the buyer did extremely well with Canada Leitz designed military objectives and most of the then employees chose to go with the new owner).</p>

<p>I agree with others that you would likely be better leaving it as is and finding a user or other mint M4-P but not special issue M4-P. I did buy an M4-P (some years after regrettably selling my M4-2) but just a regular black model. It was ostensibly unused (like new) and I needed only exercise the slow speeds over a few days until they came back to normal. It works beautifully as my film camera but may need a CLA someday.</p>

<p>However, your camera is special and I believe worth keeping in its original factory wrap until you find someone (collector) wiling to purchase it at a good price. The 1913-83 special issue is of historical importance for Leitz and not just for the 70 years.</p>

<p>If you sell it to a collector you should get a good price. Whether or not that will be substantially more than you paid for it, we do not know. If you opt to use it, you cannot hope to sell it to a collector in quite the same way. I'd say that Dieter is right: the lubricants in the unused camera are likely to have gummed up, making it unusable. I might point out, because you raised the matter, that any Leica you buy may need a "CLA" unless there is evidence that it has had one recently.</p>

I would get the box x-rayed first. Just in case...

Thanks for all your comments and advice.

It's all been very useful and thought provoking.

I have decided to leave it sealed. With it being limited edition, albeit not that sought after, I imagine it will become

increasingly rare as time goes by.

I didn't pay that much for it, so may just shelve it for a while.

I have a 1936 III that I had CLA'd a few years ago to play with, while I save for another :)

<p>Nick, I think that's wise. I hadn't connected that this was a "commemorative" version, which makes it all the more foolish to open it and use it after it has lasted so long in the original box and all.</p>

<p>I'd definitely look online to see what it's going for. Is there any Leica gear, especially special issue stuff, that is not "that sought after"? That's news to me, if so. I'd go for Japan or Germany eBay if I were considering selling it.</p>

<p>You have any hint how it was stored?<br>

If it was in controlled conditions, never above say 25ºC, I'd bet it would be up and running right away.<br>

Cotton gloves recommended.<br>

You could always sell it "Mint, no film inserted ever"<br>

Once I had exactly this edition, like new, from Westlicht in the early 90s,<br>

it was an auction system with first, second and third choice at a given price,<br>

if I remember right. It was not my first choice.<br>

I remember it was very sturdy and still before breakin' in, had the quality feel of an item which was assembled especially carefully and so on, velvet gloves demanding,<br>

but at that time I was sold on black bodies, and I passed it on.<br>

BTW Is this factory seal really that foolproof? Isn't it only a plastic bag without any special branding? Could have a factory puncture or whatever, like an old condom...<br>

Who cares of this detail, if it is really mint? Goatskin gloves?<br>

Touch her! <br>

JMTCs</p>

 

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>It's come this far "wrapped up", so remember the adage: <strong>"It's only original once"</strong><br />Or in this case, it's only factory sealed once...</p>

</blockquote>

 

 

Yeah I have a sealed Joan Baez vinyl album I feel that way about.

 

<p>It's not going to work if you don't open it.</p>

<p>Put a motor or winder on it: go out and use it. A couple of grand is nothing compared to the thrill of using it IMHO.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>It's only original once.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Exactly. Think how many times it could be useful. Life is short. Use the darn thing. (Or give it to me to use.)</p>

I think I need to sell it quite quickly, just to get rid of the temptation !!

 

The seal is just clear plastic with no markings, but you can tell its original.

 

It has all the documentation, sticker, the 1913 & 1983 postcards of Wetzler etc.

<p>you could open it and put the 'unboxing' film on youtube. For some reason people love this. Or to be precise men do. </p>