Mamiya 7/Travel

Hello all

 

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Thanks for your answers on past questions. I have now made up my mind to def move up to MF and now is the time to decide which camera? I do a lot of different types of photography but mostly travel/street. I do want excellent quality and ease of use but also want to be taking a photograph without pointing at someone/something. My idea is to keep my 35mm SLR, and buy a Mamiya 7 (great for travel/landscapes I have heard) and also perhaps an older TLR (Mamiya C33/0, Yahicamat 24?) for the lack of imposition the waist-level finder offers. Can I afford it, though?

 

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PS I entered a photography comp for the first time last month and have just been told I won!!! This is the first time that I have been told that my pics are 'good' in any way. I'm chuffed!

Go for the Mamiya TLR first. It's also great for landscapes, and I have heard many praises for the Mamiya TLR 65mm lens. I think that you can get backs up to 6x9. You can get a complete setup for about 1/10th the price of a Mamiya 7.

 

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Congratulations on the contest!

6x9 backs for the Mamiya TLR Brian? That's incredible! Where were they when I owned Mamiya TLRs?

I've never heard of extra backs for a Mamiya C33/0. Perhaps you're thinking of the 6x8 back available for the (much different) RB 67?

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Peter, congratulations on your win! I, too, recommend starting out with something less expensive than the Mamiya 7. If you prefer a rangefinder, you might look for a used Mamiya 6. It's very similar to the 7, except it's lens mount collapses and it takes 6x6 pictures with interchangable 50, 80, and 150 mm lenses.

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The C33/0 is great and offers interchangable lenses, but is a bit heavy. A Rolleiflex, such as the 2.8F current being discussed on another thread, may be a better alternative. These offer excellent performance (especially the ones with Xenotar or Planar lenses) and are smaller and lighter. Their limitation is a fixed (but excellent) 80 mm lens. They'll take pictures very nearly as good as the Mamiya 7 and, because they cost less, use a waist-level finder, and look old and peculiar (to other people), you may feel more like dragging one around. Plus, you'll have money left over to buy a good light meter and lots of film.

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P.S. Yes, do keep your 35mm equipment. It has its place, too.

Brian is correct. Mamiya offered an accessory back for individual 6x9 cut film holders for their TLRs, much like a view camera . Not a 6x9 roll film holder, though.

Because of the TLR, you might want to check Graham Pattersons web pages. Most complete description of the system on the web.

 

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The intention of the cut film holder is, if you want to burn up

emulsions available in sheet film but not in 120 or 220. I believe today it is usually the opposite way, more is available in 120 than in sheet. It wouldn't take larger negs with this one than 6x6 cm. I never felt any need for this item.

 

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Concerning the weight of the Mamiya TLR, you might want to consider a C220. This is substancially lighter than the C330 since it saves the gears for the auto winding of the lens shutter and the parallax indication in the view finder. Both shouldn't be real draw backs for what I understood is your intention to use it. The C220 is also a lot cheaper than a C330. I had a C220 for a while and returned it because of mal adjustments. Over all I prefered it's handling over the C330f which I still own.

 

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I have to oppose the recommendation of the 65 mm for landscape. 65 is pretty close to the 55, which is the widest in the system. So for only few people owning both lenses makes sense. Horizontal coverage of the 55 compares to a 35 in 35 format, which is not overly much.

 

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The Mamiya TLR is not really a fast camera, it takes some time to set it up. I find it hard to use it for spontaneous shoots of people. Hope this helps.

I agree with all the others who have mentioned to go for the mamiya M6 (6x6) instead of the M7 (6x7). Both cameras are pretty much alike in terms of size and weight. The only difference is the availability of the higly acclaimed 43 mm lens for the M7. Consider that the 43 mm lens of the mamiya M7 is more than twice as expensive as the comparable 50 mm lens of the M6. I'm very pleased with the perfomance of the latter lens which produces stunningly sharp and dynamically looking pictures, great for architecture, and landscapes. The same can be said for the other lenses (75 mm, 150 mm) of the M6 system. Thus I'm not quite sure that the somewhat wider angle of view of the 43 mm lens pays off to purchase the M7 system.

 

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Generally it is a joy to work with the M6 system. Being aware of the awsome performance of those mamiya lenses produces a very comfortable and confident feeling that your visual composition will turn out into great pictures.

Hi everyone, re the Mamiya 6 I recall speaking with a guy at the local camera store commenting on the 6x6 version saying that many of his customers disliked the collapsible mount as it was prone to unwanted movement when fully extended; he also mentioned that some of them had even taken steps to secure the camera in its extended stage permanently by installing some screws to arrest the unwanted movement.

Is this another concocted story or is there some accuracy as to what I was told.

Congratulations! I too do mostly street/travel and for many years used only 35mm, until for some reason a couple years ago I rented a Mamiya 7. Once those jewel-like chromes were on the light box I knew I had to have one. But the price! Then last year I returned from a trip to India and my first thought when looking at my 35mm Velvia (with which I am otherwise very pleased) was "I wish I'd taken a medium format camera". Earlier this year I was lucky enough to find a deal on an M7 and 65mm lens, so I jumped. Everything people say about ease of use and lens quality is true, in my experience. Since I prefer the rectangular format, I never considered the "6". I do, however, have an old Rolleicord which I find useful in many respects (not least of which is the limitation/freedom of having only one lens). Given the Mamiya 7 prices, you might start well with a TLR -- it does seems to be less invasive. Certainly keep the 35mm gear -- I still use mine considerably, but having the M7 is wonderful.

If you can afford the Mamiya 7, and/or can find a good deal on one, go for it. I own one with all four lenses (bought all as gray market goods at considerable savings over Mamiya America prices). Even so, the camera and lenses are expensive, but I think they're worth it. An important feature the other answerers haven't commented on is the compact size and LIGHT WEIGHT of this camera: considering that it offers an image 4.5 times the size of your 35mm image, I find it amazing that the camera is about the size of, and is actually lighter than, a Nikon F5 for example. It is well designed, well balanced, and handles beautifully; it feels wonderful and comes very naturally to hand. It is a handy, simple, fast (for medium-format), easy-to-use, very user-friendly camera, and you can probably get along without the spectacular but very pricy 43mm lens; I do mostly landscape, scenic, travel photography and some photo workshops (currently using the Mamiya 7 and a couple of Canon T90s; I too am still using 35mm for the things it does best--obviously you won't be using the Mamiya 7 for macro, for example), and I find the 65mm and 80mm lenses are the ones I'm using most often (I use the 65 as my normal lens). Another nice feature is that the lenses are relatively compact and easily fit in the pockets of your photo vest, jacket, or whatever. Viewfinder is large and bright, with framelines automatically fitted to the lens in use (except the 43, which has an outboard viewfinder); rangefinder focusing is positive. You will be delighted with the spectacular image quality this camera and these lenses deliver. I'd say instead of spending your money on a lesser camera/lenses and then still lusting in your heart after the Mamiya 7, why not just go for it? If you think you're eventually going to wind up with one, you might even save money in the long run by skipping the intermediate step. Anyway, I love mine and from what you say about your photography I suspect you'd love the Mamiya 7 outfit too. (I could suggest a gray market source, if you're interested and can't find one.) And congratulations on your win!

Just wanted to add this postscript to my previous response to you re Mamiya 7. (1) If you don't already have it, Mamiya America puts out a really beautiful full-color, detailed brochure (with lots of color photos) on the Mamiya 7 and its lenses and accessories (you want to ask specifically for the Mamiya 7 brochure, not the Mamiya full-line brochure). It's a model of its kind. Be forewarned, though, that if you get this brochure, it will make you lust for the camera all the more. (Call Mamiya America at 914-347-3300.)(2) Also, if you should get a Mamiya 7 via gray market or used without instruction manual in English, not to worry; you can get one at the Mamiya America website for $8 (www.mamiya.com). (3) The only feature of the Mamiya 7 that may be a little problematic for you, coming from 35mm (it has been for me), is the built-in metering system; it is quite strongly CENTER-weighted, and differs markedly from the averaging type metering systems most of us grew used to in 35mm SLRs. It takes some getting used to. Cheers.

I would like to respond to the claim, that the collapsable lens board (sorry, don't know the right expression) of the Mamiya is a source of instability. Although I'm only a satisfied amateur M6 user, I can not verify this claim, nor have I ever heard of such a problem (I checked out many sources before buying). I worked with three different M6s - none of which had the described problem.

 

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I would also like to add that the Mamiya 6 is an extremely capable MF camera for travelling. I think it's a shame that Mamiya stopped it's production. I think it has some advantages over the Mamiya 7, which make it worth considering:

- The collapsable lens board makes the M6 VERY compact. Some people say the difference is too small to make a real difference, but I suggest to have a look at the M6 with the normal lens (in the retracted position) and a M7 with a normal lens. The difference is at least to me one of the reasons why I went for the M6.

- The choice of lenses is very useful. Of course the M7 has the 43mm lens, but if you can't afford it, or don't need to go that wide, the 50mm lens is a very good choice (compared to the 65mm of the M7 which is a bit close to the 80mm lens). The normal lens of the M6 is slightly faster and has a close-up attachement, which is not particularly beautiful, but very useful, because it covers the distance between 0.5 meter and 1.0 meter - in my opinion much more useful than the M7's close-up attachement.

- If you project slides (like me) 6x6 is much cheaper than 6x7 and projectors are still realtively widely available (at least in Europe). I picked mine up for about 150$...

- The M6 is cheaper.

 

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And thanks for the interesting things you guys out there contribute to this forum!

 

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Alexander Starcevic (Switzerland - currently living in Japan)

I agree with Alexander from Switzerland that it was an odd choice of Mamiya to offer 65 and 80mm focal lengths for the Mamiya 7 lenses; I have often puzzled over this myself. According to the Mamiya America brochure on the Mamiya 7, the 43mm lens is equivalent to a 21mm lens in 35mm terms; the 65mm lens is equivalent to a 32mm lens in 35mm terms; the 80mm lens is equivalent to 39mm lens in 35mm terms; and the 150mm lens is equivalent to 71mm in 35mm terms. This is a strange distribution. Surely it was a bizarre decision of Mamiya's, if they were going to offer only four lenses, to have the 65 and the 80 bunched so close together (angle of view for the 65 is 69 degrees; angle of view for the 80 is 58 degrees). When you use them on the camera, they really don't seem very far apart.

The Hasselblad 501 outfit (includes 80 mm lens) is cheaper than the Mamiya 7 outfit (including 80 mm lens). I strongly suggest renting these cameras and trying them out for a couple of days before deciding on it.

Well, I think the catch comes when you look at the word Travel in the question. I really like to travel light and not draw much attention to myself. This would limit MF cameras to basically rangefinders and maybe a small fixed lens TLR. The big SLRs are just too clunky for me... The Mamiya 6 and 7 are great but don't overlook the Fuji AF 645s. You can pick up used ones now for like $800. Not bad.

I've a Mamiya 7 with the 43mm, 80mm, and 150mm lens myself. I've got the kit in a small tamrac shoulder bag now testing if this'll work for travel. I'm thinking of getting a yashica T4 super to bring along as a complement.

The Mamiya 7 has taken a bit of getting used to for me coming from a Nikon but now I'm starting to like it more. I do still miss shots where I have to compose and shoot quickly with a zoom though...

Having said all that, if I were on a smaller budget I'd get one of the Fujis.

Just add a point. There will be a 50mm f4.5 lens for the Mamiya 7. I find this from a japanese photo magazine.

One of the best ways to help you decide on the brand or make of lens

that is best is to ask a fine art printer what they think produces teh best negs. They know what not only is teh sharpest but the best in contrast etc.

I recently went to a printer (30 years of professional printing) as time is a problem for me to do my own. I put the negs on teh light box to explain what I wanted done. Later I went back to get the prints and his comment was that that two specific 6X7 negs must have been with an M7 as they were easiest to print and and produced tack sharp images. While there are only a few 6X7 caameras out there he went onto to say that in his opinion the lenses may be the sharpest out there, Zeiss, Schneider etc. included.

So while lens quality is only one of a few factors, try asking a printer to at least make sure you are getting teh best that your money can buy. I have tried several MF units and the M7 is easily the best travel unit. The 43mm is to die for!!