Old manual lenses with fungus

<p>Hi guys,<br>

Not sure if this is the right forum but I have a few questions about some old manual lenses.<br>

I own a Olympus OM-30 and a Canon AE-1p and some lenses from each brand<br>

Really impressed by the optical quality for that money<br>

Now, I have been coming across with some lenses with tiny bits of fungus inside pretty regularly on eBay and stuff. Obviously they are quite a bit cheaper than those in perfect condition usually<br>

Is it hard to get rid of fungus if it is just on the front or rear elements? I'm trying to do it myself thinking it would be a good skill to have<br>

I know that Olympus SLR's from that time were extremely complex and were quite difficult to repair. Are their lenses just as troublesome when it comes to disassembling? <br>

Could any one tell me more about lens cleaning and such, I appreciate it<br>

Cheers,<br>

Keefe</p>

<p>Fungus can be removed with Hydrogen Peroxide, if it's not reachable (like because it's between 2 cemented pieces) it can be killed by blasting it with UV light (sun or lamps) but it will still be visible and may or may not affect the quality of the pictures you take with it. The question is how far the fungus has spread, in the more extreme cases it can have etched the glass leaving irremovable traces. Lenses with fungus are kind of a gamble, with a little luck you can get a good lens but it can blow back and leave you with an unusable lens. Can't comment on disassembly, never done that.</p>

<p>Cheers Uncle Goose. <br>

I have just bought a Olympus 50mm 1.8 as an experiment. Looks like that there is some fungus on the front element on the photos I was shown but anyway, I'll wait until when it arrives. <br>

I see the risk that you are pointing out that I might spend my money on an unusable lens. That risk is exactly why I want to try such lenses lol whilst trying to dig a little deeper on how clean it properly. So I'm hoping someone might be able to point out here are there particular lenses or brands that are more difficult to disassemble than others.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.kyphoto.com/cgi-bin/forum/discus.cgi?pg=topics">http://www.kyphoto.com/cgi-bin/forum/discus.cgi?pg=topics</a></p>

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<p><em>"Is it hard to get rid of fungus if it is just on the front or rear elements?"</em></p>

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<p>Fungus is almost always, without exception, <strong>inside</strong> the lens. It's very rare for a lens to only have fungus on the exterior surface of the front or rear element. Once fungus is inside the lens, the only way to remove it completely is to dismantle the lens far enough to remove the contaminated element(s) for cleaning. As Uncle Goose noted, hydrogen peroxide solution works very nicely for removing the fungus.<br>

-</p>

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<p><em>"Looks like that there is some fungus on the front element on the photos I was shown..."</em></p>

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<p>I strongly suspect you'll find that the fungus is on the <strong>back</strong> surface of this element when you receive it.</p>

<p>Good luck. :-)</p>

<p>Keefe - there are lots of earlier threads on fungus in lenses along with techniques to attempt to clean them. If you use the search function, you will be well rewarded. If the fungus is light and on front elements, it usually isn't too much of a problem...although it often reduces contrast and increases flare. If on the rear elements it is more likely to impair the iq of the photo. If it has progressed far enough to etch the glass..you're out of luck, can't be cleaned or removed. I did have some once on a Canon FD 50mm macro, and it was pretty easy to remove the rear element and clean it....nobody could come up with a way to remove the front element however (I tried here and on Kyphoto's repair site). Anyway, after cleaning the rear element the resultant photos were as sharp and crisp as another fungus free sample I owned. Good luck in your endeavor.</p>

<p>Keefe, I've done as you for years. Often I have been able to pick up lenses for cheap because of a relatively small amount of fungus. Finding them isn't the problem. Fixing them often is. Sometimes the dismantlement/remantlement procedure can baffle even the best of repair people. What you'll find is that no two lenses seem to come apart the same, but after a while you begin to pick up certain tips and tricks as you learn some of the more common design elements used in lens construction. Like using small grub screws to hold sleeves in place which cover much larger screws and/or guide elements for zooms, etc.</p>

<p>You'll also need to acquire a basic set of tools. I took a camera repair class years ago, taught be a curmudgeonly old sort, who was a stickler about proper terminology. For example, the screwdrivers that a camera technician uses are not Philips screwdrivers, but <em>crosspoint </em>screwdrivers. The point shape and angle are different. See this link for a concise explanation as to the differences:</p>

<p>http://www.pierfishing.com/resources/index.php?id=the_screwdriver_-_part_2</p>

<p>Since it is not easy finding crosspoint screwdrivers, his conversion advice is particularly useful. So anyway, you'll want a set of crosspoint screwdrivers of various <em>small</em> sizes, as well as a set of straight-bladed screwdrivers, including some <em>very</em> small ones. The cheap sets from China you see everywhere will probably work, but quality is highly variable, so what I suggest you do is buy plenty of spares until you can find good quality tools. An electronics supply is often a good place to find better quality tools.</p>

<p>You'll also need at least one needle-tipped set of tweezers. Look for them at the same aforementioned electronics supply -- not your local beauty supply. Don't skimp here. Get a good set. Sometimes having two sets is helpful. Especially if you live in a house with women who keep borrowing them to pluck their eyebrows.</p>

<p>You'll need a good lens spanner. Possibly more than one size. Look over at fleabay for lens spanners. I would avoid those with interchangeable tips unless the way the tips are mounted is clearly a very stable arrangement. I have a lens spanner that has interchangeable snap-in-place tips, and they don't want to stay in place when I have to exert pressure on them (to loosen a mounting ring, for example), which means that the tips can slip, resulting in scratched glass. DAMHIK.</p>

<p>And you'll also find the rubber stoppers in various sizes to be handy. They're good for loosening (and retightening) the name plate bezels from around the front perimeters of many lenses.</p>

<p>You'll want a safe solvent for cleaning off the old lubricant if you're refreshing the lens, or if you're having to degrease the aperture iris blades. I like naphtha for this. It's relatively low in odor, works well as a general solvent, and can even be used as lighter fuel for Zippo-style lighters. You'll also want a decent lube to relube the lens helicals with. This can be a matter of personal preference. But as long as it's a lube that isn't too viscous and has good lubricating properties, it should work fine. You don't want lube that's too thin, either, or else you'll risk your iris blades being soaked with lube again. I've used a medium viscosity gray molybdenum disulfide lube for years as an automotive and motorcycle engine assembly lube because it is just an excellent assembly lube when fitting metal-to-metal surfaces (such as lens helicals), largely because it stays put. Plus, it doesn't separate or break down.</p>

<p> Tom Cheshire provided a link to the forums at KY Photo. That is the best source I know of on the Internet for learning/exchanging information on camera and lens repair. Anyone with even a passing interest in camera or lens repair needs to bookmark that site.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>With so many dead-end mount lenses available so cheaply in common focal lengths, why bother with anything fungus infected? Pay a bit more for a clean one.</p>

<p>What Mr. Watson said. Why mess with it? Disassembly is tedious and requires skills that you and I probably don't have. Unless I owned some rare or exotic lens, in which case I would have a professional look at it, I would be the one trying to sell it to you on ebay.</p>

<p>Thanks guys for your responses. Going to build up a good toolbox for lens repairing as I get into it a bit more. Looks like this is the most important thing cause from what you guys have said, it sounds like that things mightn't be what most people usually have. When I saw Tom's link, I was like WOW, cause I never knew how to find these websites and this is why I"m posting. <br>

The other thing is that, getting these defective lenses isnt just about the prices but also the fun of having to work on them before actually using them. So thanks for pointing out that I can pay more to get something better.</p>

<p>Not all 35mm SLR lenses are hard to work on. I have repaired / cleaned dozens with fungus and sometimes those with just dust on the elements or oily crud on the blades. I have occasionally bought lenses knowing the elements had fungus on/in them, not necessarily because they were cheap but because I needed to match a particular elderly SLR with the lens type that originally came with the camera. Internet searches will find many good articles about lens cleaning so no need to cover that here.<br>

The easiest lenses to disassemble? Usually normal focal lengths. Zooms can be a real pain (frustration) so I rarely worked on those. With practice comes skill. The time and effort usually is not necessarily a big deal and simple tools are easily found at reasonable expense. I'm not fond of working on more modern, heavily plastic or feature laden cameras or lenses so I leave that to real experts, buy a like item without the problems or just avoid them altogether. I might also let a pro tackle my higher value vintage Leica lenses. I find that older lenses are usually much easier to service. Lens repair can be a satisfying hobby for some but not everyone finds enough satisfaction and success to make such endeavors worthwhile.<br>

I found that Minolta MC normal focal length lenses are relatively easy to work on as well as Non AI Nikkors, Canon breech lock FL & FD, and most Auto Miranda. Most anything made by Tomioka to include Yashica DX & DS, Mamiya/Sekor, Auto Rikenon are also pretty straight forward. Konica AR lenses can be pretty easy too. Somewhat more difficult for me were Pentax Takumar / Super Takumar and yes Olympus OM.<br>

I'm now mainly a collector (temporary custodian) of several early 35mm SLRs from 1950s to 1970s so I'm more concerned that a camera winds and fires (not necessarily accurately) and the lens functions. Cosmetics are important but one can't always be too choosey with earliest and harder to find SLRs. Most of my cameras look nice on display. I repaired and restored many of the cameras in my collection or paid to have them repaired. Many were bought with deficiencies that have since been sorted out and rectified. I feel I have rescued many that would have been destined for parts or tossed in the trash. Still plenty of film cameras and lenses out there in the supply chain for dedicated film users. Many of the earliest SLRs and lenses don't really make the best users in any case.</p>

<p>Keefe, I'll give you one parting suggestion that might be worth trying on a cheap lens: Exposure of rough-cut wood to 130 degF heat for a few hours is a time-honored method used to kill certain species of fungus that rot and discolor the wood. This sterilization can also be done at 120 degF, but the exposure has to be longer, perhaps a day or two. That's of course wood.</p>

<p>For optics, Zeiss recommends storage in heated cabinets in high humidity climates. See here:</p>

<p><a href="http://lenses.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_za/website/service/fungus_on_lenses.html">http://lenses.zeiss.com/camera-lenses/en_za/website/service/fungus_on_lenses.html</a></p>

<p>They recommend 50 degC (122 degF) not be exceeded. Therefore there seems to be safe overlap between this maximum storage temperature and the temperatures used to kill at least some species of fungus. Whether lens fungus can be sterilized at 122F is perhaps a matter of speculation.</p>

<p>FAIW, I once accidentally left a 135mm (SMC Takumar) lens in a car under the bright West Texas summertime sun for 4 or 5 hours. Upon discovering my error, I grabbed my poor lens, and it burnt my hand. I'm guessing the temp was 150 degF. The lens was oriented on its side. Although the temperature was high enough to melt the text off of a plastic adhesive label, no damage was done to the lens. Lens coatings and adhesive junctions were fine. Paint didn't flake. Grease didn't migrate, and aperture blades stayed dry. I still own and use the lens 35 years later.</p>

<p>Just a note of caution when dissasembling any lens: pay attention to the small metal ball that usually makes the "click" when you change aperture by rotating the corresponding ring. It is in general kept in place by some grease or not and it might not get free from the beginning - you will find it missing only when everything is reassembled, works fine but there is no "click" and the ring rotates almost freely.</p>

<p>It's easy to replace the piece with another small bearing ball, from the innards of another decomposed lens aperture or aperture mechanism, but it is still very annoying.<br>

<br />I also find cleaning lenses a funny occupation and taking pictures with a "salvaged" lens is pretty rewarding.</p>

<p>It depends on which OM Zuiko 50/1.8 you got, whether or not it can be cleaned.</p>

<p>I noticed on the "Japan" and "Made in Japan" versions that I have, the front set is mounted into a metal cage that does not allow opening up for cleaning. It they do I haven't found how to do it.</p>

 

<p>Cosmin's post reminded me of something. Since it appears you'll be making something of a hobby of this, the situation will occur, I promise, where a tiny part that belongs to your lens (or camera) will fall on the floor and promptly disappear from this corner of the space-time continuum. One of the best ways I've found to bring your part back from such a fate is to use a magnet on a string. An old friend of mine has been a camera repair guy for, like, forever and he's the one who told me about this trick. He has a largish horseshoe shaped magnet to which he's tied a stout piece of string. He tosses it onto the floor and then slings and sweeps it about, picking up all sorts of ferric detritus. Including things like tiny ball bearings and sub-microscopic grub screws.</p>

<p>I have some neodymium magnets, each about the size of a quarter, but so strong that my car outside feels the tug from them. Watch your fingers when you bring one to within close contact with iron or steel. My wife didn't. She was reaching toward a steel shelf to stick one there, when it leapt from her finger and pinched it between the magnet and the shelf, leaving a blood blister. It impacted the shelf with such force that it broke in two. Because the not-broken ones are disk-shaped I have no string for them. But still I'll toss one on the carpeted floor and scoot it around with my feet. It works very very well at picking up all the tiny ferrous stuff you can't even see and that often gets buried or hidden in carpet fibers.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Just my 2 cents here (I regularly pull old folder lenses apart to clean them), but nearly every case of fungus I've ever encountered was between two, cemented elements. I don't have the tools to de-cement and reassemble them.</p>

<p>I believe most old folder lenses I encountered were simple doublets and a few triplets. Typically cemented using organic balsum. Heated in an oven or boiling water they ought to separate. If the folder is for display, just place the cleaned de-cemented elements back together, install and be done with it. Re-cementing with modern cement and correct alignment of the elements may not be feasible for the novice. Newer cements are more difficult to separate if not impossible but then they typically less apt to incur fungus or delamination. Just my thoughts based on what I have read and my own experience tinkering with some old defective folder lenses. Sometimes better to find another parts folder with same lens and do a transplant.</p>

<p>anti-bacterial foot cream is the best thing ever for removing fungus. The cream you get for athletes foot :)<br>

<br />It sticks to the surface too, so can be useful where liquids would just drain off</p>

<p>Another, often successful, approach is to use the affected lens as if there was no fungus. If you can't see the effect of the evil cooties on the picture, they might not be worth exorcising. </p>

<p>I challenge anyone to show an example of fungus spreading to nearby lenses when the lenses are properly stored at low humidity, etc.</p>

<p>1) Fungus has to come from somewhere and it is a common thing.</p>

<p>2) You may be our guest but I'm not about to experiment with exposing my good lenses to a fungussed one just to see if you're right.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I've been collecting and accumulating lenses for over 30 years, some not cleaned yet of fungus and those are stored next to my pristine vintage lenses. I have not seen any transfer of fungus from lens to lens and no increase in the fungus endowed lenses after many years. I do store all of my lenses and cameras in a relatively controlled indoor environment with low humidity and rarely do they feel any heat above 75 degrees f. I'm guessing hot humid climates may pose an actual challenge. Just my experience; others of course may have had some bad luck.</p>

<p>I found a near mint condition 50mm f/1.4 non-AI (last version with the multicoating and rubber focusing grip) Nikkor for about $30 at a flea market. The only issue was some fungus on a couple of the interior elements. I went home, took some photos with it, including some with the sun in the frame and really did not see an increase in flare or softness to the fungus. I started taking it apart until I got to the elements with the fungus. First I took a swab soaked in hydrogen peroxide to it to kill the fungus. I then set to removing the fungus with first a wet and then a dry swab. I applied some elbow grease, not overly concerned if I damaged the coating all that much because I did not spend a lot on it, and the fungus came off just fine without leaving any "scars" on the coating or the glass. I put the lens back together, used a Dremel and a cutting wheel and cut out part of the aperture ring to do a DIY AI conversion and it is still a favorite lens.</p>

<p>Okay guys, thanks for all your post, I'm sure they will be really helpful. The lens arrived today, and there is tiny bits of fungus on both the front and rear elements on the edge. Now, dumb question, if I cant see the fungus through my view finder, will it affect my photos?</p>

<p>Hi everybody!<br>

I just bough a Fujica ST801 with a Fujinon 55mm <em>f</em>/1.8. to experiment again with black and white film photography.<br>

The lens has some fungus inside, so I decided to replace it.<br>

I'm offering now to <strong>give away</strong> this lens to any of you, who wants to clean it and <strong>keep it</strong> to yourself. You don't need to pay anything, I just don't want this magnificent lens to end up in the trash.<br>

You can reply to this thread, o you can contact me at aabonce@hotmail.com</p><div></div>

<p>^^^^ UPUDATE FOR THE MESSAGE ABOVE ^^^^<br>

I don't think I can delete or edit the above message, so I'm writing an update here:</p>

<p><strong>I sent the lens to a photographer in Illinois. So I don't have it anymore.</strong></p>

<p> </p>