Portable 6X6 Rangefinder

<p>Hello community!<br>

I am having a hard time finding a camera for my a project. Mostly because of pricing i guess.</p>

<p>I am looking for a camera similar to the Mamiya 6 or even the Fuji GF670.</p>

<p>What the camera must have:<br>

<strong>6x6</strong><br>

<strong>Built in lightmeter</strong><br>

<strong>Good ISO choices</strong> (up to 800 or 1600 even)<br>

<strong>Portable/Light</strong> (none of the traditional MF like the 500CM, those are way too heavy)<br>

<strong>Budget $500-700 </strong>(ready to shoot, includes lens/viewfinder/etc)</p>

<p>So far everything i find is either so old i'm not interested because they lack a built in lightmeter, or good ISO choices (aka the russian folders), or too expensive ($1500-$2500 for the Mamiya 6, Bessa III, Fuji GF670, etc).</p>

<p>Anything i haven't looked at? I saw Fujica had the 645, 670, 680 and 690... But not '660'?? That's very weird.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>For starters, what's the nature of the project?<br>

Think you might need a bigger budget and/or be willing to consider an SLR like the Bronica SQ series.<br>

What's wrong with a handheld meter?</p>

<p>"<strong>Good ISO choices</strong>" - ISO is a function of the film used, not the camera. There's no film available with a true ISO speed of 1600, although that number might be printed on the box.</p>

<p>Are you really going to print square or use all of the 6x6 frame? If not, then a 645 camera could deliver the exact same image quality. A quick search showed several Fuji 645 models available used, and for a price well within your budget.</p>

<p><strong>"Built in lightmeter" - </strong>Do you mean just a built in uncoupled lightmeter, or automatic exposure? That's going to make a big difference to your choices and budget.</p>

<p>The Fujifilm GF670 Rangefinder Folding Camera and Voigtlander BESSA III 667W Medium Format Rangefinder Camera are the only two new med format rangefinders but neither is anywhere near your price range. Our site has a used <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800960973-USE/mamiya_215050_6mf_medium_format_rangefinder.html">Mamiya 6MF Medium Format Rangefinder Camera</a> but the body is $700.00 so with a lens it's also ouside your range.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br />B&H Photo-Video</p>

 

<p>could the Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta iv (534/16) fit the bill ?</p>

<p>Your choices: <br>

add $300 to your budget and with a little patience (a few weeks, I'd say) you'll find a Mamiya 6 or 7 with an 80mm lens to meet your budget. </p>

<p>skip the idea of an internal meter -- with this one requirement removed you have a world of choices of folders and fuji medium format w/ fixed lens</p>

<p>go to 645 format</p>

<p>A lot depends upon your project, which you have not mentioned. For instance, a Mamiya 6 is very silent and is quite small with its 75mm standard lens. While it is outside your budget, if you need those qualities as well as an excellent lens, it can be had in excellent or excellent minus condition for just under 1000$ (a mint example would be closer to 1200 or 1300$). If you intend on more than just one project (And if your project is of relatively short duration you can always rent a MF RF camera) the price may be worth it in the long run.</p>

<p>For 700$ you can pick up a fixed lens Fujifilm GW 670 III (6x7cm negative) and have 100$ im that budget for a good used small handheld meter that yiou can wear with a neckstrap (I use an incident light meter for much of my work). The Fuji is noisier in operation than the Mamiya 6 but it is quite rugged and has a very fine 90mm f3.5 lens. It is bulkier than the Mamiya 6, as might be expected with the large negative size.</p>

<p>These are more recent (1990s) cameras and to my mind a better bet for the long term than the older folders, some of which, even with noble names, may not be as well maintained as required. </p>

<p>Some answers:<br>

Nature of the project: Work for a private gallery.<br>

As for the built-in light meter: Yes i need it built in. Why? Because i need it built-in so i'm not dangling anything around my neck (already fully loaded with other equipment). Trying to keep it light + practical.<br>

@Rodeo High-ISO has to do with the light meter measuring the scene properly. No point shooting film 1600 and having the light meter only go up to 640.<br>

The light meter needs to be built in. It can be uncoupled, but built-in (no hot shoe one).<br>

Yes i'm printing square, which is why i want a 6x6. I'm not making this 'on the go', this has been figured out over years of shooting, printing, etc.<br>

@ Carlo, thanks but the ISO only goes to 640 sadly. I found that one awhile back, and thought i finally found something, but left disappointed.</p>

<p>To everyone, thanks for the suggestions, but like i stated in the original posts, i can't 'change' my requirements since they are dictated by the project for the gallery. That's why they are requirements. If anyone comes up with something, please let me know.</p>

<p>With respect, you're being a bit unreasonable(OK, make that very unreasonable) about not using a handheld incident light meter. There's also no need to shoot ISO1600 film(?). Meters in anything you find will likely be inaccurate and all will be reflected light meters--not the best for this type of work. Your "requirements" seem a bit ill-advised, frankly.</p>

<p>With respect, you have no idea what i'm doing, and i'm not sure why you think you know better what i need??? Like i stated, those requirements are dictated by the project i'm doing for a private gallery exposition. Not my choices or i would stick to my usual film or digital equipment.<br>

I guess you guys get a lot of clueless amateurs on here, and if that's the case, i understand your answers. You are wasting your time treating me like one though (been around the block quite a few times).<br>

I do appreciate you trying to help though.<br>

I just grabbed a KIEV 60M set, for $200. If that doesn't do the trick, then i'll simply grab a Fuji GF670. I'm just not too happy with splurging $1500 for it, especially just after replacing my 70-200 with the new one from Nikon.</p>

<p>Voigtlander make a new 6x6 folding Bessa III film camera.</p>

<p>Its outstanding.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I guess you guys get a lot of clueless amateurs on here</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>From my experience on this site, arrogance and aggressive responses from someone who is first posting on the site is not seen too often here, nor is it usual from regular posters.</p>

<p>Thankfully.</p>

<p>A working Kiev should be fine as the lenses are very good, if cumbersome. Not quite small in my book. I usually have a 6x6 Zeiss Ikonta in my bag for all trips. No ligthmeter or rangefinder but from over two years of use I am now used to guessing distances as well as guessing the light. Indoors, the light may be a problem.<br>

I was wondering if you have smartphone? The app lightmeters may be a stop gap situation since most people tend to carry a phone on them these days?</p>

<p>"<em>With respect, you have no idea what i'm doing, and i'm not sure why you think you know better what i need??? Like i stated, those requirements are dictated by the project i'm doing for a private gallery exposition. Not my choices or i would stick to my usual film or digital equipment.</em><br /><em> I guess you guys get a lot of clueless amateurs on here, and if that's the case, i understand your answers. You are wasting your time treating me like one though (been around the block quite a few times)</em>."</p>

<p>Love it when first-time posters here treat us like a coin-op machine that's kicked when it doesn't "deliver" for them. Think you've got some entitlement issues, bro--among others, I'm guessing.</p>

<p>Good luck with that Kiev, too.</p>

<p>Why not a tlr? Yashicas are cheap.</p>

<p>Check out the Kiev for:<br>

1) Overlapping frames - it has no proper frame-spacing mechanism.<br>

2) Light leaks - the back isn't very rigid or secure and see point 5.<br>

3) If using flash check that the synch socket is reliable - mine was intermittent on two samples.<br>

4) Check the accuracy of focus.<br>

5) It <em>will</em> suffer from mirror bounce - i.e. the mirror has no brake and flaps down again briefly after it's supposed to have flipped up.<br>

6) Metering prism? Again you need to check its accuracy.<br>

Sorry, but my own experience with Kievs has been all bad. Those things appear to be flung together and shoved out of the factory totally unadjusted and untested.</p>

<p>I'll repeat that there is no film available with a true ISO of 1600. Anything higher than that is just underexposure that needs push processing. That's why some camera meters sensibly stop at 640. But you can always set the shutter or aperture 1 and 1/3rd stops lower than suggested by the meter to get the equivalent exposure of 1600 ISO. As for built-in meters - I've never yet found one that was reliable, and for the very reason that you can't take it off the camera and point it closely at the subject. Or better yet take an incident reading with one. TTL is a different matter.</p>

 

<p>I tried to be courteous (telling people you know what you need for your own project isn't arrogance, it's base on experience and thinking before posting), but it seems it's lost in the void of the internet. Oh well not that it really matters...<br>

@Francisco Thanks, it's available locally here, it's great, but it's very expensive. They want $3000 here.<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=7150947"><br /></a><br>

@Mike i have both a Rollei and a Yashica. Excellent camera's, but for this project the waist finder simply won't work.<br>

@Rodeo Thank you. I did do research and found those to be a problem which is why i am buying from the US, with a guarantee, a Kiev 60M that just received a CLA. I'm only worried about the weight... But at $200, it's cheap to try. As for the light meter i don't need a super accurate one (or i would use one from the studio), but i do need one that puts me in the ballpark since the targets will be just complicated enough that sunny16 won't be accurate enough.<br>

Thanks for the people contributing to this thread!</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Ronan, if you need eye level viewing and you have a late model Rollei with detachable hood then the pentaprism works really well. I owned an F3 Xenotar with many accessories and the pentaprism with the pistol grip (if you can't use a tripod) makes a really functional package (and also a very effective club if you're ever attacked). </p>

<p>pentaprisms $100<br>

<a href="http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=rolleiflex+pentaprism&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=rolleiflex+prism&_sacat=0">http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=rolleiflex+pentaprism&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=rolleiflex+prism&_sacat=0</a></p>

<p>grip $100</p>

<p><a href="http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=rolleiflex+prism&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=rolleiflex+grip&_sacat=0">http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=rolleiflex+prism&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=rolleiflex+grip&_sacat=0</a></p>

<p>@Mike Thanks! I found that option a month or so ago, and almost tried it.<br>

What held me back was that it would be very cumbersome. I might still try it... looks cool haha </p>

<p>Actually, it's amazingly comfortable. The grip is a really nice fit to the hand and it has a built-in cable release, so all you have to use to fire the shutter is your index finger from the same hand holding the grip. It is a bit heavy, though, due to the solid glass prism. The neck strap is a useful addition, as well, for when your hand gets tired of holding it.</p>

<p>The Kiev 60 might just work out, if you were lucky enough to get a good one. My Arax 60 (a modified and re-built Kiev) has been quite reliable after several years of use. However it doesn't really meet one of the OP's criteria: "<strong>Portable/Light</strong> (none of the traditional MF like the 500CM, those are way too heavy)" as it's larger and heavier than that camera.<br>

<br>

</p>

It (Kiev 60) also does not have a <b>Built in lightmeter</b>, so also no <b>Good ISO choices (up to 800 or 1600 even)</b>, and it isn't a rangefinder. ;-)

<p>Q. G.,</p>

<p>They usually come with a meter prism. The meter isn't coupled, so a little calculation can account for any ISO you want beyond what's marked. Surely anyone with the OP's vast experience can do that in his head.</p>

<p><em>"...I guess you guys get a lot of clueless amateurs on here, and if that's the case, i understand your answers. You are wasting your time treating me like one though (been around the block quite a few times..."</em><br>

<em><br /></em>An experienced pro knows eg how to handle ISO settings and how to compensate from ISO 800 to 1600, so from your question you seemed to be an amateur.^^</p>