q.g._de_bakker Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Sunpak did sell (perhaps still do) a ringflash unit that's TTL compatible with Hasselblad cameras. (That's why i have a Sunpak HA-1D or HA-2D (or even both?) adapter somewhere deep inside a box stored somewhere i can't remember.) It's been a long while, and i don't remember the type number either. 12R or something like that.<br>I replaced the thing with a Metz dedicated twin flash. Liked that idea from my Olympus kit, so when Hasselblad sold a similar kit i wanted it.<br>But that contraption, with brackets, heads, unit etc. is a bit big. Not fun. Maybe a ring flash ins't that bad after all for MF macro... perhaps i'll have to try to remember where i put that stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 <p>John, the Shoe Adapter III was the standard mount for the module on handle mount flashes, as many cameras had no shoe, at least with some finders. That includes 35mm along with MF. For example, my Bronicas have no shoe on any finder, nor does the Nikon F3, (except the DE-5 prism on the F3P variation), and the Pentax LX has no shoe on any finder except two eye-level ones. The F3 would require the Nikon shoe adapter. Hasselblads frequently are used with a WLF, so there is no shoe if you don't have the Hasselblad accessory one.</p> <p>The module having a standard foot means that it can be mounted in a shoe where available, and as it constitutes the lower part of TTL shoe-mount flashes, it makes complete sense for it to have a standard foot. Sunpak had to come up with a standard way to adapt their flashes to many different cameras, and their modules to different types of flashes, and I think they did it well.</p> <p>The coiled cord between the module and the body described by Len and shown in his picture does look rather short. That is surprising to me, as the one for my Bronicas is about a foot long unstretched, which would be handy for a shoe-mount flash on a tall bracket or handheld.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len_robertson Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 <p>On the Sunpak box for the HA-2D module, only Hasselblad models are listed. I imagine the internal circuit only works for Hasselbads. So Sunpak (and probably Metz) decided you would either mount the module to the flash bracket rail or use the Hasselbad side cold shoe, hence the short cord to the camera body. It might be possible to mount the module on top of a prism and stretch the fairly short coiled cord down to the side of the camera body, but it looks to me like the cord would be somewhat stressed at the body end. Also the shoe on the module has a 1/4-20 tripod thread inside, so it may be possible to just attach it to the bracket rail with a tripod screw, not needing a cold shoe adapter.</p> <p>A thread from Flickr on Hasselblad TTL flash http://www.flickr.com/groups/hasselblad/discuss/72157602101171871/ The last post gives some Sunpak model numbers and mentions Quantum having a Hasselblad dedicated TTL flash.</p> <p>Len</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 <p>Good point about the thread inside. With an extra attaching screw, that would work.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 There is a strong clue in the "HA" in HA-2D, Len. It stands for "Hasselblad", meaning that it is indeed only meant for Hasselblads. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 <p>Len-<br /> Sunpak made two ring flashes which take the TTL module: the DX12R and the DX8R. I don't know of any others. The GX8R is similar to the DX8R, but takes only an external battery pack, and I don't think it takes a TTL module.<br /> Several shoe-mount flashes took the module directly if you want to use a regular type flash for macro (which avoids the flatness of ring flash illumination). They are the already mentioned 120J and 444D, and also the 422D, 30DX and 36DX. There might be more.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>Just for the fun of it, I took the mounting screw off of another Sunpak bracket I had and put it on the 555's bracket. So that's two mounting screws on one bracket. I attached the module to the second one, and it works perfectly! Very solid. A great idea, Len! </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>Also, I don't know if this is true of Hasselblad, but if I am using the motor or Speed Grip (thumb winder) on my Bronica, they have a hot shoe that the module could be mounted on.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hasselblad grips have a (or two - depending on what model you have) cold shoe(s). They however are left hand grips, and sit where a handle mount flash would be. Hasselblad did make a bracket that is mounted on the grip, in the cold shoe, with a clamp to hold handle mount flash units. But i don't know if there ever were people who really liked that arrangement. O.k. perhaps back in the days when handle mount units were just a rod with a reflector on top (i.e. no camera bracket) were attached to cameras like the Graflex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>Got the 553ELX yesterday and seems to work just fine. I put a roll of film in the back and will take a few shot. My HA-2D should arrive either today or tomorrow. I also have figured out several different ways to mount the module, but will wait until it gets here to decide which is best. JohnW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>Well, got to wait until tomorrow since the HA-2D didn't make it today. Test time will now be postponed until Thurs. afternoon.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 The suspense... ;-)<br>You may find that leaving the thing dangling, suspended by the coil cord, may not be the worst way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>So it would be possible then Q.G. (maybe not desirable), to mount the module in the Hasselblad grip's shoe and mount the 555 (which can be rotated in its bracket clamp) on the right side instead.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 <p>Jeff, that's also what I was thinking of trying. I'll know tomorrow and will post a pic or two of the setup. John</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Using an EL(...) perhaps, Jeff. You will then have to reach around the flash to operate the focusing ring and set the shutter and aperture.<br>Using a C(...) camera, anything on the right hand side would of course be in the way.<br><br>I don't particularly like the left hand grip as such. It moves the weight out of your hand to the end of an arm, creating a momentum that is constantly twisting your wrist, needing a constant strain to counter that.<br>Using a handle mount flash (i use Metz units) mounted on the left side of the camera, creating something similar to a left hand grip, i still hold and operate the camera as if the flash wasn't there. (Left hand underneath, fingers operating the focussing ring. Right hand free to set aperture and shutter and the release button.) It of course is there, and as a concession, instead of holding my left arm elbow against my side, i raise it up to support the flash, resting the bracket on my lower arm. Works best for me.<br><br>I also don't like the double grip Hasselblad also sold for EL(...) cameras, which would be a very close approximation of what the set up would be using a left hand grip and the flash on the right side.. It may be fine if all you need to do is point the camera at something and push a release button. But both hands occupied holding something that is not any of the few things you need to operate is not good. So i wouldn't try that myself. But perhaps it works for you, and if it doesn't mean spending extra money there's no reason not to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 <p>Well, the Sunpak HA-2D finally got here. Well, play this weekend, but it sure looks like a clobbered up mess.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 <p>I also have the DX8R to try with the 553ELX so it'll be a busy weekend. Johnw</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len_robertson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 <p>John - I'm looking forward to seeing how you get along with you new gear. "...looks like a clobbered up mess." is unfortunately true, but I guess the only way Sunpak could adapt the 555 to a Hasselblad was using 3 cords and the separate module. At least it is light weight. Do you have the Sunpak head to PC connector cord? It would be an interesting experiment to do the same shot with that cord, relying on the sensor in the front of the flash head, and a comparison shot with the module for TTL flash sensing. I suspect at distances of 8 feet or more there may not be much difference between the two systems of sensing. I had hoped to do this test myself during the week and finish a couple of rolls of film, but there is always something else that comes up.<br> When I got my 555 a few years ago I searched online for information on using it with a Hasselblad. At that time there was almost nothing except the instruction book. The question you posted here and all the answers is sort of "writing the book" on the subject.<br> <br />Len</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 At the time that Sunpak made these machines and adapters, you could get all the info you would need from Sunpak.<br><br>I don't quite see any of the "clobbered up mess - unfortunately" and "the only way ... - at least it is ..." aspect.<br>It's a bit like complaing that stairs, though quite useful, consists of steps ordered one above and a little behind the other, in a succession going on until the difference in level between one floor and the next is bridged.<br>What else would you have expected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 <p>Well Q.G I'm no rocket scientist or designer, but if I were working for Sunpak at the time I could have certainly come up with a less clustered mess and much more compact. I'm speaking of a "professional accessory" for a professional camera like the Hasselblad. Sunpak could have made a one-piece module that plugged into the head right where the EXT-11 plugs in and then had two coil-cords(one to the camera and one to the lens). Dangling cords are much easier to wrap than a dangling module. This setup looks like some kind of after thought or something. I do understand that this is what we got and have to live with it, but I still think it's a very poor design for a professional arrangement. 'yust me own opinion of course. John<br> I'll post pics taken with the two flashes tomorrow since I have to process the film yet and let it dry before I scan it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len_robertson Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 <p>John - I Initially had the same thought about having the module plugged into the flash and eliminating one cord. My guess is the Sunpak engineers may have felt the attachment point on the 555 wasn't strong enough to support the size and weight of the module and the strain of two cords pulling on it. I think the module predated integrated circuits, so it must have a small circuit board and can't be made smaller. Also, the two cords would have needed to be made much longer for use with flash off the bracket.<br> The 555 instruction book on Butkus doesn't mention the Hasselblad module which lead me to think fitting the 555 to TTL Hasselblads was an afterthought to the existing system. So the Sunpak engineers made a possibly arbitrary choice on how to do it best. Maybe they just looked at Metz using the separate module and 3 cords and decided that was a workable way to solve the problem. It sort of amazed me Sunpak bothered with adapting the 555 to medium format TTL cameras. They probably didn't sell in huge numbers.</p> <p>Len</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_wiegerink1 Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 <p>Just hung the clothes to dry! The film is now drying and I'll scan and take so pictures of the outfit tomorrow. But, there is a fly in the ointment! I noticed when I was doing the macro shots that I pushed my DOF lever on the 80mm 2.8 Planar and it would not stop down all the way. When I was done shooting I checked it out and found out that I have a lazy diaphragm and when I stop down to f8 or so the shutter has already opened and closed before the aperture has hit f4. This really won't hurt the TTL shots, other than a shallower DOF, but all other shots will be over exposed. I noticed the last few times I had used the lens that some of the exposures were off and now I know why. I spent the afternoon tearing into it and now it's running like a fine Swiss watch. I'm going to burn my last roll of Arista EDU 200 tomorrow and test it out. Just from looking at the hanging film I'd say the camera, back and TTL system work like a charm. I bought the 553ELX, A12 back and 45 prism for under $150.00. To me that's almost unbelievable! But being older I have a habit of living in yesterdays prices and this same system back then would have cost me an arm, leg and left testicle. More tomorrow so stay tuned. JohnW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_livacich Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 <p>Remember, John-- Sunpak did not design it to have "a dangling module". The shoe adapter was included with each module and a place just for it was provided on the flash bracket. <br /><br />If you get a second attachment screw, or even just a 1/4-20 screw of the right length with a washer (a fender washer would work very well, but a standard one will suffice), then you can attach the module to the bracket directly, which I found to be a very solid method. I like that Sunpak decided to use a metal insert for the thread in the foot.</p> <p>Under $150? What a fantastic price for your setup!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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