Nikon Pure Photography

<p>With the AF-ON and round viewfinder it would be more than the D610 IMO. This Df sounds pro, the D610 less so. I somehow have some doubts if this will be the new D700 replacement. On one side it's a retro as in a "pure" camera and then one wants a great viewfinder which looks like it has but they also want fast responsive dynamic AF system and a fast fps ..... That's like a F100 and a manual focus body together.</p>

<p>Lannie, it's a hopeful prediction! However, I'm still not sure what's being FUSED here?</p>

<p>Unless we're all being taken for a real ride, it isn't what I currently want which would be a D700 replacement.... although I suppose that's a D4, which I can't justify the cost.</p>

<p>I still wonder how much the D700 stole from the D3 sales? I guess the D3S put a swift end to any sales losses due to the D700. The D3's a fine camera but the D3S is so much better....and, sadly, prices reflect that.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>[C]learly Nikon is planning to introduce some new FX body or bodies on November 5.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Shun's quote (<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=24372">Shun Cheung</a> <a href="/member-status-icons"><img title="Moderator" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/mod.gif" alt="" /><img title="Subscriber" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub10plus.gif" alt="" /><img title="Frequent poster" src="/v3graphics/member-status-icons/3rolls.gif" alt="" /></a>, Nov 01, 2013; 08:18 p.m.) reminds us that we have no reliable source for knowing very much at all about what is going to be announced on November 5. The rumor sites have tended to speak of one camera, and they have emphasized retro, but has Nikon said or implied that only one body is going to be released, and has Nikon said that only retro styling and function are in the offing? I have not watched the videos carefully enough to know. The word "it" (singular) is used in at least one video, as I recall, but are we reading too much into that? These are teasers, after all, and teasers serve a marketing function. Only the actual announcement promised by Nikon on November 5 can tell us all what we want to know--even those of us who cannot possibly afford to buy anything right now. Has Nikon ever made multi-product announcements before? Is the upcoming trade show going to showcase one or more Nikon bodies? Does anyone have any way of knowing? I certainly do not.</p>

<p>It would be nice to have more than one model released, since it is clear from all these two hundred fifty or so comments over a nine-day period (since the morning of October 24 to this morning) that no one model could possibly please everybody. Nikon had to know that, of course.</p>

<p>Nikon's teasers have gotten us all to start expressing our wishes and desires, and they have served the function of getting us to talk and speculate--and above all <em>to wait </em>for the announcement before we buy the new Sony (or whatever). We have (for the most part) tried to infer what is being implied from the facts as released by Nikon, and so I believe that this discussion has been a good one--certainly several notches above the discussions on the rumor sites. Even so, at this late date, we still don't know very much, do we? We don't know a thing, for example, about specs--and that is what most of us are waiting to hear. Only the rumor sites have printed "specs," in their usual authoritative tone.</p>

<p><br />As for Sony and other rivals, Nikon had to put this advertising campaign into motion months before we heard about the new Sony or any other model or brand. (How good are the corporate spies in the camera world?)</p>

<p>Nikon really pulled a marketing coup on this one. Now we can only wait and see if the announced product(s) is or are worth all of the hullabaloo. It's been fun, though, even for those of us who are only window shopping.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

I've never seen the magical appeal for the D4 sensor in a consumer body. After downsampling, the high

ISO performance is very similar to the D610 and D800. At the high ISO end I believe there's a small edge (I

seem to have trouble getting at the detailed view on DxO using my tablet), but it's not much. I really think

most consumers would be better with the flexibility of 24MP, though I still think a "small raw" mode might

remove some reservations. I can see the benefit to a lower resolution to a sports shooter needing to

process thousands of shots on a schedule, and it obviously makes the camera faster and increases the

buffer, but I don't think a D4 sensor in a camera designed for slower more methodical use would be

anything but a downgrade from the D610's. Which may be how Nikon position it, of course.

 

Now, I don't have a D4 (offers?) so I could be missing the magic. Or, if this is a below-D610 model, maybe

Nikon are ditching stocks of the D4 sensor while preparing the D5? (I wonder whether that was the plan

with the D700, back in the days before the D3s launch.)

 

Mike: remember the D700 with a grip can hit 8fps. I'd be astonished if it didn't steal some D3 sales - I

certainly decided between them, if only because the D3 price dropped so much after the D700 release. I've

seen used D3 and D700 bodies go at the same price. I'm curious whether anyone's still buying the D3x - I

still see occasional adverts, and think "good luck" to retailers with stock.

 

Anyway, what's going on behind the scenes could be anything. I'll be interested to find out, come Tuesday.

<p>OK, some more speculation here - if this is indeed a DF (for Digital Fusion) then maybe the "fusion" aspect stems from Nikon delivering essentially two cameras in a retro-styled body. One that relies on the old-fashioned dials but can morph into something more akin to the contemporary DSLR by using the command dials - without the command-center functionality of the top LCD (which of course could be duplicated on the back LCD). <br>

One thing seems certain - the body style will not allow for a large battery, so capacity will be limited. Incidentally, that's exactly why I don't believe that this camera will have an EVF - it would drain said small battery in no time at all. <br>

It might have a hybrid-shutter (to address the rumored hybrid aspect) - mechanical when the camera is used in "retro"-mode; electronically, when used in "modern" mode? AKA, the FM3A "hybrid" shutter? When in retro mode, the camera could then save battery juice by powering the internal electronics only.</p>

<p>I tend to agree that some of the features on the body could point to a higher price point - but it's mere speculation since the specs aren't known yet. As Shun said, just a few more days until the reveal... Might even be another video tonight - though #6 could also be the official release video and be shown next week.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Has Nikon ever made multi-product announcements before?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Simultaneous announcement of D3/D300 comes to mind.</p>

Dieter - I'm not sure I buy the small battery argument, given that the D800 and V1 (evf) share a battery, and

it's not that big. There's certainly no reason an evf should use more power than your average compact with

an LCD. But I would be surprised if there were a prism that size and shape with no optics (if Nikon followed

Sony). Overlays in the Fuji style are another matter, but they cost money. As for hybrid mechanicals, I'd be

more than astonished. But frankly I'm pretty surprised by any of this: I wouldn't have called a 58 f/1.4 and

a D5300 either, before a 100D competitor, a sub-D3200, a D7100 with a bigger buffer or a D300s

successor and a D5 (and a VR 300 f/4, 130 f/2 respin and a refresh of the pro zooms). So I guess it's clear

that I'm unqualified to run a multinational company!

<p>I am surprised that so many people keep on talking about EVF (Electronic ViewFinder), perhaps due to the misleading info on those rumor sites.</p>

<p>In order to have EVF, the image from the lens has to be constantly hitting the sensor to generate the electronic image, to display inside the viewfinder. The traditional SLR mirror, which blocks the lens' image from the sensor/film and EVF are mutually exclusive; you cannot have both. Sony manages to have EVF on the recent DSLRs because they use a semi-transparant pellicle mirror, not a conventional SLR mirror. To put it bluntly, the pellicle mirror was something both Canon and Nikon had tried before and abandoned.</p>

<p>Speaking of the D4, DPReview.com has never done a full review of that camera, although it does have a full review of the D3s. One can, however, make some limited comparisons by clicking on<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d600/21"><strong> THIS LINK</strong></a> and leaving the D600 and D800 as displayed, but then dialing in the D3s and the D4 on the bottom two pictures--and thus compare four Nikon sensors at various ISOs.</p>

<p>Even if one sets them all at 12,800, both the D3s and the D4 look very, very good--although the D800 is no slouch, either. (Nor is the D600/D610, for that matter, although it tends to do better at lower ISOs.)</p>

<p>Now, when one considers that that little rectangle is a tiny part of the entire file (top of same page), one begins to get a feel for why people still buy the D700 and D3s on eBay. I have been absolutely blown away by the D3s that I bought this summer, and the D4 image as viewable on the page above shows that the D4 is even better at 12,800 ISO--overall. (I suppose that the D3s looks a bit cleaner, but that is more than made up for by the resolution increase in going from the D3s to the D4.)</p>

<p>I have the D800E and a used D3s, but in most cases how much real joy and how much real quality are added by all of those megapixels for <em>most</em> pictures made by <em>most</em> people? Now look at how the D4 images look and ask the question again? (Remember processing time when you think about relative joy in addition to quality.)</p>

<p>I am a resolution freak, have been ever since my dad gave me a Tasco 60mm telescope at the age of thirteen, but we are at the point that 16 mp (reliably delivered on full frame) gives very, very good results. Heck, I was <a href="/photo/17583873&size=lg"><em><strong>printing 13x19 with my 5-mp Olympus E-20 a decade ago</strong></em></a>. How good is good enough? I would not want to give up my D800E, but I have been blown away by the D3s.</p>

<p>All of that is why I believe that Nikon might come through on this new camera with a D4 sensor in it.</p>

<p>Sorry to be so long-winded at getting that simple point out.</p>

<p>In any case, for <a href="/photo/17505721&size=lg"><em><strong>straight photography that gives great results but is always fun to shoot</strong></em></a>, there is nothing quite like having that high ISO capability when one needs it. How compulsive do we want to get about more megapixels for most applications?</p>

<p>How good is good enough? As I said earlier, Canon has not gone beyond 22mp, and I am not even sure that most shots require that--even for printing.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>Andrew, I am going by my experience with the NEX 6 which eats batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner. That is to say that one battery is not allowing for a day of shooting, not even a half day (around 300 images per charge if memory serves). You could be right though, I forgot that the D800 battery fits the V1 as well.<br>

<br />It's hard to tell from the video, but the viewfinder to me appears no bigger than the one from the F3.<br>

Shun, I believe the idea is to be able to lock the mirror up to use the camera with EVF. But that opens the question of AF - would at least require a sensor with phase detection capabilities like the 70D has.<br>

And the answer is ... ? Soon on this screen.</p>

<p>PS: seem to recall a few reports that consider the battery life of the V1 to be quite short - so the EVF takes its toll.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"PS: seem to recall a few reports that consider the battery life of the V1 to be quite short - so the EVF takes its toll."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'll occasionally disable the rear screen and use only the EVF to extend battery life for a long session. Heavy use of the rear screen, particularly with video, seems to drain the battery. But the EVF doesn't seem to be a particular burden on the battery.</p>

 

<p>I'm ready for a camera that has the dimensions of the F3HP, build quality, 24MP, smart ergonomics, more metallic incorporated, retro, or not, I'm ready for a Nikon that's built to last, verses the plastic crap that everybody whines about. The cycle of stamping out models every other year, built for obsolescence culture doesn't do well for a company. Isn't it time to prove that they can build something that lasts? Is there a reason why the Megapixel war should continue? It's futile. This whole teaser thing can be taken with grains of salt, and we're having our fun with it, some may disagree what fun is, or isn't, but from what we're seeing here in the pictures of this camera, this looks promising. </p>

<p>It sure would be nice to use a split focusing screen on a big digital. The viewfinder has to be pretty bright for that to work very well.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>I had a split screen on my D200 and D700 and I thought they were useful for manual focusing, however they weren't like my FE. So who knows maybe the new Df will focus more like the old manual focus cameras. That would be great, on the other hand I am not in the market for a new camera.</p>

<p>Okay, so, has Nikon been purified yet?</p>

<p>Dan, the only pure camera is a <em><a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/LongExposurePinhole.jpg">pinhole.</a></em><br>

<em> </em><br>

--Lannie</p>

<p>Matt Granger's <a href=" video</strong></a> spoofing Nikon's "pure photography" campaign is pretty funny.</p>

I turn my back for five minutes and this thread thunders on...

 

 

Lannie: thank you, now I know the interactive widget in dpreview works on Android. :-)

 

 

Shun: I assume the "evf" would involve the option of showing live view through the conventional finder, like

the Fuji rangefinder-style cameras. I imagine it could be done, possibly by projecting through the front

element of the prism. I'm not expecting this, but it's possible.

 

 

I would expect any electronic finder to require a lot more power than a purely optical solution, since the

image processing pipe is running, but a large screen also pulls a lot of power (or the backlight does). So

with a small battery, I'd not expect DSLR battery life in this mode, but it shouldn't cripple the camera.

 

 

I'm not suggesting that everyone needs 36MP, but 24 seems a happy compromise. 16 is less than most

manufacturers are offering, including all of Nikon's much cheaper cameras. Sometimes resolution helps

(such as for the landscapes in the video). Assuming the camera isn't intended for pros who are limited in

processing time by a very large image count, 50% more pixels is unlikely to make the difference between

being prepared to wait for a computer and not (though I've always felt the same about the D800). Unless

you're really only using iffy 1970s lenses, 24MP is well within a range that improves image quality - unlike,

arguably, the D800e, whose benefits are small unless the glass is very good.

 

 

Don: I didn't know people were whining about "plastic crap". Sure, my old 300D creaks a bit, but every

modern camera I've held is pretty solid. As many complain about the weight of a D800 as like the metal

build.

 

 

Phil: I'm fine with a split screen on a film camera (like my Pentax 645) or in a rangefinder. It does mean

you're stuck with focus-and-recompose, though, and that affects image quality by modern standards

unless you compensate like Hasselblad's gyro solution. Fine as an accessory, but the single focus point's

time has passed. Focus peaking - maybe by actually having a high resolution LCD in the place of the

current AF indicators, on the other hand...

 

 

Pinholes diffract and vignette. The only pure camera is to recreate the scene on a computer and render it.

<blockquote>

<p>Shun: I assume the "evf" would involve the option of showing live view through the conventional finder, like the Fuji rangefinder-style cameras. I imagine it could be done, possibly by projecting through the front element of the prism. I'm not expecting this, but it's possible.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Again, as I pointed out, that is technically impossible with a conventional SLR mirror. The Fuji X100/X100S is not even an SLR.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>is technically impossible with a conventional SLR mirror</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Who said they have to use a conventional mirror ? </p>

<p>Personally, I wouldn't care if it had an EVF, but it's ability to show a preview of what your result will be, would be pretty darn cool, if I wouldn't have to give up a real view finder to get it. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>The sixth (and final) video is now available. There is no new information on it.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>Yeah. This last video is just a " Bring it all together " clip. I suspect there won't be another, until the release date on the 5th.</p>

<p>Whether they bring out a camera I want or can afford or sells a lot, they have done a pretty good job of getting us intrigued about what EVER this will be. All I can say, by all the hints, is that this camera probably won't have video and won't have fast FPS. This camera is for other uses. Which suits me fine. That won't make everyone happy, but I think Nikon already HAS cameras for people who want those things. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I suspect there won't be another, until the release date on the 5th.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Correct - it says so on the Nikon website: <em>This is the concluding episode of the series</em>.</p>

<p>Video 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUu9fPzicBo<br>

"every frame is meaning full again"<br>

And there's a physical ISO dial.<br>

Gotta be film.</p>

<p>Df - digital film? Interchangeable, hahaha. Digital sensor not included, optional upgrade. Maybe video 7 will arrive soon and video 8 is the final annoucement video?</p>