Photographer refuses to give photos

<p>We contracted, and paid in full, for full day of wedding photography and picture cd. Now photographer is not giving us the cd. He's stalling, and skirting our direct requests, talking about editing and proofs and other stuff that was not discussed in our package or our contract. We didn't want or request any work done on any shots. He's not requested any additional money - I guess legally he cannot not becuase of the contract. he's got the only record of our wedding and he's holding our pics hostage but not making demands. How can someone be so evil. What to do?</p>

<p>Need more info.</p>

<p>How long ago did the wedding take place? In other words, how long as the photographer been "withholding" the photos from you?</p>

<p>Have you seen <em>any</em> of the photos? Did he send you any example images by email or put a few in a gallery on the Web?</p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>Wedding was 5 weeks ago, contract states we'd have photos 3-4 weeks after. Since we didn't order prints, seems all he had to do was copy to cd (but i'm not a photographer so what do i know). We've seen nothing, but according to him the pictures are beautiful. </p>

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<p>talking about editing and proofs and other stuff that was not discussed in our package or our contract... ...He's not requested any additional money</p>

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<p><br />Its pretty standard, even if not spelled out fully in a contract, for a photographer to make sure their work is properly edited before delivery. Especially since clients who do not participate in the process may have complaints about the images later.</p>

<p>There's not enough information presented here to know if that is the issue but saying the photographer is "holding our pics hostage but not making demands" and that they are somehow "evil" suggests that the interpretation of the situation is questionable. I recommend asking the photographer how you can help with the editing and proof process so you can get your images instead of indulging in wild claims about them having evil and diabolical intentions.<br /><br /><br /><br /></p>

<p>pers vaca writes:</p>

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<p>Wedding was 5 weeks ago, contract states we'd have photos 3-4 weeks after. Since we didn't order prints, seems all he had to do was copy to cd (but i'm not a photographer so what do i know). We've seen nothing, but according to him the pictures are beautiful.</p>

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<p>There <em>are</em> photographers these days that take the pictures, burn 'em to CD and hand 'em over — often within a day or two. I've actually heard of a photographer who delivers the CD <em>right there at the end of the wedding.</em> It's called "shoot and burn." These photographers typically shoot JPEG in-camera and don't do any processing. At most they may make a quick pass through the images to remove the worst mistakes, but otherwise, you get it all. In my opinion, it's a terrible way to treat a client and it's killing the serious wedding photography business. </p>

<p>But presumably, <em>your</em> photographer is <em>not</em> a shoot-and-burner, or you'd have your photos. He may have shot Raw (that's generally the case) and Raw images always take a little bit of processing at least. And even minimal processing of Raw files can (easily) take hours and hours, especially if the photographer shot lots of photos. Especially if your photographer is not a full-time wedding photographer who shoots a wedding almost every week, then he may be struggling to find the time to finish the job properly.</p>

<p>That's of course just my guess and I'm not defending the photographer or denying that you have a right to be impatient. But although I always promise to provide the photos faster than expected, I myself have occasionally taken longer than promised, because I only know how to do this one way — well — and that takes time. By the way, "processing" doesn't mean "Photoshopping" or doing anything elaborate. It means converting the raw data that the camera captures into the best JPEG possible. That can include adjusting the color balance, recovering blown highlights and/or over-dark dark areas of the image, tweaking overall contrast or midrange contrast or clarity or definition, possibly a quick crop, and some sharpening.</p>

<p>Those are some of the things I typically do to every photo that I give to my clients. Now, I do NOT give my clients all the photos I take, but I have to go through all the photos I took to pick the ones I'm going to process. And processing each photo can easily take many minutes. Let's say it's about 5 minutes per photo (which in my case is probably about right). If I give the client, say, 200 photos, that comes out to 200 x 5 minutes = 1000 minutes = 16 hours spent on post-processing. For me, anyway, that sounds about right. That time would usually include the time it takes to do some other tasks like recalibrate my display, make backups, burn the CD, package the CD for delivery to the clients, etc. Some photographers are more efficient than I am and if I did this every weekend I'd have to get more efficient myself.</p>

<p>Anyway, I wouldn't assume <em>yet</em> that there's a problem other than the obvious: the photographer is having trouble finding the time to finish processing the images. And if your photographer is anything like me, he probably is keenly aware of the delay and feeling stressed about it already. And when I get stressed like that, I start thinking that I can't just send the photos now because I need to make them worth the wait and I know they're not perfect yet — so I spend MORE time on them. </p>

<p>Now, as I've gained experience over the years I've learned to give the client some of the photos as soon as possible. I usually have a gallery of some of the photos up within 10 days or less, and I may send a couple of images within a day or two after the wedding. But this all takes time too.</p>

<p>I am very grateful when my clients are patient with me and simply send me a gentle reminder that they're eager for the photos. Try that with your photographer and see if it helps. There could be other things going on in the photographer's life — illness, family problems, etc. A good photographer won't usually share his problems with you. After all, you can't help with them. But they may slow him down.</p>

<p>As I said, be as nice as you can, and perhaps ask if you can see some of the photos that have already been processed, and gently prod for the completion of the work.</p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>Will, <br>

Thank you for you perspective and well response. I think if there are other things going on, photographer should be up front. But back to the contract- the specified time frame has come and gone, we've seen none of the images (at this point we don't even know if there are any pictures), and the contract explicitly states all photos would be provided on disc and that there would be no editing done. While it doesn't say this in the contract, the intent was for my spouse and i to choose which photos to edit and process, what to put in albums , what to enlarge... -- not the photographer. We want to be patient but the photog is also not being forthcoming with info other than the photos look great, and he's also not directly addressing why the disc hans't been sent. We're being nice, but really who's holding the cards. Now it seems we've got to walk on eggshells to appease him. How long do you suggest to prod? He could very well ask for thousands of dollars more, and our choice is to pay or not get our pictures. LIke there is not in between - he either wants to give them or he doesn't. It's an awful position to be in.</p>

<p>Pers</p>

 

<blockquote><em>I think if there are other things going on, photographer should be up front.</em></blockquote>

<p>I do <em>not</em> disagree with you about that. I'm not defending the photographer at all, just trying to suggest that this <em>might</em> yet have a happy ending. I hope it does.</p>

<p>.</p>

<blockquote><em>But back to the contract- the specified time frame has come and gone, we've seen none of the images (at this point we don't even know if there are any pictures), and the contract explicitly states all photos would be provided on disc and that there would be no editing done.</em></blockquote>

<p>Really? The contract states explicitly that <em>no editing will be done</em>? Very odd, that.</p>

<p>I am inclined to guess that "no editing" means one thing to you (he copies the photos to a CD and gives them to you) and something different to the photographer. I guess I make a not too technical distinction between "editing", which involves things like removing blemishes or Exit signs above the bride's head etc, and "processing", which consists of the the more global adjustments I mentioned earlier. I always shoot weddings in Raw and I would never just hand over Aperture or Lightroom's default conversions of my raw files without at least looking at them.</p>

<p>Obviously I have no earthly idea what's going on with your photographer. I'm just imagining one possibility short of some sort of catastrophe.</p>

<p>.</p>

<blockquote>We're being nice, but really who's holding the cards. Now it seems we've got to walk on eggshells to appease him. How long do you suggest to prod?</blockquote>

<p>Oh, I'm not saying you have to be passive or walk on eggshells. I think it would be perfectly appropriate to call or better yet write and say something like, "We've waiting patiently for the photos from our wedding. You've assured us that they're great and that makes us all the more eager to see them. Our contract said you'd have the photos delivered to us within 4 weeks, and that deadline has come and gone. If there's some problem at your end, some reason why we can't get the photos by, say, September 15, please let us know. Please confirm that you got this email."</p>

<p>If he doesn't reply within a day, send a certified letter saying something similar to his mailing address or post office box.</p>

<p>And if neither of those steps gets a good response, well, then I'm sorry to say, you are apparently dealing with somebody who isn't just a little behind schedule and you might have to ask for your money back and/or consider legal action. But I hope it doesn't come to that, because nobody wins when that happens.</p>

<p>.</p>

<blockquote>He could very well ask for thousands of dollars more, and our choice is to pay or not get our pictures. Like there is not in between - he either wants to give them or he doesn't. It's an awful position to be in.</blockquote>

<p>Not sure I see why you're worried about him asking for more money. Sounds like you do have a contract, and gosh, if the contract is clear about anything at all, it should be clear about the cost for the delivery of the photos.</p>

<p>Look, some photographers — like just about every other sort of service person — are good at the photography and bad at one or more aspects of the business side. I'm hoping that you're dealing with somebody who's simply behind schedule.</p>

<p>Sorry you're having this problem. Good luck.</p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>p.s. I'm curious about one other thing. Please feel free to IGNORE this question if you wish you — I will understand, really I will. But I am curious, how much <em>did</em> you pay? And I assume you vetted the photographer beforehand. Was he experienced?</p>

<p>"the contract explicitly states all photos would be provided on disc and that there would be no editing done."<br /><br />It would be very unusual for a professional photographer to agree to such terms, especially if they are taken literally. You have to define "all" and "no editing."<br /><br />At the very least, any professional photographer concerned about his/her reputation would go through and delete photos that were out-of-focus, underexposed, overexposed, eyes closed, horrible/awkward expressions, shots where the flash didn't fire, the camera was pointed at the floor or ceiling or camera bag, etc. So you are almost never going to recieve literally "all" images that were shot. Beyond that, a professional would be certain to fix any gross errors in color balance (if the camera was set for indoor light and everything outside turned blue or was set for outdoors and everything shot indoors turned orange), exposure issues, not to mention the basic conversion from raw to jpg. All of this takes time.<br /><br />Other than being a week late on delivery it doesn't sound like the photographer has done anything wrong, at least not yet.</p>

<p>He was recommended thru word of mouth, we saw his (hopefully they were his) samples and website (won't share prices). not sure about definitions and any technical terms but we just want the photos. nothing more nothing less. I would never have dreamed that he would not honor the contract by not give photos, so just questioning his motive. maybe he wants more money. maybe not. hard to say since he's not saying anything at all. we do not want the money back, but cannot afford to pay any price. we just want the pictures and hopefully we will get them. </p>

<p>I agree with Craig S.'s comments (and John H.'s). But I would disagree just a little with Craig about this. He says,</p>

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<p>Other than being a week late on delivery it doesn't sound like the photographer has done anything wrong, at least not yet.</p>

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<p>Suppose that might be true if the standard for <em>doing the right thing</em> was set completely and exhaustively by the terms of the contract, but of course it never is.</p>

<p>I have tried to encourage the O.P. not to panic yet. I myself have been late delivering final images to the client, more than once. "Attended" a three-day webinar earlier in the summer with Yervant, one of the leading wedding photographers in the world, and he confessed that he too occasionally runs late. But I have to say on my own behalf that I was also more communicative with the client than this photographer seems to have been — and as I said earlier, even if I've been a little bit late mailing the CD, I've always shared a selection of photos with the client well within the time period prescribed. I bet the same is true with every successful photographer. Communication is crucial. And this photographer doesn't sound like he's a very good communicator. I hope that's all it is.</p>

<p>Will</p>

Set up a meeting in person. No emails ot texting. It's past this point.

<p>As others have said the photographer has likely just fallen behind slightly. Running a week behind is certainly frustrating but remember the photographer may be stressed trying to polish off some great photos for you. I don't know why you seem to think that the photographer is going to try to hold your photos hostage when he has done nothing at all to suggest that is the case. People miss deadlines in every industry and photography is not different. You certainly have the right to ask for an idea of when to expect the photos but I think you should try to avoid thinking that the photographer is trying to extort additional money from you, this could offend a photographer whose only crime is being a week late. </p>

 

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<p>While it doesn't say this in the contract, the intent was for my spouse and i to choose which photos to edit and process, what to put in albums , what to enlarge... -- not the photographer.</p>

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<p>You kind of contradict yourself by saying that the contract said all photos and no editing and then this. If it didn't say in the contract how do you expect the photographer to know that this was your intention. As others have said there are many photographers (I count myself among them) that avoid giving un-processed photos to clients to view because it is an incomplete reflection of their work. He probably wouldn't want to give you unprocessed photos because you may share photos that he feels are a poor reflection of his work. <br>

Anyway in conclusion I think you should just contact the photographer in whatever way you are comfortable and say that you are really hoping to have them soon. Gently remind him that the timeline stipulated in the contract has passed. However I would refrain from getting worried that the photographer is attempting to ransom your photos.</p>

<p>I know I've blabbed more than enough here already but two more small points.</p>

<p>First, Bob Bernardo suggested a face-to-face meeting. To which I say, yes, absolutely and of course. I would have suggested it myself — that or a phone call — but my impression from your original post was that you were having trouble getting any response at all from the photographer.</p>

<p>Second, to put this in perspective: We occasionally get a visit here from an unhappy bride who, in some cases, has gone six months or more without getting her photos. THAT is a problem. But you're nowhere near that now.</p>

<p>Will</p>

<p>There was a thread only a week or two ago with almost the same situation related in the same way by another OP. </p>

<p>I think the first thing that needs to be established is this photographers professionalism. The fact that he agreed to hand over all images unedited puts that into question. Do you get a feel for how many weddings he has photographed from his website. Is he a full-time photographer or just someone wanting to make a few extra dollars from his hobby on the weekend.<br /><br />If he is a full-time photographer who has shot many weddings then chances are that he has just got himself snowed under and is working as hard as he can to get your images to you. </p>

<p>If he just in it to make a few extra dollars on the weekend and he's already been paid, then he is holding all the cards. He still can't morally or legally blackmail you for more money. You are however at his mery as to when you will get your images as bad publicity the only card your holding doesn't carry much weight with a non-professional. </p>

<p>Does he have a Facebook page that you can post a friendly reminder that your still waiting on your photos and ask him if there is a reason for the delay. Otherwise ring him and ask him these same questions. No need to walk on egg shells but also no need to charge like a wounded bull.<br /><br /><br /><br>

Good luck.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>the first thing that needs to be established is this photographers professionalism. The fact that he agreed to hand over all images unedited puts that into question... ...If he is a full-time photographer who has shot many weddings then chances are that he has just got himself snowed under and is working as hard as he can to get your images to you.</p>

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<p>We're told the contract calls for no editing after being told there it says there is a three to four week turn around to get images. Why would there need to be any delay if there were really no editing at all. That wouldn't even take three to four days or even three to four hours. It seems unlikely we are being told the whole accurate story here.</p>

<p>William makes a good point that the photographer should be communicating better. If he had simply told Pers everything we've all said for him, this might not have gotten to the point of an upset couple to start with.<br /><br /></p>

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<p>William makes a good point that the photographer should be communicating better. If he had simply told Pers everything we've all said for him, this might not have gotten to the point of an upset couple to start with.</p>

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<p>I'm not sure the communication problem is with the photographer. He's accused of "stalling" but then described as "talking about editing and proofs and other stuff" which suggests there has, indeed, been some kind dialogue along the lines or our discussion. The we are told "he's holding our pics hostage but not making demands". which makes no sense. Plus the aforementioned multi-week contractual turnaround which makes little sense for something were are told has "no" editing of any kind.</p>

<p>The description of the situation seems rather skewed.</p>

<p>One of the first things I do when finishing a wedding is send a sample and a delivery schedule. I state a realistic time frame in my contract, and note that this may extend in busy periods, and that the client will be informed. Which I do eitherway, just so they know what's going on. For me, 2-4 weeks is pretty normal.</p>

<p>Eitherway, the photography has let you down by not communicating this properly and not setting expectations properly with you. But please don't jump way ahead. I'd go along with some of the other suggestions, eg phone call / face-to-face. But it's only 5 weeks, that's really not a very long time. If it's 6 months then there would be a real problem (you do here of such cases). But try to talk to him directly, get a schedule, and just ease up a little. </p>

<p>When I did my first paid wedding, it took me 2-3 weeks of 8 hour days to edit all the photos. I had no idea how much work it would be.</p>

<p>Fortunately,</p>

<ol>

<li>I had a very nice bride. She was a total angel.</li>

<li>I had no other work at the time.</li>

<li>My editing skills have improved dramatically since then. My work is much better and I am at least 4x faster than I was.</li>

</ol>

<p>Please be patient. Editing is an important part of the artistic process.</p>