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7d vs 5d mk3


russell_t

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<p>Hi All,<br>

So some of you may have seen me post a few days ago about my equipment getting stolen. I had a 7D, an XSi, a lot of lenses, and other stuff stolen during a home robbery last week. I have my insurance check, so I am debating what to do. </p>

<p>I have been shooting a 7D for a year and a half; I primarily shoot sports. I have enough money to buy a 5d Mk 3, replacement lens, and some other stuff. Or I can buy a used 7D and have about $1,500 left over, to put toward my debts. I really *want* the 5d3, but will it really be that much more worth it? (I am looking at a 5d mk3 that is used that has about 40k actuations for $2300 vs a 7D I can get from a friend for about $800.) (By the way, I am getting a Sigma 24-70mm F2.8 IF EX DG HSM lens and I have a Sigma 80-200 f/2.8 DG lens.)</p>

<p>Or should I wait a month and see what is released at CP+, possibly a 7D Mk2?</p>

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It's not that the 7d didn't do something I

wanted, but my pictures were just

never that crisp. Mainly shooting sports

at ISO 3200-4000. Could have been

the lens also.

 

Is the quality of the 5d3 really worlds

better? Or will I be disappointed

thinking it's a lot better than it actually

is.

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<p>It's definitely better, especially at high ISO. If you're shooting sports you'll need to factor in the effective loss of focal length too. Your Sigma 80-200mm will be just that. On your 7D it would act like a 128-320mm. That's a very big difference. If you wait for a possible 7D MkII you will be paying top money for it as it will be new. </p>
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<p>If you don't get crisp pictures, you should first figure out what the problem is. At least three possible culprits come to mind... (1) F/2.8 zoom lenses are often not that great at 2.8, especially on the longer end - it could be you simply need a better lens. An example, from my own experience, is the old Canon EF 24-70 f/2.8 L, which at 70mm wasn't all that crisp. The version II is much better in this regard. (2) It could also be the that the AF misses by a bit, in which case a camera with a better AF may help (but you may also need one of the lenses introduced in the last couple of years, see <a href="http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-3a-canon-lenses">http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-3a-canon-lenses</a> for details). But a simple AF calibration may help as well. (3) The non-crispness may also be due to motion blur, in which case a camera with better ultra-high ISO performance (so you can use higher shutter speeds) may help. Finally, your expectations just may be a bit too high, or you may need to learn better post-processing techniques to get the apparent crispness you are after.<br /> One last comment, if you are starting from scratch, don't limit your search to Canon gear, you may also want to look at Nikon offerings. I am a long time Canon user, but if I were starting from scratch, I would give Nikon a good hard look before coming back to Canon.</p>
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<p>Thank you all for your input.</p>

<p>I shoot for a local adult sports league, so I am side line for the games... basketball, volleyball, flag football, soccer, inner tube water polo, etc...</p>

<p>I'm not going to wait for the 7d m2... I've been reading rumors for 2 years on this thing, lol. But I was thinking that if I did a 7D, then I could also buy a couple Einstein monolights, which I've been eying for a while. </p>

<p>Peter, I think one of the things is my old sigma 27-70 f/2.8 was the older non-HSM one, which is part of my problem. Some issues were motion blur, so I had to up my ISO to 4000-5000 sometimes, then I got very grainy images that were barely usable, even after post. </p>

<p>I'm starting to talk myself out of a 5d3... just because I could use the money for other things. So I'm also looking at the 70d... I don't want to change to Nikon because I have other accessories for Canon and it's just not feasible to repurchase all that stuff right now. </p>

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<p>I own both the 7D and the 5D MkIII and use them both to shoot wildlife, birds, landscape and travel. For sports the 5D3 is superior by a long shot, primarily due to it's incredibly accurate and consistent AF. Particularly in AI Servo mode, the 7D is very inconsistent. When I moved from the 7D to the 5D3, my bird in flight "keeper rate" more than doubled. The 5D3 will AF at f/8, making use of the EF 2.0x TC-III on your longer lenses.</p>

<p>The second major advantage of the 5D3 is it's high-ISO performance above ISO 800. IME, it's much cleaner at ISO 1600 and above.</p>

<p>If you've got the lenses and can afford it, then it's not even close. You will not regret moving to the 5D3.</p>

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<p>David, that's exactly the response I was looking for. Someone who had experience with both, doing similar shooting, and a good comparison. I really was about to just go with a 7 or 70D, but that response put the nail in the coffin for the 5d3. Thanks!</p>
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<p>Russell, I'll post up the results of the conversions I did of your file later (executive summary: you can have almost noiseless conversions <em>at 100% view</em> from DxO Optics Pro, so postcard-sized prints will be a doddle from it, Capture One 7 or Photo Ninja, the three converters I used), but as to the sharpness issue (which I admit I noticed in the file you provided), some thoughts.</p>

<p><strong>1</strong>. 1/200 is probably not enough for sharp shots;</p>

<p><strong>2</strong>. <em>Maybe</em> (I have no experience of the lens myself, so I'm just "putting it out there"), the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 isn't the ideal lens for the job - it's not an HSM (ultrasonic focus motor) lens;</p>

<p><strong>3</strong>. The 7D likes a bit of light and contrast for best AF results: the file you provided had a measured EV of 1, which might not be enough for the camera/lens combo in use;</p>

<p><strong>4</strong>. You might benefit from some AFMA.</p>

<p>And re: David's reported results when moving from the 7D to the 5D Mk III. Don't make the mistake of assuming that his experience is in any way representative of the 7D in general. As I've pointed out many times before, if I more than doubled my 7D keeper rate I'd be getting <em>almost</em> <strong><em>180%</em></strong> in-focus images!</p>

<p>I <em>hardly ever</em> get out of focus shots from my 7D, and I shoot birds in flight, moto-x, superbikes, aircraft, British Touring Cars and other fast motorsport, and rugby. No problem whatsoever.</p>

<p>Plenty sharp, I reckon:</p>

<p>http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/btcc_croft/bmw_1_croft.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/btcc_croft/ginetta_jr_2_croft.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/ncl_270713/lancaster_NCL_BW_5.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/moto-x/moto-x_cambois_pn_22a.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/moto-x/moto-x_cambois_Lr_1b.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/moto-x/moto-x_cambois_11.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/moto-x/moto-x_cambois_18.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/moto-x/moto-x_cambois_16.jpg<br /> http://www.kazemisu.me.uk/images/croft_1200_1.jpg<br>

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/SEO_1.jpg<br /> http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/pigeon_blyth_6.jpg<br /> <a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/1400/gannet_bempton_c17_1400_2.jpg">http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/1400/gannet_bempton_c17_1400_2.jpg</a><br /> http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/gannet_bempton_8b.jpg<br /> http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/hard_tackle.jpg</p>

<p>And I've got <em>thousands </em>more where these came from - the 7D's AF is <em>excellent. </em>It puts a grin on my face every time I use it.</p>

<p>I've had my 7D since December 2009, and - <em>believe me -</em> if it had AF issues, there's <em>no way</em> I'd still have it...</p>

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<p>Heri, do you shoot sports with a 70D? We're talking about the 5D MkIII, which has an AF system that blows the 70D in the weeds, has a current generation, full-frame sensor, etc. The 5D has been taking 1080 videos since 2008! In fact, the 5D led the charge into full-frame, 1080 video.</p>

<p>Where do you get that "better colors" crap. The man's going to be shooting Raw and the 5D3 will deliver stunning color.</p>

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<p>You know Keith, I have never looked into AFMA, but after Googling it, it seems that's what I certainly needed to have done to start. I also think that since it was a non-HSM lens, that was one of my problems as well (my keeper rate was significantly higher with my 80-200 HSM Sigma, albeit different sports - soccer, basketball, football, etc). </p>

<p>The gym is very poorly lit. Over Christmas, I got a 600 ws White Lightening which I am going to start practicing with bouncing off the ceiling, and had I gone with the 7D I probably would have bought a second (if needed).<br /><br>

<br>

I ordered one from LensRentals.com to try out, and if I like it they are going to sell it to me rather cheap. If not, I'll return it and buy a 7D; just be out $100. <br>

<br>

Regardless of which body I go with, this is opening up a very good learning opportunity for me, and I really appreciate everyone's help over the past week.<br /></p>

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<p>If you want to read about more people that have issues with the 7D's AF in AI Servo mode, go over to <a href="http://www.birdphotographers.net">www.birdphotographers.net</a> and search for 7D discussions. It's a common issue that Keith poo poos.</p>

<p>Since you had a 7D before, you know if your keeper rate is high enough for you. With many subjects, it'll be just fine. but the faster moving, the more it struggles with consistency. The 5D MkIII tracks much more accurately.</p>

<p>Since you use LensRentals, why not rent a 5D3? You can see for yourself how good the AF system really is.</p>

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<p>Oh, one thing, like Keith, I've gotten many stunning images with my 7D. It's a fine camera, BUT it's much easier to get the same quality with the 5D3 because of the superior AF system. I'm not saying that you can't get good images with the 7D. I'm saying that if your subjects are moving, then the 5D3 will do a much better job of tracking and getting the AF correct.</p>

<p>Here's a Set on Flickr with some of my more popular shots from 2013, mostly taken with the 5D3:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcstep/sets/72157632707601249/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcstep/sets/72157632707601249/</a></p>

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<p>Crap... I thought I had responded two days ago. I appreciate all the responses; Keith, I really look forward to learning about your noise reduction techniques!</p>

<p>Update: I got my 5d3 today in the mail from the rental place and shot a basketball game tonight. I like it... a lot. It is so more customizable beyond what my 7D ever was as far as AF (amongst other settings)... wow. Starting to look at my pictures in Lightroom, I have to say the noise isn't TOO much different at 3200 ISO. However, there are a LOT more pictures in focus than I got with my 7D. I will say though, the 1 FPS difference is very noticeable! </p>

<p>I'm shooting volleyball tomorrow, and a beer festival on Saturday. I'll post some pictures once I get a chance to go through them... it's been one hell of a week at work. Thank you all again!</p>

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