Wedding Photographer is MIA with our photos

<p>I could honestly write a novella on the nightmare we have experienced with our wedding photographer, but I'll try to keep it short and to the point. <br>

We got married back in mid-October 2012. Overall, the photography experience was fine the day of. Leading up to the wedding there wasn't as much communication as I would have liked, not for lack of trying on my end, and think that could be why some key shots were missed, but that's another issue/story entirely that has no solution either way. <br>

Really, it all boils down to lack of communication on his part since the wedding, pushing back of deadlines, and every excuse in the book being used when he does respond. Getting updates from him has been almost impossible, for every 5 emails I send he finally replies, and each time with an excuse bigger than the last. I was told three weeks ago that our photos were finished -- one month after the first deadline given, and one week after the second. When he told me they were finished, he said he was shipping them the next day and would let me know when it was shipped. He never let me know when they shipped, and about ten days later we had yet to receive anything. I emailed and facebook messaged him a few times, with no response back, as well as tried the only number of his I have -- which gave a busy signal the three times I called it. Finally, I sent him an email saying I needed to hear from him in the next 24 hours or I would seek legal action, and also posted to his wall to reach out to me immediately. That got his attention, and said he'd sent them two weeks prior. THEN he got incredibly defensive, telling me that legal action would be "frivolous and unnecessary" and how wonderful our photos are, and how hard he had worked on them, and how his 90 day MAX timeline was generous because most photographers take 5-8 months (cause I apparently seem naive), etc. It ended with him saying he would send the photos again and give me the tracking number once sent. I asked him for the FIRST tracking number twice so I could see where the first package was sent, and he all but refused to give it to me. I assume it wasn't ever sent.<br>

A couple of days later, he emails me saying the photos have been sent and he is waiting for the tracking number from his assistant to send over to me. Here we are over a week later and I've neither received a tracking number or our photos. Keep in mind, it's just the disc, no prints. His phone number is still a busy signal, he's moved since we last hired him so I don't know his new address, he's removed me from facebook, and he won't respond to my emails. He's supposed to also send me the photos in an online gallery and that has yet to happen. I've offered to meet him, told him that sending them online would suffice, and asked for the tracking number three times. Basically, I've given him every option I can and exhausted every resource I can to reach him, and won't respond to me -- not even to keep me quiet! He's no longer registered with BBB, so that's useless since I don't know if it's even a current address they have on record. <br>

Is a certified letter the best option in all of this? Assuming the BBB address is current, that is? Should allow him MORE time? He's posted recent photos on his site, so I know he is still in business and actively working. Also, do you think it's a case of them just not being finished yet and he's stalling, or are they possibly awful and he's stalling? I saw six samples, and they were beautiful, so unless something happened between the teasers and now, I hope the latter isn't the case. <br>

At the end of the day, the turn-around has never been the real issue for me. It became an issue when he started making excuses and throwing communication out the door. I just want our wedding photos at this point -- nothing more, nothing less. </p>

<p>So, um, that's short and to the point for ya... Advice? Input?</p>

<p>I don’t have detailed knowledge of how “serving” papers work in the USA (and I assume you are I the USA because you mention the BBB).</p>

<p>But down here it would be fairly easy to serve a notice to him, as you mention he still is ‘in business’ all that would be required is for the officer / person serving the notice to make an appointment to meet with him.</p>

<p>We have a function whereby one can lodge an application at a local court and then the Officer of the Sheriff will serve a summons in respect of money or goods owing – that would cost me not very much – I would look at investigating if there is a similar option for you; something simple, like that.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>how his 90 day MAX timeline was generous because most photographers take 5-8 months</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>This simply cannot be true. If a photog takes even 90 days on average, let alone 5-8 months, to true around a wedding, how many weddings can that photog do?</p>

<p>I cannot help but feel that the person you hired wasn't a real photographer. Quite possible he's displaying other people's pictures on his website then prey for victims (just so common these days). I won't waste time dealing with him anymore. If you plan to seek legal action, do it now. I bet he's counting on people would give up quietly and there are many other victims.</p>

<p>Hey Kimberly, Do you have a contract with this photographer? If so than don't be affraid about not having your photos.<br />I assume his story would go this way : You hired him for your wedding, he had 3-4 more weddings on going...he overvcalculated his time to develop photos so he's stalling. I assume he's a good photographer but a bad bussinesman. <br />Here in Croatia I present my photos to bride and groom 15days after the wedding and I'm talking about 500-600photos. Then we together choose photos for the weddingbook which prints 15more days.<br />So I would say you'll get your photos I would be very pleased with them but will wait because your photographer wasn't honest enough.<br /><br /><br>

P.s. sorry for bad english writing :)</p>

<p>Kimberly - </p>

<p>First thing is to pull out your contract - read it and see what it says in regard to undelivered, late delivered, failure to perform, etc... If you don't have one - shame on both of you. </p>

<p>Second thing - forget the BBB. They follow the money. If you want to make a BBB claim disappear - register as a business with them. They have no legal authority or binding power unless both parties give it to them. </p>

<p>Third - look up the small claims court or conciliation court process for your locality. It is either on the county or state website. (or maybe both). The process varies by state, but is typically where wedding photography disputes end up. It typically involves money less than 5,000 - 10,000 (local limits vary) and disputes within the same state. (ie. Both parties are in MN). Lawyers may or may not be necessary, and there is a filing fee, and in most states a fee to have the papers served by an officer of the court or sheriff. Good news is that all expenses can be added into the amount of damages. </p>

<p>If you decide to not go the court route, I might suggest a more underhand way of getting him to meet you. Have a friend call him and tell him that she is looking for a wedding photographer and wants to meet him at a public place. Let her and him sit down - then you show up. If you don't want to see him face to face, but only want correct contact information from him - do the same thing with the friend, but just have her ask for the information so she can connect with him. </p>

<p>Certified letters really do nothing more than prove that the recipient got the letter. It doesn't mean they opened it, read it, or will take action on it. In fact the last time I sent one, the post office employee informed me that since it was certified, the recipient will know who it is from and may refuse it. </p>

<p>If you paid with check you could possibly threaten him with canceling the check. I believe that you may cancel one up to 6 months after cashing. If you paid by credit card - call the card company and open a dispute. If you paid by cash, sorry. </p>

<p>As for the excuses, if he has posted recent work, then chances are they are not valid. If he has completely gone dark, then there may be something legit, but why not be honest? </p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p> </p>

<p>David is absolutely right, he is clearly avoiding you for some reason (although we don't know why), but what I'm confused about is how he is getting new business w/o a live phone? I mean obviously email is a primary method of communication, but 95% of clients require some verbal communication in some respect prior to contracting, so maybe he just uses email to set up meets?</p>

<p>Have you tried calling him from different numbers (as in he's blocked your number)?</p>

<p>I also second the idea of using a ruse to set up a meeting. I wouldn't expect much resolution, but perhaps you'll get lucky, and he'll fess-up the real reason, or even give you some access on the spot (say he's got the files on his laptop?), be prepared to take custody of the images on the spot (w/ a blank USB stick, a blank CD, your laptop, and an internet connection).</p>

<p>Regardless, have your undercover client get a working phone number prior to the meeting, and be prepared to file in court if the meeting doesn't go well (to the extent of printing out your complaint in proper form, and bringing it with you - be ready to show it to him).</p>

<p>But You haven't mentioned the contract in any respect. The deliverables should be described in it, as well as a timeline. If so, then he has clearly violated the terms of your agreement, if not then you are in a 'grey' territory, which, for you, in court, is probably a good thing...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Finally, I sent him an email saying I needed to hear from him in the next 24 hours or I would seek legal action, and also posted to his wall to reach out to me immediately. That got his attention, and said he'd sent them two weeks prior. THEN he got incredibly defensive, telling me that legal action would be "frivolous and unnecessary" and how wonderful our photos are, and how hard he had worked on them, and how his 90 day MAX timeline was generous because most photographers take 5-8 months (cause I apparently seem naive), etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well that's not the way that kind of thing is handled with anyone. I would not hire anyone for a critical job if I could not reach them easily by phone and they didn't have a reliable physical address. Threatening people is usually not a good idea nor is making public demands of them on the internet. Emails are good for polite correspondences. I use them quite often when politely trying to sort through a problem. The thing about emails is you have to consider how they will look to a third party. If the guy can show up to court with a stack of neurotic emails from you that isn't going to help your case. If they guy said 90 days max and you signed a contract agreeing to that then he has 90 days no matter how unreasonable that is. After that time I would make polite inquiries through email. I would let several business days pass between my emails to reduce the appearance of neurosis. Send one polite email a week.</p>

<p>USPS says for standard mail with delivery confirmation you have to wait 14 postal business days before considering a package lost. If the guy says 90 days I would wait 90 days. Once the guy mails the items I would wait 14 days. Then I would contact him and say I have not received the package and at this stage the USPS considers the package lost. Can you please resend with a tracking number. Also include your USPS approved address so you can make sure it has been sent to the correct address. I would be polite and nonaccusatory. It sounds like an incredibly long drawn out process put when it eventually comes down to legal battles showing that you remained calm polite and open minded for a crazy long amount of time helps your case immensely. I find usually when I go through the process in that fashion most people eventually deliver.</p>

<p>When it comes to threatening people with legal action you have to be careful. First of all you must be really reasonable in the initial stages. Document everything. When you mention legal action do so in a type written carefully worded, polite letter sent via certified mail. Keep a copy of the letter. Make sure you give the recipient a reasonable amount of time to respond. Don't say email me with 24 hours. What if they are in the hospital or their wife is having a baby? You have to say something like I require the items I paid for within 14 calender days from receipt of this correspondence. A 24 hour demand is not going to be considered reasonable by any court of law.</p>

<p>He's a legitimate business. He took our engagement photos about a year ago, and was also the photographer for my sister-in-law's wedding the summer right before our wedding. Again, the whole story is very very long, so I really only wanted to include the present situation to find a solution. Our engagement photos took longer to get to us as well, and while he did send us the photos online eventually, it was months before I managed to get a disc from him -- even though he said he shipped it. He's a repeat offender with that excuse, but I didn't have time or money to find someone else. He took over 90 days with my sister-in-law and was equally unresponsive, but again, she got married just a few months before us and there wasn't time or money to find someone else. It was just a few days over 90, though, the day after our wedding to be exact, but not like this. I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt that he would get his act together, since his reviews were great. Fool me twice, shame on me. <br>

We do have a contract with him, but unfortunately most of it covers before and during wedding issues -- if we have to cancel how much we get back, if an act of God prevents him from being there or looses the photos what we get refunded, payment agreement, and image uses in terms of rights once we get them. Nothing about what to do if the photos aren't delivered, failure to perform, etc. This was my first time getting married, so in hindsight I realize I should have gotten a more detailed contract, but the fact is I didn't, so I can really only sue for him breaking contract with non-delivery. So we are definitely in the grey area, since I think those things were left out intentionally. His website says 6-8 weeks max; he pulled 90 days out AFTER the wedding, even though I expected it with what my sister-in-law went through. His original deadline he gave me was 8 weeks. <br>

I totally thought of the "fake meet-up" idea, but I didn't want to sound crazy, haha. I was going to submit a fake lead on his site and be the person he winds up meeting with, and then be armed with a lawyer (for scare tactic purposes), and a laptop just in case. That may be the route we go in the end, since it doesn't seem like a Certified Letter is going to do much. <br>

Also, I have tried that number, and another number I found, on a different phone, and it is not related to blocking. Neither number works.<br>

Again, I was trying to keep the story short and to the point, but to Jeff -- I spaced my emails out very kindly and was incredibly nice to him up to these last ten days. I've still been nice, just more insistent and forceful. Nice to the point where people were telling me I was being too nice about the whole situation. I'm not tooting my horn, I'm just pointing out that I've remained very level-headed and understanding throughout this entire ordeal, and been more than fair to him. My "24-hour threat" was for him to simply respond to me, not for photo delivery, as he had been ignoring my emails for 2 weeks at that point, and did not have a working number, and I hadn't received my photos yet. It was a last resort, and it worked. He sent them FedEx (he says) not USPS, so they should have gotten to me in less than a week both times. And the point is, he refuses to give me a tracking number even though he says he has it. I work in customer service as well, and a 24 hour response time is standard. I shouldn't be waiting a week for a simple response to a question. I'm not worried about the case I would present in court for myself, I just don't want it to come to something like that. <br>

I think it also bares mentioning that he's being sued by someone else, I just found out a few days ago. They cancelled with him, like I should have, and are owed a 40% refund, and he won't respond to them. They cancelled over 6 months ago. So they're taking him to small claims court for that, although it's a different kind of case. I know this from a review they posted on WeddingChannel.com.<br>

Thank you all for your responses. I know there were short-sightings on my end and I am paying the price, but I also realize I have options to get what I paid for, assuming he still has them (crossing my fingers).</p>

 

>>>that's short and to the point for ya...<<<

 

Well, no. But I sympathize with the anguish this has caused.

 

This really isn't a photography issue. Its a general breach of contract issue. Namely, that a service provider hasn't performed their obligations that were paid for and apparently all reasonable efforts to obtain compliance have been exhausted. This is what court is for. Small claims court is the most likely and easiest venue for a refund. If the local small claims court has so called equity jurisdiction, you can seek an order of specific performance to compel delivery of the finished work (if the images exist). In some cases where services are deliberately blown off to multiple clients, criminal charges are brought against the provider. Including wedding photographers.

<p>Please give us some details. You don’t have to mention him by name but a link to his site would be great. I’m very curious as to what his photography looks like and it would also be a service for future newlyweds in case they stumble across this, they can best avoid him. I had once work with a photographer with very similar habits (who surprisingly is still in business.) Is he in NC?</p>

<p>Naming the photographer, providing a link to his / her site, etc... is not a good idea for a lot of reasons. </p>

<p>Reason #1 being that, while I don't doubt Kimberly's side of events, there are two sides to every issue. The photographer in question hasn't presented their side, nor would I expect him to in a public forum.</p>

<p>Reason #2 What meaningful purpose would it serve, other than to make people go to his site and perhaps cause more issues</p>

<p>Reason #3 If she does post a link, name, etc... it could be construed by a court as not being a friendly gesture on her part and may even be interpreted as being vengeful or in spite of the photographer. In other words - Kimberly may not be showing good faith in dealing with him.</p>

<p>Reason #4 - Vigilante justice - I've seen it on other sites where someone gripes about a service / photographer and the name of the photographer / site gets out there and the next thing you know you have 8000 "photographers" killing the guy's server, sending him hate mail, etc... Not exactly the way to handle this or any situation.</p>

<p>If Kimberly wants to let you know the name of the person - fine - have her PM you with it, but I'd suggest keeping it off the forum.</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>I'd say he has stuffed up and can't face the consequences. If so, he badly underestimates customers' ability to take the bad news, so long as its the truth. But he seems to be digging a whole for himself.<br>

I agree the best way forward is to meet him and encourage it by separating the problem and him.<br>

Like: " let's look at the problem and see if we can both fix it". The moment you mention legal action he will hide.</p>

<p>I spend my working day managing irate customers of a large car manufacturer. The best thing we do is listen and then all work together for an outcome. It works most of the time.</p>

<p>Well good luck Kimberly. The photographer I knew who had done this (and still does) lives in central NC. I really hope it’s not the same guy. He would book way too many weddings (more than he could handle) and then take forever on turnaround delivery. <br /><br />I assisted him on a wedding in 2007 where the bride booked both of us for 8+ hrs. She paid us well and in advance. But being as I was an assistant my only responsiblity was to turn in my part to the main photographer, as it was his business and I was contracted under him. The bride had both of our contacts. A year later she was calling me about delays in her album. I had to politely explain how it was no longer my project. She was in tears about how the photographer was avoiding calls, emails, changed numbers, made excuses, give her false promises every 2 weeks (sound familiar?) ... I really felt bad for her. I eventually contacted him myself and he confided that he had already spent the money and could not complete the album until he could book a few more weddings... unfortunately that’s how his business plan worked.<br /><br />To make a long story short, I decided to become the middle man in all of this and after much threatening phone calls and emails, I worked with him to get it done. She was seeking legal advice after a year and talking with a lawyer. In the long run I got involved because it was worrying me that my reputation would also be hurt. <br /><br />He finally delivered the album in January of 2010. I still cannot believe it took him that long. I imagine the embarrassment he must have felt. The crazy thing is that he is still in business today and I have been hearing stories of couples who are suing and who have been waiting since 2010 and 2011 to get back photos... some of them are already starting to have children, and I have no idea why, but a few also booked him for baby pictures ... which I assume they’ll get when their children are probably in grade school. Good advice would be to always do your research and find out about past clients.</p>

<p>Thank you all for your support and advice. Rafeal, we are actually located in Texas so it's not the same guy. Hate that you had to be the middle in a situation like that. <br>

As fate would have it, we received our photos today! They were sent on Friday, consequently the same day my dad decided to jump in on all of this and send the fellow an email. <br>

The photos are overall really amazing. I think he wasn't finished, however, because there are things not edited that I expect should have been, and some photos missing entirely that I know were taken. I'm going to let it alone now, though. We didn't get as many posing photos of us as I thought, which is a shame, but we have a lot of candid shots, which are the best in the end anyway. I'm going to be doing some editing on my end for some of them. I am overall happy with them, and happy to be done with the whole ordeal. <br>

Thanks again. </p>

Maybe consider setting up a new email address with a fake name. Make a new enquiry, sound extremely interested and excited and

let him know it's a big budget wedding. Then set up a meeting in person with him, somewhere suitable or even ask if you could drop

by his studio / house for a meeting. Take backup and confront the sucker.

Duplicate post - moderator please remove.

<p>Glad you got them! Best of luck to you and your husband!</p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

>>>photos missing entirely that I know were taken.<<<

 

That's typical. Clients often fixate on this but it frequently occurs because the images are not presentable and that is a normal phenomenon.

<p>Hi Kimberly,</p>

<p>First of all... I am so glad to hear you got your photos. As soon as you started mentioning lack of contact from your photographer, I started thinking 'this bride will never see her photos'.<br /><br />This sort of thing does happen, just like in any industry - eg a builder not fulfilling contract and leaving home owners with an unfinished property. This is why contracts/agreements are in place and contractors are held responsible. However I think with photographers it seems harder to regulate, there are often no contracts or agreements or at least none that will hold up in a court.<br /> It saddens me greatly to hear of stories like this and knowing that so called 'wedding photographers' can do this to people.</p>

<p>I LOVE the comment about booking a meeting with him under a fake email address and name. I know you have your photos, and that's great - but don't let this slide. If at least not for your sake, but for the sake of other clients who run the risk of being duped by this guy. These kind of people need to be confronted! Yes the pictures are great, but does that excuse his behaviour? You got your pictures - the next couple may not be so lucky. (and yes it does happen - I live in a town where a photographer went bust and left, without ever delivering photos from at least 4 weddings and numerous other photo sessions - I know because these people were friends of friends, or came to me to have re-shoots done.)</p>

<p>Regards,<br />June</p>

<p>Kimberly,<br>

I'm glad to read that you finally got something out this guy, although it wasn't everything you expected. But I have to ask - didn't you see some big red flags in the early going with this so called professional? Regardless of the services being purchased I have a few things that prevent me from doing business with others:<br>

1. No bricks and mortar = no business from me<br>

2. Poor performance on early deliverable (e.g. engagement photos) = your FIRED!<br>

3. No written contract = no business<br>

4. Poor communications skills - especially written = no business<br>

In a business I owned previously in another industry I was the only one out of my 65 other local competitors that had written contracts reviewed by my lawyer for my customers. No signed contract; no business. I actually gained a number of customers from my competitors just because I actually had a written contract. Curiously most of those folks were in the law enforcement business and appreciated the contract. Due to the high physical risk nature of the business it shocked me that none of my competitors didn't any written contracts - or liability insurance - but that's a whole other discussion. <br>

Call me old fashioned, but I just hate being taken advantage off, and I hate seeing it happen to others.</p>

<p>Stephen, caution here, many of us legitimate business people choose to work out of our home to keep costs low. I'm a family man and an office does one of two things, drive pricing up or take money away from my family. Maybe both.<br>

<br />I won't work without a written contract and won't accept one without a face:face meeting.<br>

I'm an under promise/over deliver kind of photog. I told my last bride 30 days for her images to be online for proofing and got them up in 15. Took six months to get her album to her, but that was through multiple attempts to get HER to choose her images. All in all, an incredibly satisfied customer.<br>

Hate to hear what happened to Kimberly, but many young first time brides don't know enough. We professionsals must overcome that general lack of knowledge and help prevent these kinds of issues.<br>

I, for one, am working with local vendors to create a local Wedding 101 panel.</p>

<p>James, let me clarify - as I too am self employed and work out of a home office. For me "no bricks and mortar" means that as a business entity you must provide a valid physical mailing address - a PO Box isn't acceptable for me. My reasoning is quite simple, the internet has provided a completely unregulated environment for scammers, grifters or fraudsters to ply there trade. If I'm going to do business with you, I want to know where your place of business is. If your not prepared to reveal that publicly it begs the question "What have you got to hide?"</p>

<p>Against my better judgement I worked on contract for a company that went out of its way to hide its place of business from its customers. Given that customer service was a large component of the business, this made for periodic difficulties, etc. A few years back I also ran my own agribusiness, so all my customers knew exactly where I conducted my business. A business that won't provide a physical address raises a big red flag for me. </p>

 

<p>Stephen, thanks for clarifiying. Now it all makes more sense. I don't openly pulicize my home address for privacy, even though I have space I COULD meet clients were it not full of "junk".<br>

My mancave would make a great, stylish office with pine walls and wood floors. I could envision it with a nice desk, a mounted preview screen and, of course, my framed work gracing the walls. It has nice inset lighting for a soothing mood. But noooo, my wife, the "paper hoarder" has it full of boxes of old paper items and books and stuff that she doesn't want to get rid of. I finally have a small victory in that 1/2 of it is set aside for a yard sale or Goodwill in the Spring.<br>

Once I qualify a lead, I can give the option of my home or theirs or a mutually agreeable place. My last booking was done in a golf clubhouse. I'm still insistent on a face to face meeting before accepting a contract.<br>

This last booking came to me from a phone message inquiry. Caller ID had one area code, the VM requested a call to a wholly different area code. Red flags went up, but I did connect with the couple to find they had recently moved to my area from out west. Their home address, locally, checked out so all is well.</p>