M3 - HIGH Price but Take a Look - Thinking of Buying: Need Help

<p>I'm the newbie thinking of something like this, though 3 Big Ones for an M3 + Lens is sort of eye-popping price but:<br>

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-M3-with-Summicron-50mm-f2-DR-Lens-NEAR-MINT-IN-BOX-/261345123300?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item3cd9621be4<br>

Two-Week Return plus a credit card PayPal payment seems safe for Ebay-Preventitive-Fraud (a little sensitive after a near rip-off of a Rollie 6008i few years back, though it turned into a great deal at the end with a credit card complaint - a long story).<br>

Also been looking at M6 used and used M7; and a "starters offer" from Leica: new M7 & 50mm Sumicron $6500<br>

What'dya think of the M3 though, closes in a few hours?<br>

Thanks for all the help on my recent Leica interest.</p>

<p>A two-week return is meaningless: the shutter may begin to play up in two months. Your best bet may be to buy the cheapest M you can find and have it overhauled by one of the competent technicians whose names you can find here.</p>

<p>Is your hope to use this camera or purchase it as an investment or a book shelf item?<br>

<br />I cannot think of any reason at all to pay an inflated price for a camera you intend to use. If you plan to use this camera, buy a user quality body and per the previous advice, have it tuned up, then use it.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"the shutter is accurate at all speeds" <strong>&</strong> "every camera we sell has been thoroughly inspected" <strong>&</strong> "is working perfectly in every regard and is in <strong>MINT</strong> condition" <strong>eBay Ad claims</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Kind of suspect if this "<em>Mint</em>" camera has an original Leica "L" seal, <strong>or</strong> if they lack the copy of an invoice from a competent technician. Keep in mind it doesn't seem to be complete; no mention of the "close-up" DR apparatus. <br /> Of course both are fantastic units to own. (M3 & DR Summicron)<br /> <br /> But that said, the <strong>end result</strong> is always best when you buy the "lowest mileage" unit (You can afford), and then get it serviced properly.<br /> Plus for this price, arguably regarded as another "Best of all-time", you can buy a modern <strong>Leica MP...</strong></p>

<p>Sounds high to me. I'd check out the "Completed Items" first before jumping in to this. Most M3's listed as sold are within the 500-1000 range some with Summicron's a little higher. Also review this guy's feedback...it isn't 100% positive.</p>

<p>I can't add much more to what has been said so well, except that it seems a very high price for a camera of that age of unknown condition and incomplete (bug eyes ?) dual range Summicron, as Gus has mentioned. If you just want a collectable, and not a working condition Leica, it would pay to wait until you got one that is very much like new and not "near" mint (whatever that means, as the photos (due to lighting) are not very detailed). When was it last serviced? If you want a useable camera, the advice of Mukul and Erik makes sense, as you will certainly have the Leica feel and a very high percentage of performance with a cheaper body that you can have inspected, cleaned and adjusted. I've had the M3 (double stroke, less convenient than single stroke, but arguably a stronger advance mechanism), M4-2 , M6 and M4-P (present film Leica with a IIIc/f) and have been equally happy with all 4, even though each has its pros and cons, often of minor importance for the occasional hobbyist photography (or say, using less than a film a week as I do).</p>

<p>All of the seller's current offerings are on the high side of the scale for the cited condition in today's market. The seller's feedback meets my standards (I've had over 500 transactions over the years), but I'm always a little skeptical when high prices are consistent with all their listings. Personally I'd look on somewhere like KEH.com and if I see something interesting, give them a call (I have no relationship with them, but have bought several bodies and lenses from them, and sold a few items to them as well).l</p>

<p>Man this is GREAT feedback and the opposite of what I expected, I could already see myself opening the box in front of cheering crowds. Very astute eye you all have.<br>

I'm usually less "go out and GET ONE!!!" so I better give this some time and self-education. I usually get good bargains and just did on the Fuji Rangefinder I bought - one used camera every 5 day- period is asking for it. (And I've still to check out the test roll for that which I'll pick up now. Negatives look excellent though.)<br>

I definitely will ask your opinion before I buy anything and THANK YOU very much for the cold water.<br>

Best</p>

 

<p>It seems way high. An M3 is on KEH rated as excellent (which from KEH is in really good shape) For $665 and 50mm Summicron 50 DR (like shown in your item) for $650. You are paying double (depending on actual shape) An internet "near mint" is not to me as reliable as a KEH rating.</p>

<p>Apart from the price and everything else, one quirk of the M3 to consider is that it doesn't have framelines for anything wider than a 50mm lens. There are various solutions to this (accessory finders, contemporary lenses with 'eyes', estimating using the whole area of the finder, etc.), but if you want to use a 35mm lens, consider an M2/M4/M6 etc. If you want to go even wider, I think the 28mm framelines started with the M4-P in the 80s.</p>

<p>The pictures posted with the auction don't really show much but if you look at them carefully, there are some telltale signs.</p>

<p><img src="http://www.timcarrollphotography.com/Forums/Telltale.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>The circled areas are scuffs on the top plate, which can be signs of considerable use. Around the rewind knob, you can see grime buildup in an area where many sellers don't take the time to clean, again signs of considerable use. And finally, on the shutter speed dial, you can see the telltale signs of having been connected to a Leica meter. </p>

<p>From my reading of the auction, what bothers me is the seller's attempt to present the camera as basically mint condition in the original box with original lens, as basically a collector's piece. As mentioned above, if this were the case, where are the goggles for the DR lens. And where is the Leica meter that was obviously attached to the camera at one time.</p>

<p>For that asking price, I would definitely steer clear.</p>

<p>Best,<br>

-Tim</p>

<p>Wayyyyyyy toooo high!!!!!!!!!!</p>

<p>Let it go!</p>

<p>Just wanted to add even if you need to send one out for a CLR your way ahead. Yeah, I'd stay away from it.</p>

<p>Richard, the M3 has lines for the 90 and 135 as well as 50</p>

<p>The "Detailed item info" says the M3 has TTL metering, which of course is incorrect.</p>

Do you really NEED a mint museum piece? Buy an M2 or M3 from KEH. It will be a lot cheaper and you won't be nervous

about using it.

<p>The M3 is an excellent camera. The viewfinder's relatively large magnification (for a Leica) is a definite plus. You can also still find highly qualified technicians to service one, even though some of them were manufactured more than 50 years ago. The asking price for this particular example seems on the high side, though, especially in light of the aspects of its condition which Tim Carroll has pointed out above.<br>

I concur with the advice to consider shopping at KEH (www.KEH.com). Aside from being an occasional customer, I have no relationship with the firm, but they have an excellent reputation for rating their used equipment conservatively and accurately, and for providing good customer service in connection with any problems. <br>

The KEH web site currently advertises M2 bodies from $449 to $1,219, depending on condition; M3 bodies from $364 to $919, depending on condition; and 50mm f/2 lenses from $364 to $789 for older ones and $999 to $2,099 for newer ones, depending on condition. Unless you are exceptionally particular about equipment or seeking something collectable, you would probably be able to get an M3 body and an older 50mm f/2, both in EX condition, for about $2,000. (KEH defines EX as follows: " 'Excellent' 80-89% of original condition. Shows moderate wear for the age of the item. May have small dents and/or dings and slight finish wear. Glass may have slight marks, dust, anomalies and/or blemishes that will not affect picture quality.") You could either save a fair amount of money on this, or have enough left to buy an additional lens.<br>

Only you can decide what's right for you personally, but I hope you find some of the advice offered here to be helpful.</p>

<p>The only mint cameras are those that have never been so much as touched. All others are used to some degree or another. I agree with above advise and get a user from KEH. They have a good return policy so you won't get stuck with a lemon.</p>

<p>Uhmm, mint doesn't mean the same for cameras as it does for let's say coins. A mint coin has never been touched. A mint camera can have been touched and used, but is in pristine condition in all ways. But effectively, yes, why would you get a mint condition camera to shoot with.</p>

<p>But it's IN A BOX!</p>

<p>For the price, the seller should offer a nice glass display case, so the new owner, whom ever he or she may be, can in the middle of the night when every it, murmuring " my precious, my almost mint precious".</p>

<p>Not sure of the date you posted this inquiry but I have a friend with an M4-P outfit that would like to sell it as his age makes it a non-use item for him. The outfit is in impeccable condition. It is a 4 lens outfit. If you have not made a decision yet and would like to throw this into the mix of possibilities please let me know and I will forward all pertinent info, serial numbers etc. <br>

Rick</p>

<p> The M3 is old!<br>

It is my favorite M. Mine new in 1967..<br>

I also know one day the finder could be toast.The balsam glue now very brittle.<br>

Look at a M6TTL or M7, merely cause they are newer.<br>

The M6 finder sucks but it is usable. Really OK.<br>

KEH seems a good bet.The service specialists DAG and Sherry Krauter, might be good too..</p>