Where can I get a decent TLR?

<p>I've just recieved a Yashica 124 MAT G which I ordered last week from a reputable store in Canada and to my dismay the camera is not at all in the condition advertised, camera is filthy and the lens is fogged up on the inside! and the God damn shutter was left cocked!!! I just returned the piece of shit in the mail so I could get my refund back, boy am I so damn disappointed! now since buying a TLR in my area (which I can inspect for myself) is next to impossible I have no choice but to order online, anyone know of a good place to order online? can I trust Ebay? God I'm so pissed off!</p>

<p>Oh also the the viewfinder screen displayed the image inversed from left to right, is that normal on a Yashica? A Mamiya C33 I checked out a few weeks ago did not do this.</p>

All reflex cameras using a focussing hood have a left-right reversed viewfinder image. It would take a prism or Porro-finder to flip left and right and keep the image right side up. The Mamiya you saw with 'un-reversed' image will have had one of those finders, but they are not 'standard issue' and most Mamiya TLRs (like Rolleis, Yashicas and the rest) will come with a simple focussing hood and left-right reversed viewfinder image.<br>It's something you get used to quite quickly, this left-right reversal.

<p>Well I'm not too crazy about working with a reversed image, just that makes me want to change my mind about getting a TLR.</p>

<p>I am comfortable with ebay. You just need to be careful reading descriptions and looking at photos and researching the seller with his previous sales and feed back. You also need to communicate with the seller to hopefully get some idea of what sort of person he is. Certain ways of describing things can be made to sound good without actually saying anything because they are vague or subjective. Also avoid sellers who don't know how to test a camera to see if it works.</p>

<p>Who'd you buy it from, Steve? Personally, I'd skip a TLR altogether. They're getting old and those magical cure-all CLAs everyone recommends aren't that cheap or easy to find any more. Lots of late model SLRs, especially 645 format, that might suit you better. Bronica, Mamiya, and Pentax 645 models might be worth a look. In short, it's 2013 and I'd try to buy the newest medium format gear I could afford.</p>

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<p>Well I'm not too crazy about working with a reversed image, just that makes me want to change my mind about getting a TLR.</p>

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<p>There are some prism heads available for some TLR cameras, but they are hard to find nowdays, expensive, and sometimes fairly dim.<br>

If you can't accept the fact that TLR screens show the reversal (it's a mirror in it, after all), you should avoid TLRs for sure.</p>

<p>A little research into a camera before you buy it is a "good idea".</p>

<p>Well I think I'll abandon TLRs all together, unless someone can drop one in my hand that's in top shape and if I can also reconfigure my brain to work with a reversed viewscreen, I think the Mamiya 645E would be a better idea.</p>

<p>Better still, get the grown-up Mamiya 645 Super/Pro/ProTL for the film backs and superior build quality.</p>

<p>I've got (and regularly use) a 124G, and think its a great camera. Granted, mine is in excellent condition. So I'd recommend you not give up on TLRs based on one bad experience. You will get used to the reversed finder, and (when the camera is on my tripod+ball head) I actually find it much easier to properly align the image than with my 35mm cameras.</p>

<p>KEH has several 124G models, ranging from EX to LN- . They are listed in the Medium Format category, under 'Miscellaneous Med Format - Fix Lens Cameras'. I'd recommend getting one with the caps, as the front lens cap seems fairly unique. </p>

<p>If you don't think you can learn to love the reversed image of the standard TLR finder I'd look into a Mamiya 645. The problem with using prism or porroprism finder accessories is they lower finder brightness quite a bit. My dad had a Mamiya C33 TLR and even with the f2.8 lens the brightness with the porroprism suffered quite a bit in comparison with the standard WL finder.<br>

The 645E that you mention has a bright, contrasty focusing screen with split image aid. Easy to focus even in low light. Be aware, though that the 645E has lots of plastic used in body construction so it must be treated gently compared to the older Mamiya 645.</p>

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<p><em>A little research into a camera before you buy it is a "good idea".</em><br>

<strong>Indeed.</strong></p>

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<p>A true prism finder with solid, polished glass elements will be much brighter then porro finders using panels of cut mirrors. <br /> Prisms for Mamiya and Rollei TLR's are actually fairly common and available.<br /> Good used equipment can be found at B&H Photo NY, USA; KEH Camera, Georgia USA; Kenmore Camera, Bothell, WA USA.</p>

<p>Rollei TLR Prisms: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4099/4826415956_b0b506cd88_z.jpg<br /> Mamiya 'C' Series TLR Prism: http://ebaypics.columbuscameragroup.com/mamiyactl-1348862557-9441.jpg<br /> Mamiya Porro finder-left/Prism finder-right: http://img0105.popscreencdn.com/160114680_mamiya-c330-with-180-mm-lense-and-a-mamiya-c220-with-80-.jpg</p>

<p>Marc</p>

<p>Mamiya C330s were built untill 1994</p>

<i>"If you don't think you can learn to love the reversed image of the standard TLR finder I'd look into a Mamiya 645. "</i><br><br>But be advised that these cameras too come with a focussing hood and that left-right reversed image.<br>To avoid that, you must get a prism finder for the Mamiya 645 cameras too.<br>But at least you can with those. Most TLRs do not have a prism as an optional extra.

True, Q. G. One must read listings to be sure the M645 comes with a prism. It's sometimes harder to find it with the WL

finder. But what Mamiya shopper must watch out for is the M645 bodies that are sold without a finder, just the focusing

screen in place. I actually wanted a 645J with WL and I had to order the camera and finder separately.

<p>Well I've just renewed my enthousiasme for getting a TLR, a Photo.net member in my area sent me an email regarding a Minolta Autocord in good condition he would like to sell me, I'll just have to force my brain to work with the reversed viewscreen, I did my research on TLRs, though the reversed image was not something I had expected nor heard anyone mention, aside from my use of a Holga camera I am a newbie with the medium format. Thanks everyone.</p>

<p>Steve, the reversed image thing isn't a big deal for the majority of owners. Yes, at first it all feels wrong and impossible to use. Just persevere a bit. Eventually your brain does get the hang of it, and it becomes second nature. I've been going through a bit of a 35mm phase recently, but in the past, when I've used only a waist level for a few days, I've picked up a 35mm SLR and found myself turning the wrong way for a moment. So you barely notice it after some familiarisation. It's true, there are some people who never seem able to adjust to the reversed image. But in most cases, a bit of practice is all that's needed, and at the same time you will also come to appreciate the experience of viewing through the large ground glass screen; it is a wonderful way to see the world.</p>

You will like the quiet leaf shutter on the Minolta Autocord. The focal plane shutter on the M645 is louder. Good luck with

whatever you get and be sure to post some pictures.

<p>"<em>Well I've just renewed my enthousiasme for getting a TLR, a Photo.net member in my area sent me an email regarding a Minolta Autocord in good condition he would like to sell me, I'll just have to force my brain to work with the reversed viewscreen</em>..."</p>

<p>Out of the frying pan...Bonne chance, Steve.</p>

<p>Wait till you decide to try large format. the freaking image is upside down!!!</p>

<p><em>... those magical cure-all CLAs everyone recommends aren't that cheap or easy to find any more.</em><br>

Nothing is cheap any more! However, you can still find camera techs to work on TLRs. Based on quite a bit of experience with these cameras, I would say that, aside from violent physical abuse (such as cameras being dropped with the focusing rack extended), most mechanical problems with Rolleis (above all film winding through the camera and not stopping at each or any frame) are likely to be due to dried-up grease and are therefore fixable. Yashicas and Minoltas can be very good optically but are not as robust - they may contain worn-out parts.<br>

Optically these camera are 50 to 60 years old, if badly stored they may develop mold in their lenses. If mold is not caught and cleaned at a very early stage, it can eat through coatings and into the glass, meaning that repair would not be cost-effective.<br>

The main argument in favor of TLRs becomes apparent when you pick one up - the Rolleiflex was described in the 1920s as a miniature camera and was designed in terms of bulk and weight to compete with 35mm cameras. System rollfilm cameras are much more versatile but also much bulkier and heavier.</p>

<p>With Autocord's, pay particular attention to the focus lever. <br /> The hinge for the film back/bottom is located on the front of the camera immediately below the focusing lever. <br /> If the back is opened to load/remove film, and the focusing lever has not been moved to one extreme side or the other,<br /> the act of opening the back will/may bend the focus lever. If this happens a few too many times, the lever breaks off. <br /> An expensive repair...when parts were available. Today...these parts basically don't exist.</p>

<p>Autocord with broken/missing focus lever: http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/.a/6a00df351e888f8834012875f827f7970c-400wi</p>

<p>Autocord with focus lever at infinity: http://auctions.natcam.com/ebay/bw/bwminautocord6.jpg</p>

<p>I've owned many different medium format cameras and the TLR is my favorite overall. I started out in college with a Rolleicord that my uncle bought new in Germany in 1950, and my aunt gave it to me (my uncle had passed away 5 years before). Since then I've owned a dozen different medium format cameras, and still come back to the Rolleiflex and Rolleicord every time. Image quality is superb, they are lightweight and compact, and they are a pleasure to use.</p>

<p>Steve, I'll just add my two pence worth to the previous comments and say don't let the laterally reversed image put you off. Honestly, your brain will quickly become accustomed to viewing the image this way, and after a while you will barely notice it.<br>

The waist level finder offers by far the biggest and brightest screen image, and prism finders usually cut off a small amount of screen image making them slightly less accurate.</p>