looking for secondary camera

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I am looking for a film camera as a secondary camera and was wondering whether you can give me some suggestion. <br /> I have a leica m9 + 35mm summicron m asph as my main camera. But I don't want to carry the $8000 gear everyday, everywhere with worrying getting stolen or something. So I am looking for a secondary camera as a carry-all-day camera. <br /> 1. my budget for this is about $500 for camera and lens<br /> 2. I don't want to compromise that much for image quality, so film camera looks like to fulfill both.<br /> 3. I prefer rangefinder <br /> 4. I prefer 35mm lens <br /> 5. mostly for street photography</p>

<p>So I have following thought:<br /> 1. Non-leica rangefinder: canon QL 17 G-III: No Metering in manual mode<br /> 2. Leica CL + 40mm f2: 40mm, :(<br /> 3. Leica M2/M3 + some lens (lens quality can be compromised)<br /> 4. _____</p>

<p>The good side for Option 3 is that I can share lens between the film camera and my leica M9. But the down side is that there is no way i can find a combo of M2/M3 with lens around $500 (or is it there any unknown lens). </p>

<p>Any thought would be very welcome. Thanks in advanced.</p>

<p>You can find a Voigtlander with lens for less than a leica M3 or M2 body these days. I recently sold my M4-p as I preferred the Voigtlander. Keep in mind that with the Leicas you mentions you will need a meter.</p>

Have you considered the M 8 perhaps above your budget but changes effective FL of lenses. If you plan to use the new

body a lot you will find film is expensive. While I love and shoot film I find it a luxury these days given the cost.

Alternatively the Bessarabia bodies are quite cheap as are the recent cosina Zeiss ikon bodies. An M6 is also a

reasonable buy.

<p>Hi John, <br>

Can you suggest a lens as well? I can't find any lens to go with Voigtlander in that price range. thank you very much.</p>

<p>Hi Philip,<br /> You are right, M8 is above my budget. <br /> Though I said I am looking one for carry-all-day. I actually just want to take it with me on my way to work, to dinner, to party with friend, just in case there are some wonderful moment that I don't want to miss. So though it's all day, everywhere, but not specifically for an event of taking photos. So it should be fine. <br /> It's probably hard to understand why I am doing this. My bottom line is that since I will take this secondary camera with me everywhere, I want it to be cheap enough so that I won't kill myself if it get lost some way, without compromising that much in the quality. And since my m9+35 summicron is still my main camera when really shooting, I want to keep shooting experience similar (both range finder with 35mm focal length)<br /> The alternatives you guys suggested look great to me, but the problem is I can't find cheap lens for them.</p>

<p>As you like the 35mm ASPH f2, what about the Hexar AF if you find a well kept one. The lens is close to the non-aspherical Summicron in rendition and the Hexar is also available in the silent model which is good for some close up street photography.</p>

<p>An M2 or M3 in very good shape will not allow you to remain in budget. Some photographers like the CL and 40 Summicron. I had one for a few years and do not miss the camera body at all. The classic small VC 35m f2.5 is a very fine lens which sells for about 250$ in clean shape. Useable on your M9 as well with LTM-M adapter. Maybe you can find a nice Bessa RF to go with it, but the Bessa shutters are noisy.</p>

<p>Try to find a Hexar and handle it. I think you may be surprised by its quality. Only downside is that its shutter top speed is limited to around 1/200 or 1/300, but no big deal for much street shooting.</p>

<p>Hi Arthur, <br>

Thank you for the suggestion.<br>

I tried to googled a little bit about VC 35m f2.5 and most of places sell it at about $500. I will continue digging. if I can get one with Voigtlander body, then it's likely the combo I am looking for. <br>

As for the Hexar, that seems a pretty good alternative. I actually saw it when I was searching for non-leica rangefinder the other day, but found few selling online, and people said it's not real rangefinder so I didn't try further. </p>

<p>Zekai, true, the Hexar AF is a viewfinder - autofocus RF camera and getting to understand its various controls is not as easy as some cameras. If I were street shooting mainly and having to think more about composing the image than quickly finding (or pre-focussing) a focus sweet point, I might go for a more automatic rangefinding VF camera like the Hexar. My M film Leicas and M9 are true rangefinders, but sometimes it is nice to have a holiday from them while retaining a VF camera view of the world.</p>

<p>I've not used the Hexar so this is only a personal preference rather than actual experience.</p>

<p>The complete listings on the big auction site mainly show prices between about $300 and $350 for the LTM version of the 35mm f2.5 V-C lens.</p>

<p>Hexar AF</p>

<p>You can't beat a clean, <strong>Canon 17 GIII</strong> for bang for the buck. Terrific quality lens, bright finder, manual and auto exposure. Super quiet and very compact too. I carry mine on a little Lowepro belt bag. It costs so little, it's practically disposable. What more do you need? Figure $80 for the camera and $100 for a CLA and you are done.</p>

<p>Another even more compact/stealthy little guy is the <strong>Ricoh 500G</strong>, Find a black one for around $75, silver around $50. Seriously small, sharp as a tack. Full manual or auto exposure. Leaf shutter quiet. Almost always needs new seals. Interslice has seal kits. Some find it <em>too</em> small for the hands so YMMV. I really like it.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p><a href="http://www.dantestella.com/technical/contaxt.html">Contax T</a> <<< Click</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"The lens is a unit-focusing 38mm f/2.8(16) Sonnar T* (5-element) with a seven-blade aperture. It is T* multicoated <strong>-</strong> <strong>Rangefinder and limitations:</strong> What limitations? With a 38mm lens, a rangefinder is the icing on the cake!"<em><strong> Dante Stella</strong></em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sorry to spoil the fun but why don't you just get $50 of insurance? You can use your existing lenses too.</p>

<p>Poke around, but the Leica CL viewfinder is about a 35mm view if you go to the edges? Look for a body with a broken meter (not hard to find) and the VC 35mm Skopar.</p>

You may consider the contax G series. Prices have gone up a bit of late but I like mine. The G2 is quite a lot more

expensive than the G1 as the AF is better and it has the rear AF button to make things easier. That said my G1 works

fine (as well as Leica I have two G2 s and a G1). If possible get theG1 with the modification (green sticker In the film

compartment so you can use the 35mm lens. Unfortunately NEX and M43 have driven up lens prices but you should get

the G1 for about$200-250 and either the 45 F2 or 35 F2. The 45 is a slightly better lens but both are excellent -

comparable to my Leica lenses. Lens prices have risen but you should be able to get them in the $300-$350 range.

<p>Thank you all for your suggestion.<br>

Hi Gus, Dan, when I use my 35mm lens on my M9, I actually don't feel the viewline that much useful, cuz the view I can see outside the 35mm is very small, unlike using an 50mm. (I am not saying I don't like it though, just not much useful. completely personal opinion). So I will probably be okay to live with the leica cl's. And I will spend some time look at the contax T. <br>

Hi Clive, I actually had given this a thought. But yes, either way I should probably get one for my current gears. Thank you for this.<br>

Hi Dan, Yes. I am watching for some auction now. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hi all,<br>

Thank you for all the suggestions. That gives me a broad view of the options for me. <br>

I know I've already asked too much -- budget but good image quality. But I would like to add one more, among those equipments you guys suggested, are they all useable in rain and snow and won't break soon? Since I would like to carry it all day, chances are I need to use it in pouring and blizzard occasionally. If from this point of view, without specifically going into a weather sealed camera like nikonos, which would you recommend.<br>

Thank you.</p>

<p>I'm with Arthur. I actually have and shoot the black original Hexar since 10 years, and am very pleased with it.</p><div></div>

<p>I am unsure why you would buy one of the most expensive (probably the most expensive) commercially available digital cameras, and cheap out on a film camera. Obviously IQ is important to you. Not a criticism, just don't understand it. I would spend the appropriate amount needed in order to get what I want, as I have too much experience w/ not doing that. It's never worked for me. $500 is a lot of money to me, and will buy you a very nice camera.</p>

<p>It's always fun to audition gear, and I don't know how something will work until it's in my hands, so my normal mode is to buy several cameras that I think might work. What doesn't work gets sold, and I get to keep the pick of the litter, at least for my needs.</p>

<p>If you are prepared to accept the absence of a built-in meter, the Jupiter 12 lens (35mm f/2.8) is a good performer which can be paired with your choice of FED or Zorki body.</p>

<p>HI Knut and Mukul, Thank you for you suggestion. Also looks like built-in meter is something that I am gonna miss and force myself to improve the skill on exposure control. But that might be good for me. <br>

Hi Steve, you are right. What I am doing makes little sense. As I explained in one of my previous reply, because I would like to carry it everywhere, every day. But I don't want to always put an eye closely on it, distracting myself from other things. $500 is something I can afford to lose, say once a several years. (Another example, I got my current phone at $300 and sometime after work I carried my macbook air with me to a bar. I never worry about my phone get stolen but I do worry about my laptop in that case). <br>

Also in a situation like a pouring or blizzard, I won't feel that bad to shoot with a cheaper camera. <br>

And yes, I used to do similar thing like you did -- when I was using dslr, I bought 4 lenses to play with and eventually only kept one, using for long time until I changed to rangefinder. I am actually thinking of getting two from above folks' suggestions and play with them until I decide which one to go with for long. <br>

Thanks. </p>

<p>The truth is that with any old camera, built-in meters are dubious. If they still work, that may be only temporary.</p>

<p>I second the recommendations for the Canonet series - the only one to avoid, and it's only troublesome because of its dependence on the meter, is the Canonet 28.</p>

<p>There are a number of older Ricoh models, including the 500G, that are worth considering. I went on a Ricoh jag a while back and found them all to be excellent and fun cameras<strong>:</strong><br /><strong>Ricoh 500G</strong> - <a href="/classic-cameras-forum/00Xkkc" rel="nofollow">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00Xkkc</a><br /><strong>Ricoh 500</strong> - <a href="/classic-cameras-forum/00XiNm" rel="nofollow">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00XiNm</a><br /><strong>Ricoh HI-COLOR 35</strong> - <a href="/classic-cameras-forum/00XKwq" rel="nofollow">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00XKwq</a></p>

<p>The HI-COLOR 35 is unusual in having a very effective wind-up advance motor.</p>

<p>The Fuji X100 is going for about $700 secondhand now, and might drop further once the X100s becomes available in quantity. This would give you a 35mm 'equivalent' lens with RF-style shooting and allow you to stay digital if you can stretch your budget a bit.</p>

<p>Even less money is the Yashica GSN. Easily obtainable for under $75. The Canon that you list is going in useable condition for about $200, which I think is too much money that could be better spent on a second camera or lens. There is nothing in Leica for around $500. $700 in bargain condition maybe but then you will not know if it needs a CLA. M3s in excellent and useable condition are running around $900+. You could pick up a screw mount Summitar for around $325 but then you need to add the adapter. You could try to find an older screw mount Leica & lens which is very small.</p>

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>Thanks for all the reply. I eventually increased my budget to 1K and came up with following:</p>

<p>Lens (purchased)</p>

<ul>

<li>Voigtlander CS 35mm F/2.5</li>

</ul>

<p>Camera body (waiting for deal) from follows</p>

<ul>

<li>Voigtlander R2m/R3m/R4m (so hard to find used one)</li>

<li>Leica m4 (I see one with okay condition for about $700)</li>

<li>If no luck, probably go with leica CL, last choice, not that likely</li>

</ul>

<p>The reason that I chose from mechanical bodies is I need one that can be used in rain occasionally; and since carry all day, I don't want to worry about battery. <br /> Thanks all for the precious opinions.</p>

<p>Just to put an end to this thread, I eventually got a Bessa R4M. Thanks again. </p>