Lost Important Images

<p>To start, I want to say, I have an absolutely amazing photographer that shot our wedding! Her personality meshes so well with my husband and I, she takes beautiful photos, and she is very professional.<br>

Now for my scenario. Our photographer and a 2nd shooter shot our wedding photos, most of the time they were working together and both took pictures of our poses and very many other pictures. We were paying hourly, according to the contract, and they definitely fulfilled. Providing all the time and attention we asked for. The only time the 2 weren't working together was when our hired photographer was outside taking pictures with the girls and I, and the 2nd photographer was inside getting pictures with the groom, his mother, groom with bridal party, groom with my mother, groom with flower girl and ring bearer, groomsmen getting ready, and some of the groom alone. </p>

<p>Our photographer called this morning, as we are supposed to meet so I can pay her for the extra hours and receive our photos. She informed me that the 2nd photographer had an issue with her SD card and that most of the pictures were corrupt and could not be downloaded. She took the SD card to a specialist to see if they could recover our pictures and they had no luck either. She felt awful, and I understand these things happen, and I did not want to make her feel worse. She said she had never had this problem before for a wedding and it was a horrible situation as we can't get this back. If it were anything other than a wedding a reshoot would be an easy fix. Thankfully, as they worked together most of the time, my photographer was still able to get some very nice photos, but the most important ones, of the groom that I stated are gone because that happened to be the SD card that didn't work. She said she is very willing to work with us on a discount or some kind of agreement to right the wrong, but wasn't sure what to do as this had never happened to her, and she sought advice from other photographers she knows, but they had not experienced this either, for a wedding. She wants me to think about it and talk with my husband and decide what we wish to do about resolving the discount issue. I told her, I understand the problem, because I have had experience with bad SD cards myself, even bought a few that didn't work at all. I told her a few were very important that she told me were on my list that she knew were gone, I told her my husband and I would have to look through all the pictures and see if there are some that may be 2nd choice to them but would suffice and discuss the issue with him, and then discuss an agreement at that time. She said that is not a problem, don't worry about bringing the rest of the payment tonight, she would give me the pictures, take our time and get back with her about that. I take that kind of trust as a compliment, so I really have more respect for her as a professional. </p>

<p>The question here...<br>

I have never had this happen either, and we are very understanding. I'm concerned my mother in law may get upset about not having those pictures with her son. As we have done a lot to help her feel included in our lives, and not feel like she is losing her son. I really don't want her feelings hurt about that. So, as we are upset about certain pictures, we also want to be fair and reasonable, and not dramatize the situation and go over the top crazy about it. What is a reasonable fair resolution for this mishap?</p>

<p>I'm suspicious.</p>

<p>First off, a second shooter is very oft a less-experienced shooter who is working with the "pro" to gain experience. SD cards do go corrupt but the key thing here is that the pro said "the 2nd photographer had an issue with her SD card" not indicating what the issue was. I'm betting the photographer either overwrote the images, formatted the card, or even forgot to put an SD card in the camera. Every photographer at a wedding "chimps" and looks at the images. If the card was corrupt then it would likely have been visible when the photographer tried to review the images, alerting her to use a different card.</p>

<p>Nothing will bring back the lost images, but personally, I'd ask for much greater compensation from an incompetence scenario than one where the card did indeed fail. Not sure how you could determine which is which.</p>

<p>I had a similar experience and I feel your loss personally. The gal who shot formal portraits of our kids with their only grandmother somehow lost the images. Nothing came of it - we didn't give a rat's behind about compensation. You simply can't compensate for losing images after grama is gone.</p>

<p>The world, alas, is full of new self-titled photographers who know nothing of proper testing and backup protocols.</p>

<p>One thing she MAY be able to try, and I've seen this work for me once or twice, is try directly connecting the camera to the computer (with the SD card in the camera of course) and see if the images are accessible that way. Can't hurt.</p>

<p>Our photographer did tell us the 2nd shooter was new. She stated you are able to view the images on the camera screen, but they photos will not load on any other device. My suspicion, I really don't like thinking negatively of anyone, but, I'm afraid the 2nd shooter may have intentionally sabotaged the photos she took. I know there was a dispute about unprofessional behavior from the 2nd shooter. Dispute was resolved, but you never know. Anyhow...I may never know what happened, but I am mostly concerned that my new mother in law, being very sensitive and insecure about the new marriage, will be hurt and I can't fix that. We made it a point to make sure she felt included and she had extra photo time with her son, and those pictures are gone. I know her well and she will feel like the photo time was just to appease her and be very upset with us. Now, being that she said bring no money tonight and decide what to do about discounted compensation myself...it's in our hands to figure it out and I'm more concerned with telling my mother in law about those pictures. I asked for advice here on the compensation, because I truly don't know what to do, just trying to be reasonable, we did get a ton of amazing pictures, but that was very important for his mother. It just HAD to be her pictures....there were a lot more lost, but these were the pictures that matter most out of all that were lost.</p>

<p>I must add...the dispute our photographer had with the 2nd shooter was...the 2nd shooter has a child in school with the child of someone that attended our wedding, not friends, just parents of kids that go to the same school...The 2nd shooter found my friend on her child's Facebook, and before I had paid my photographer, before my photographer had even started her editing....the 2nd shooter was sending pictures from our wedding to the mutual wedding attendee, so at some point, she was able to get the pictures, I saw a few of them. There was a contract between the 2, the pictures belong to our photographer, but could be used for her portfolio after we paid the balance of our bill. Our photographer refuses to work with the 2nd shooter again. I only know this because the 2nd shooter contacted me via Facebook and apologized to me, and I had no idea of the issue she was apologizing for. Now that our photographer has the SD card, it is not working properly.</p>

<p>No related to compensation, but is everybody in town? If so, you could recreate that photo session. Make it a party. And if the 2nd shooter was uploading images to Facebook, then she must still have them on her computer or they could be downloaded from Facebook if any are the ones in question. I agree with Patrick ... something's not right here.</p>

<p>If the images can be viewed on the back of the camera then the images can be transfered from the camera directly to a computer with the SD card still in the camera. However it is best to not even put the card in a camera if it is corrupt because it is possible to just make it worse. Real specialists often try to make a copy of the information from the card and then they try to recover the images from the copied information.</p>

<p>Anyway, if your photographer now have the SD card you should take the card to your own specialist for recovery. Maybe their specialist was the neighbors kid...</p>

<p>You can contact this company that Sandisk (which is one of the largest SD card manufacturers) themselves recommend:<br /> http://datarecovery.lc-tech.com/digital-media-recovery.html</p>

<p><br /> They will recover files from any manufacturers card. And you can see that they are the real deal since they will recover files from broken devices as well, which the neighbors kid or the computer store down the street can't.</p>

<p>Compensation should cover the expenses for data recovery as well as any inconvenience and also in proportion to how many images you were promised and didn't get. It sounds like your photographer is honest and professional so I'm sure you can work it out.</p>

<p>PS. I just saw that the company I linked to have a "no recovery - no fee" policy.</p>

<p>On the face of what you have presented it appears to be a problem of a poor business choice by your Photographer employing the 2nd Photographer.</p>

<p>Now faced with a messy issue which was apparently caused by 2nd Photographer it appears that the (Lead) Photographer, who, having a contract with you and also having a contract with the 2nd Photographer, is choosing to deal with you rather than pursuing more dealings with the person that she employed. My (experienced business) guess is that it is a much easier option for the (lead) Photographer to deal with you to attain a suitable outcome, especially as it appears that it was she, who proceeded initiating the idea of ‘compensation’.</p>

<p>I think that you are making a mistake defaulting directly to disusing what compensation is appropriate. Compensation might be an easier road, maybe for you and also for the (lead) Photographer: but it will not get the images that you want.</p>

<p>You have nothing to lose by pushing the issue to recover the images which are missing: in this respect and as you seem to be on good terms with the (lead) Photographer, if I were you I would have a face to face meeting with her and explain that it is your expectation that she pursue all avenues available to recover these "lost" images, either from the 2nd Photographer // or from the SD Card. That may mean you waiting a while and also expending energy, pushing firmly; but it may also mean you get the images that you want.</p>

<p>Directly addressing the question that you asked about compensation - well what is "appropriate" in the eye of the beholder: you seem more concerned about the feelings of people involved and the mages than about a discount, in this respect then a redo of your Mother-in-Law and your Husband and others (including rented suits and other necessary incidental expenses covered) seems to me to be a more elegant solution than % discount off the bottom line. A "party" as mentioned by Peter is a great idea, in my view.</p>

<p>But in your shoes I would (also) push NOW for the (lead) Photographer to vigorously address the issue that went haywire with the 2nd to make every effort to get those images for you. Also, if I were you, once I had all my skittles in a row and had chosen the course of action I would inform my Mother-in –Law of the situation and the steps that I had taken to resolve it.</p>

<p>WW</p>

I used to do data recovery. I had a lot of very expensive software. It wasn't worth the time to take apart

CF and SD cards and put them in new CF and SD cards, then running the software. With my

techniques I often found images on a damaged card that were from 3 or 4 years ago.

 

I second Pete's suggestion. If you use my name and they find images, you will get a 10 percent

discount. If they can retrieve the images the cost is about $600. AVOID at all costs - do not reformat the

card anymore. There may be great software on search engines. Don't take the chance. The more you do

this the less chance DriveSavers will have. Good luck. The only difference between Pete and myself is

the data recovery companies. I'm sure both are very good. If drive savers can't retrieve any information

well they don't charge. They also call you the minute they receive your card and let you know whats up.

 

For the future brides, this is why I use a camera with 2 memory slots. In my cameras I have an SD and

a CF card holder. Needless to say if one card goes bad I have the other card.

 

Future brides - ask this question. It's an accident waiting to happen.

 

I may get a lot of really bad feedback from photographers saying there isn't a need for a dual slotted

camera, because they cost a lot more. My answer is very simple. If you are a pro get these types of

cameras. Often weddings only happen once in their lives. If you can't afford this type of camera take out

a loan. Often just one wedding will bring in enough money to buy this type of camera. Are you willing to

gamble with someones very special day, a day of a lifetime? Not me. I have 3 of these cameras. I'm

safe. So be a true pro and be safe like I am along with several other pro's on this site.

 

This is the very same reason why I don't use second shooters, unless they are true pro's with dual

slotted cameras. Last year only my photo partner was used as an added photographer. Second

shooters scare me way too much. I'd rather shoot a wedding from a wheel chair before hiring a second

shooter.

 

Well with this information I may get blasted from other photographers. Let them blast away. I'm a big

boy.

 

By the way there is only one condition with my rules and that is if the photographer uses 2 cameras and

takes pretty much the same shots with his/her backup camera.

<p>There is something disturbing about this scenario and Pete nailed it. If the images can be seen on the back of the camera, I have never seen a situation where they could not be transferred off of the camera using the USB cable. Something tells me that there are other issues at work here.</p>

<p>Of course the lead should NEVER have let an inexperienced second shoot the must-have shots alone. Never. Second shooters shoot second shots. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Bob Berbardo said this: I may get a lot of really bad feedback from photographers saying there isn't a need for a dual slotted camera, because they cost a lot more. My answer is very simple. If you are a pro get these types of cameras. </p>

</blockquote>

<p>And ALL God's Children Said AMEN! In this day and age there is absolutely no excuse for a professional wedding photographer, charging for his/her services to use any camera that does not have dual slots. I know that a D3200 can shoot wonderful shots in the hands of an expert but it is not an appropriate tool for the job. I would no sooner shoot a wedding with a single slot camera these days than I would try to fly. There was a time when single card cameras were all we had. In those days we carried two cameras as we do today but we alternated for important shots so that we had the backup we needed. Today dual slot cameras cost as little as $1200.00 new. Every professional event or wedding photographer needs to either have a couple of these or they need to stay home. (Or be very good an ganging their shots with their backup camera.) Playing fast and loose with someone's most important day is inexcusable. If your second shooter doesn't have the right equipment then they can't be trusted to shoot the must-have photos. (If they should be trusted with those at all.) I would even go further and say that if I were the lead, I would have snagged those cards at the wedding and taken them with me. The second can have them back later after I had them safely saved. A good lead would have been checking as the day progressed too.</p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

<p>So I think that these shots may still exist if you can get your hands on the card. Others would know far more about this than I do.</p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

<p>As for a reasonable solution if you can't get the shots. I like William W's solution of a make-up shoot/party. Make your mother in law the center of attention at the party and you might just score some big points with her. Tell her how disappointed you and your husband are that these shots were lost and would she be kind enough to participate in this make-up shoot. </p>

<blockquote>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I sure hope the new folks read this carefully.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thank you all for the very helpful advice. In response to the idea of a party and' recapturing' those photos...we were discussing the idea, our entire wedding party, including our mothers live in the state we grew up in, about 3 hours away from us. We paid all their wedding, travel, and room expenses to be here the 1st time. This is absolutely an option we are considering and I think we will go with. We put a lot of time and money into the biggest day of our lives and I stressed how important the pictures are and did not scrimp on the picture budget. Compensation will just have to be that she pay the expenses for a retake, at this point I feel that's the only thing that will resolve the situation. You are right, I don't want a discount, I would rather have the memories captured that we were paying for, and not have my mother in law hurt. I did pick up the good pictures tonight and my husband and I were again, upset, the photos of him with my mother were also lost and she is not in the best health, to put it lightly, hopefully we can get this scheduled immediately. In the meantime, I will also take the advice and assert that I do want the bad SD card to try to have the photos recovered myself.</p>

<p>Yes, you should most definitely try to get the SD card in question. It is extraordinarily unlikely that (since the images can be viewed on the camera) you will be unable to recover some if not most of the images from a proper data recovery service. <br>

Since this will take time, I would only plan a 'restaging event' (at this point) if there is a significant additional cost to doing it later. I think it may turn out that (if handled correctly) it will be completely unnecessary. </p>

<p>I think it is likely that the user/camera is to blame for this problem. While a dual card camera may have successfully recorded the images on one card and not on the other, I think it is just as likely that in this case both cards would have become magically corrupted. There are three possible causes:<br>

1) the SD card is 'bad' - this doesn't appear (broadly) to actually be the case, as the images can be viewed on screen. While card failures can have numerous manifestations, the fact the images are viewable AT ALL makes most irrelevant, and makes it extremely likely that much of the data can be recovered.<br>

2) the camera is writing bad files - If the camera is to blame, the images written to the card were corrupted (preventing them from being read properly by 'normal' software) - If this is the case, most of the image data is likely preserved, while the file headers are likely garbage. Any data recovery software will be able to make SOMETHING out of the residual image data. It will read the bad files, give them new headers, and salvage all of the data it can in a way that can be manipulated. You may get Tiffs or Jpegs out, and you may end up with some garbled or partially garbled images, but you will get something, and it'll likely be something you can actually turn into a usable image.<br>

3)The second shooter is a bad actor - In which case your only hope is that they haven't done irreversible damage (ie deleted/reformatted the card- THEN shot to capacity filling the card with new data - or dropped it down a well), AND are willing to give you the card. </p>

<p>Those are the only realistic possibilities. I wish you the best of luck in recovering the images!</p>

<p>Just because you can see images on the LCD doesn't mean the main, full resolution files are available. The LCD images are very low resolution jpegs that are immediately generated to allow instant review after a shot is taken. </p>

<p>IMO, the notion that a second shooter should never shoot alone is misleading. The idea of a second shooter is to cover other parts of the wedding, as well as shoot back-ups or secondary angles. Other-wise they are an assistant. </p>

<p>I would NOT proceed with any other plan before exhausting recovery attempts. </p>

<p>Both my main cameras shoot to two cards. I also use single card cameras (like my Leica MM), but never use it to do "must haves". While the odds favor nothing going wrong, all it takes is one time. </p>

<p>- Marc</p>

<p> </p>

There's always something that can go wrong when dealing with technology. I seriously, seriously doubt that this second

shooter intentionally ruined someone's wedding shoot. More likely there was an equipment failure or human error, period. Whatever other

drama surrounds the primary and secondary photog is I believe another matter. As for using dual cards, I use dual cards

now for "almost" everything, but some cameras that serve a specific purpose for some shots only have a single card, and

even with dual cards some other failure can occur. We just leave ourselves with the best scenario for success using dual

cards just in case.

<p>"Just because you can see images on the LCD doesn't mean the main, full resolution files are available. The LCD images are very low resolution jpegs that are immediately generated to allow instant review after a shot is taken."</p>

<p>Of course, but that implies that a) the card is readable by the camera, and b) there is something to read. One therefore can logically conclude there are readable files/images on the card, and while the camera only samples for it's rendered display image, I think it's safe to assume that there is more data than only that. At that point, most of the worst fears have been eliminated.</p>

<p>As far as the 'bad actor', I should probably have said 'bad/actor and/or clueless photog' (in my mind they are the same thing in this role) - I've seen photogs complain about this very same issue, about how a corrupt CF card ruined their whole life, every single file was corrupted! ...only to have it pointed out that they had inadvertently set the camera to record RAWs instead of JPEGS. Such an occurrence is not outside the realm of possibility - though I had assumed that the primary had already done due diligence before delivering bad news.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"I would NOT proceed with any other plan before exhausting recovery attempts."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, indeed.<br>

In case this important point was diluted in my lengthy response, this is my most very strong opinion, also.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

<p>Maybe I missed something, but I have to ask: Were the photographs (from the wedding) that the second shooter posted on FB on the same card that held the OP's missing ones? </p>

<p>I smell a rat... namely in the form of the 2nd shooter. If they could get the images up to facebook - they can get them to a computer. </p>

<p>I've seen cards work fine in camera die on various computers - sometimes they work fine on a windows based machine or a MAC - and for what ever reason refuse to work on the other brand of computer. </p>

<p>Get the memory card from the 2nd ASAP. And as mentioned - exhaust all the options for recovery first. </p>

<p>As for the 2nd being a beginner - it happens. Many photographers I know who are primary shooters fill in gaps by being 2nds for other pros - it gives them a break, income, and exposes them to styles and ideas they might not otherwise see. I would not feel comfortable marketing someone who is brand new as a 2nd - they would be an assistant and not trusted to get any "important" shots on their own. They would be the one off with the girls - while I was doing the couple / family - not the other way. <br>

<br />Dave</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Were the photographs (from the wedding) that the second shooter posted on FB on the same card that held the OP's missing ones?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes Noreen, I read it that way:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>“the 2nd shooter was sending pictures from our wedding to the mutual wedding attendee, so at some point, she was able to get the pictures, I saw a few of them” . . . “Now that our photographer has the SD card, it is not working properly.”</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>(May 02, 2014; 03:16 p.m)</p>

<p>Thank you, William. That is how I read it as well. I hesitate to analyze the situation further, so will leave that to others, including the OP. (Otherwise, the character-building fiction-writer aspect of me will start to come out!)</p>

Well I have to say something else here. (As usual!)

 

There is a chance that the second shooter forgot to put in the SD card into the camera. He/she could have had the camera setting placed wrong. There is a setting in the cameras that will show the images even though there isn't a card. Pretty silly for sure. So you have to reset this setting so that if the SD card isn't installed the image won't show up on the LCD. It's unusual, but it does happen.

<p>get the files off there facebook if you can. there is software that can up res pretty good.</p>

I'm a little confused by this story. The 2nd shooter was able to get enough pictures off her card to post on FB, but now the card is

unreadable? Certainly the 2nd shooter was able to get some pictures and those should be stored somewhere. No?

<p>Lisa,<br>

I hope this issue can be resolved to your satisfaction. On an unrelated note, you sound like such a kind and understanding person. Your mother-in-law is very lucky to have you!</p>