Modern marriage in Canada (North America)

<p>CBC has a documentary online on modern marriages in Canada, unfortunately it's only available for online viewing in Canada but the description on the page provides a good summary: <br>

<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/thoroughly-modern-marriage">http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/thoroughly-modern-marriage</a></p>

<p>The documentary probably reflects a societal trend across North America in describing the decline in marriages as a consequence of many modern couples' choices, and economics is no less a factor than any other. One psychologist asks:<br>

<em>"The question isn't why so few people are getting married. It's why are so many getting married. Is it because they don't realize they don't have to?" </em></p>

<p>What are your views on this, the impact on the next generation, and how do you think the trend will affect the future of wedding photography? <br>

</p>

<p>Hi Michael, for some reason people are still placed under the most ridiculous social pressure to get married. Although better than it was 30 years ago, most relationships are still considered almost invalid unless the participants have been through a marriage ceremony. So although there has been a decline in marriage (there are at least some people wisely waking up to the fact that it isn't mandatory) I don't think there is going to be any crash in marriage numbers and we will still see plenty of brides and grooms in decades to come. I don't think it's going to have a huge impact on wedding photographers, at least not in our lifetime.</p>

<p>Speaking personally, I cannot see the mentality in spending huge sums of money on one day - whilst there are some economic and tax advantages to marriage, the rest of the rationale is hard to fathom. You do not need to go through that charade in order to make a commitment to someone. There is no longer any particular stigma attached to having a family "out of wedlock" nor is there anything wrong with living together. There is also ample evidence to suggest that marriage is not always an emotionally healthy arrangement and the demise of around half of all marriages in the Western world does support that. But centuries of pressure and conditioning are hard to shake off.</p>

I think a pair of people can avoid the singlehood tax under "common law marriage" in USA ...

. . . w a i t . . .

... see section "Considered Married" in IRS Publication 17, http://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch02.html#en_US_2013_publink1000170745.

<p>Hi Micheal. I've been tracking the downward trend in getting married, and subsequent fall off of traditional weddings for a while now.</p>

<p>The effect of this is already impacting wedding photography, especially as a career able to be sustained financially. Smaller pie with more photographers trying to get their piece. As a result, more and more less experienced and less responsible people are shooting weddings for less and less money … the math on that isn't hard to figure out.</p>

<p>One report I read indicated that couples are waiting longer, getting married later in life, and tending to pay for the wedding themselves rather than the tradition of the Bride's parents footing the bill ( tradition that probably has to do with an archaic throwback to Dowery Rights). </p>

<p>Many now get married when their careers or financial situation are more stable and mature, and they want to then start a family.</p>

<p>I've noted some exceptions to this trend, mostly from people with more traditional backgrounds, like second generation off-spring of immigrants, and ethnic groups with strong family associations and tight social ties.</p>

<p>As to the cynical reflections on Marriage as an institution, my observations are that a least some of this has come from the self absorbed and entitled generations who think societal ties are something one does by posting on a social site rather than actually interacting with-in a society. </p>

<p>Weddings are more than just two people blending their lives, it is one of the few remaining "gathering of the clan" events in life. The photography became important because it recorded the families and marked those family ties. Where the family community came together to help the new couple get a start in life via money and gifts.</p>

<p>Marc </p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Marc said:<strong> "As to the cynical reflections on Marriage as an institution, my observations are that a least some of this has come from the self absorbed and entitled generations who think societal ties are something one does by posting on a social site rather than actually interacting with-in a society."</strong><br>

<br>

That is clearly aimed at me. <br>

<br>

What a indictment of people who simply have a different view to your own - one that may well be based on reality rather than rose tinted idealism. Marc - not everybody comes from a close background, or has a close family, or has parents with a stable marriage, or blindly upholds traditional values which often fit poorly with the world we live in today. We know very well that around half of all marriages will fail - that is a simple fact. <br>

<br>

I will also add that you don't need to go through the stress and expense of a wedding in order to make a commitment to someone. Just because a wedding ring is absent doesn't mean that a given individual spends all of their time on Facebook and is therefore socially irresponsible as you clearly suggest. Nor is it mandatory to to be married before founding a family. These days the cost of living is arguably higher than it used to be and so more and more couples (and if applicable their families) would rather put that money towards a home, or necessities. Your judgement has a righteous ring to it which is quite unnecessary.<br>

<br>

</p>

<p>Thanks for your thoughts, guys. </p>

<p>I never thought to look on Wikipedia - their article on weddings in the U.S. was a real eyeopener:<br>

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_industry_in_the_United_States">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedding_industry_in_the_United_States</a></p>

<p>Not surprisingly the industry is big business totaling $40B annually so big money is still being spent, and if you divide that by the number of weddings, 2.5 million annually, it averages $16K per wedding although the article says it's more like $28.4K which probably accounts for the high numbers of budget weddings. </p>

<p>Still, that's 2.5 million annual weddings, or 1.4 million if you divide $40B by the average of $28.4K per wedding. It means there's still work for photographers regardless of how one fudges the math. </p>

<p>For fun, and many assumptions follow - if we assume 10 weddings per year for the average working wedding photographer, that's about 140,000 working wedding photographers in the U.S. shooting $28,000 weddings, and for comparison, there were 1,225,452 licensed attorneys in the United States in 2011. </p>

<p>Interestingly, the divorce rate hovers around 900,000 annually (or about 40% of marriage rate). <br>

<a href="http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/marriage_divorce_tables.htm">http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/marriage_divorce_tables.htm</a></p>

<p>It seems quite clear that there's just no money to be made on budget weddings for photographers, and to make any meaningful money a photographer will need to target $20,000+ weddings with corresponding skills to match. </p>

<p>I have no idea why Marc chose to take a personal swipe at me, but I am quite sure he will understand why a response was in order.</p>

<p>Michael, I would disagree with the view that there is no money to be made on budget weddings. A great many photographers can leverage this end of the market quite effectively. The service is a low investment one and generally the standard of the photography can be anything from poor to quite good, which the client will generally expect and understand. The product itself is most usually a collection of photographs with only very basic edits which are then burned to digital media and everything can be done and dusted in a few hours - no viewings, no album design etc.</p>

<p>I know some excellent and fairly expensive wedding photographers who are running at a loss simply because the time investment and product investment is too high when placed against the number of clients they can realistically take on - which may mean their pricing needs to be higher, or their product reduced somewhat. Handing over the kitchen sink can be costly. In other words, ensuring there is balance between time and product is key.</p>

<p>Whilst the number of people getting married has dropped as a percentage of the whole, the population has probably grown somewhat in the last couple of decades so perhaps overall numbers of couples getting married may not have changed much. In that regard, I don't think there's any significant shortage of couples. But what I have seen couples who are spending less which I think is due to the higher cost of living nowadays.</p>

<p> . . . "cynicism" is not the domain of Lindsay alone, which is why I did not address her directly. It has become somewhat commonplace on a number of wedding boards I participate in. I probably should have indicated that. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion. </p>

<p>However, I find it odd that people who make a living photographing weddings would call the event a "charade". </p>

<p>Anecdotally, most of the weddings I photograph are performed in a church or done by a religious officiant. The religious underpinnings are hardly seen as superfluous to those who espouse such beliefs. Most are emotionally moving events and adhere to time honored beliefs held dear by many.</p>

<p>So, the question is not specific to an individual, but to the many … and is likely to differ depending on what geographical area you may be in, and what social/economic groups you may cater to. </p>

<p>What is clear by the statistics is that wedding photography itself is on the decline as a viable financial endeavor. While one can do it, it is now much harder. The average price of wedding photography has not increased in many years, while the cost of doing business and the cost of living has increased dramatically.</p>

<p>If one is okay with shoot and burn, doing minimal craftsmanship, minimum of time invested, I'm sure one can make some money … however, that is the most hotly contested area of wedding photography today … there are many more willing to do that then invest the time and skill to do something above and beyond. Meanwhile the actual raw numbers of weddings to photograph is declining because the population growth has slowed amongst the groups most likely to have a traditional ceremony and reception. </p>

<p>One thing I've learned in all my years of doing this is that a $1,200 wedding client can, and often is, just as demanding as a $4,000 client. They may say "they understand they get what they pay for", but after the fact is a whole different matter. </p>

<p>If you track the Brides that come complain on sites like this and ask for help … it is rarely a top end shooter, but more likely an el-chepo shoot and burn photographer.</p>

<p>I just spent over a week "fixing" a "shoot and burn" set of images that I was just barely able to eek out 100 images to enable me to design an album. Never saw so many out-of focus and badly exposed shots. </p>

<p>- Marc </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Marc, can I respectfully ask you not to label me (as cynical) - you know nothing about me and I would not take it upon myself to chastise you for your own thoughts and opinions.</p>

<p>The figures are irrefutable, we know that around half of Western marriages will fail - that is not cynicism, that is a fact. We can go on to consider the reasons why they might fail, it isn't rocket science.</p>

<p>I know an awful lot of wedding photographers and a great many of them will agree that a sizeable proportion of the weddings they are involved with could most certainly fall into the "charade" category. We will at times wonder what on earth has brought those couples together and we can also wonder how long things might last. Once again, this is supported by statistics. If the weddings you photograph are exempt from failure then I will not argue with you, but it is not always the case. I will also add that one does not have to be an all-out supporter of marriage in order to photograph weddings - any more than you need to be a parent in order to successfully photograph children, or affiliated to a given group in order to undertake a commission for them.</p>

<p>If not poorly matched, many couples are clearly overspending on their event and some of those will then seek to find ways to claw back that expenditure - of course that is a charade. It is not (and should not be) a requirement that a couple hosts a lavish bash beyond their means in order to enter into a formal partnership. You'll see over expenditure across the socio-economic board.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Sorry for continuing the discussion.</p>

<p>Lindsay, I simply suggest you look up the definition of "Cynical", then reread your posts.</p>

<p>Good bye.</p>

<p>- Marc</p>

<p><blockquote> MODERATOR COMMENT</blockquote><br></p>

<p>This conversation has a potential to implode and that result would not reflect well.<br>

A previous Moderator's Comment and references to that have been removed and the remainder of the thread remains “as written” and this thread is now closed.</p>