ECN-2 Versus c-41

This is my first time posting. I did search around, and I hope I am not asking

the same question twice.

 

I am a still photographer only (to date), and in the last month or two I have

been shooting 16mm plus-x loaded into a 4"X5" view camera. The results give me

an image broken up into 6 slivers of 16mm film which have near 4x5 quality w/ an

"artistic" edge to them.

 

I recently showed my idea to a film professor at school, and he suggested that I

use 5246 250D for color prints. The problem I have seen is the difference

between ECN-2 versus C-41 processing, and that it is very hard to find ECN-2

chemicals in small quantities if at all.

 

Since I am cutting the 16mm film into 5 inch strips, I think it will be hard to

find a processor willing to do it for me. I would be pressed to use up 150 feet

this semester! What I am wondering is if there is anyway I can develop it with

c-41 here at school by tweaking one or any of the steps. Or, if there is a lab

which might sell small quantities of chems to me. If it was processed c-41, how

would it turn out, if at all?

 

Thanks for any help or suggestions, I really appreciate it. This project could

truly benefit from some color prints.

 

Ryan

You have to remove the antihalation layer first (remjet). I believe it will mess up your c41 processor real bad.

But if you do remove it before processing, I believe you would get some results, just not sure what kind of results, probably not close to how it should be.

Use Ektachrome 100D reversal film (7285 in 16mm or 5285 in 35mm). No rem-jet backing, so far as I can see. It uses E-6 processing, so your local dip & dunk lab can process it. (Yes, you are supposed to use cine E-6 processing, but for this purpose it should be fine.) Or, if you want clear margins instead of black margins, cross-process it in C-41.

 

Hopefully you can get short ends of this, and it won't be too large a capital investment.

 

Or, cheat and do it in digital post-production...

Also try here they sell short ends of Negative and positive films that don't have remjet backing.

 

http://www.tapesuperstore.com/

 

larry

Thank you everyone.

 

Larry, which films do not have the rem-jet backing? I see that the kodak intermediate films don't and that print films don't either (I have a feeling these are the same types of film..?)

 

Thanks again

 

ryan

When I used to process 5247 in C41 (after use in a 35mm still camera), I had no problem with the process or the results, but I removed the rem-jet after fixing. It seemed to stay in place for processing in a film tank until it was rubbed (by hand) in a 10 gallon vat of warm water just before the final wash. I know the machine process, removes it first as the relatively rough handling might dislodge some of it during process leaving particles to interfere with the rest of the process. (I once experimeted with removing it first in the dark and rinsing the film in successive vats of water, but I missed spots despite my best intent and wound up with scratches on the emulsion side 'cause I couldn't see what I was doing. (Since you don't have to use a reversal exposure through the back of the film as in K-14 - why not remove the rem-jet after the rest of the process?)

 

With your small strips it should be easy to do it after process. Do you have access to the kind of 4x5 film hangers that have clamps running the full length on opposite sides? Maybe you can do them using 4x5 dunk tanks.

Wonderful! It is great to hear that you have had luck processing it this way. Since I currently have c41 chems, and 5246 film free from the school, I'll go ahead and put in the time to give it a try. I just didn't want to waste the supplies and the hours if I was just going to get a mess.

Ryan,

 

Just for information: Kodak intermediate films have a reddish colour mask, print film does not. The two types of film also have quite different characteristic curves - the intermediate film is lower contrast and has a lower density range.

 

I've found that C-41 cannot be used for film tests (ie it isn't sufficiently similar to ECN-2) but it is OK for just processing MP film shot as still film. I wiped the rem-jet off with the film hanging up after the final wash, using cotton wool and being careful not to allow the particles of rem-jet onto the emulsion side of the film. You do not need to be thorough - just get most of it off. The remaining traces can be removed when the film is dry, using a mixture of ammonia, alcohol and water - about 1+1+3, using 10% ammonia.

 

Best, Helen

Twenty years ago, when I develop at home MP 35 mm photo cassette (Gevacolor 682 or Fuji N30 or Eastman 5247), I use ECN-2 process, and in place for prebath I use a solution 20 g/l sodium carbonate (1 min. at 30 C).

With a piece of cotton wool I remote the antihalation backing, rinse 30 sec. and developer SD-49 ?.Idea with sodium carbonate solution came from ECP-2 process (process for color print film).

Now, I use ECN-2 for a lot of photo negatives, I am very near with this process.

 

George

Samples of images with SUPERIA 100 (expired 2001-7) and REALA 100 (expired 2001-1) negatives expose and process in ECN-2 (without prebath).

 

George

<p>Helen: Looks like this was written a while ago, but here are some comparisons of the intermediate films currently available versus negative stocks:<br /><br />Fuji FN 8511 Intermediate film (these are what I've measured accurate to +/- 0.025 ALL OF THESE ARE STATUS M)<br>

B+F Red 0.275 Green 0.600 Blue 0.825 <br>

LAD (Laboratory AIM density) Red 1.10 Green 1.50 Blue 1.75 </p>

<p>Kodak 5254 Intermediate Film (has an odd orange base cast, and has very low Red (Cyan values)) <br>

B+F Red 0.075 Green 0.65 Blue 0.70<br>

LAD Red 0.75 Green 1.325 Blue 1.425<br>

For comparison, here are the actual Kodak values:<br>

5201 Status M<br>

D-Min Red 0.17 Green 0.60 Blue 0.87<br>

AIM Red 0.83 Green 1.35 Blue 1.71<br /><br /><br>

5219 Status M<br>

D-Min Red 0.20 Green 0.65 Blue 0.87<br>

AIM Red 0.78 Green 1.27 Blue 1.51<br /><br /><br /><br />As far as making prints, Double Exposure, Ltd. Laboratory makes prints (color positives) onto Fuji 3514DI and Kodak Vision 2383. DoubleExposureLtd@gmail.com<br /><br /><br />Not sure why anyone would want to use intermediate film as print stock. As you can see by the numbers (and them being Status M) it's basically like an internegative film or an intermediate film, it's almost as low-contrast as negative, (though 5254 has a really funny coloration, not sure why might be for digital intermediate usage).<br /><br />They'd be good for making internegatives or interpositives, but NOT for making prints. </p>

<p>I looked up Double Exposure Labs LLC after I noticed several posts on various forums making dubious claims, such as "we are the only lab that is processing ECN-2." As of today, they have an F rating with the Better Business Bureau. There are 5 complaints against them that they did not respond to. All of the complaints sound similar. They sent in exposed Seattle Film Works ECN-2 film along with a check for processing and return shipping. The check was cashed and no goods delivered. At best, they can't handle the volume of their business. If these complaints weren't legit, you'd think they would at least respond to the BBB at least once out of 5 times to keep their company name clean.</p>