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Advice: Super Moon with Landscape Detail


hugebob

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<p>Hi All,<br /><br />There's a super moon this weekend (6/23/2013) that I'd like to shoot with my Canon 5D and either a 300mm f2/.8L IS or 400mm f/4.0L IS DO (rentals). I'm in the DC area and I've got my location chosen (<a href="http://goo.gl/maps/4ivgp">Key Bridge</a>). The moon will pass by both the Washington Monument and Lincoln Memorial. So, I have a chance at both with the moon. The problem I see is that by the time the moon is visible it will be well after sunset leaving the moon as the brightest object in the scene. Wanting to get as much landscape detail as possible without a long exposure, how would you suggest I handle this? I'm wondering if I could take a shot of the landscape while it's still fairly lit shortly before sunset. Then, after the moon is up, take a shot of the same scene with the moon in position. Since the 5D has no multiple exposure mode, I was thinking I'd have to do some sort of overly or merge in Photoshop later. I'm just wondering if I'd get the results I'm think of when combining light over dark or vice versa. Your thoughts?</p>

 

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<p>Your combining images idea is a good one. As you know the shot of the moon will be a short exposure, as it is merely reflected sunlight. Good luck on the atmospherics, as this is what often diminishes good moon shots. I usually use 400mm & up, and when the atmospherics are good, I get outstanding shots.</p>
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<p>Stephen,<br>

I love experimenting. So, I'm willing to put up with the atmospheric problem especially in the Summer overlooking a city. If I get this down, I'll try again in the winter (ugh). I'm just wondering how combining two images that will differ that much in exposure will come out. Have you come across any tutorials on the subject?</p>

 

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<p>Combining images as layers in PS is a good approach. You can use masks to "dodge and burn" from the differently exposed layers.</p>

<p>You can also take a couple or three <em>deeply</em> bracketed exposures at the time the moon is in the right position and combine those in the same way. You can mask the moon layer very sharply (maybe with a 2 px blur), superimposing that over the layer that exposes the city scene to your liking.</p>

<p>The one thing I know is this: If you've got the bracketed exposures, you can decide later what you want to do with them. So get them! You may be tempted to combine them with HDR, but I think that will kill the contrast of the moon around the edges. I think the layering technique will work much better. Either way, it starts with bracketed exposures.</p>

<p>The only other thing I would suggest is to practice your shot before the big night. The moon might not be as super, but it will still be a bright moon. If it works for your test shots, it will work for the real deal.</p>

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<p>Hmmm... dig in your tripod in the ground well and start shooting near sunset so you can combine the images later in "photoshop" of your choice.<br /> Asides:</p>

<ol>

<li>If the moon is really supposed to pass over the memorials, perhaps a better choice of venues would be the <em>Netherlands Carillon</em> on the Virginia side (you know, where the US Marine Corps War Memorial is located.) You can line up all three landmarks from there (Lincoln Memorial, Washington Monument and the Capitol.) That should be nice. (Incidentally, that area is my favorite to shoot fourth-of-July fireworks.)</li>

<li>I'm a bit puzzled by your choice of lenses. From the Memorial Bridge even a 200 mm lens (on a FF rig) provides a rather tight crop of the memorials so unless you want to shoot the moon separately with 300 or 400 mm (too short for a nice, big moon on a FF IMO) and then combine it with the cityscape shot with another lens, you'll get a rather tight crop. Perhaps you have something else in mind? How high is the moon supposed to be over the memorials?</li>

</ol>

<p>Edit: Even from the Key Bridge 300-400 mm may be too long.</p>

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<p>Sarah,<br>

Thanks for your input. I do plan on practicing the night before. I'll have to look up those Photoshop techniques on Youtube. I'm not well versed in Photoshop yet.<br>

<br />Michael,<br>

I know and love that vantage point (Carillon/ USMC War Memorial). But, according to the Photographer's Ephemeris, the moon will be too far to the southeast from that vantage point. From the Key Bridge, I should be able to watch the moon rise from below the horizon. As it rises and moves across the sky, it'll pass behind the two monument of interest. Though, I might not be able to get them in the same shot. I picked those lenses because I read that in shots like this where you want a good size moon and foreground, you want distance and long lenses. I'll give it a trial run the night before and post results. Then when super moon night rolls around, I'll capture those and post them.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>Photoshop is a good back up strategy, but capturing an actual scene is tons of fun. Getting conditions right requires a bit of luck for atmosphere to cooperate.</p>

<p><a title="Moon set on a pink tinged Mt. Evans by dcstep, on Flickr" href=" Moon set on a pink tinged Mt. Evans src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5217/5459513763_c0769ae83c_n.jpg" alt="Moon set on a pink tinged Mt. Evans" width="320" height="213" /></a></p>

<p><a title="Romantic full moon as seen from London Eye by dcstep, on Flickr" href=" Romantic full moon as seen from London Eye src="http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3491/3884881520_8ac87e3663_n.jpg" alt="Romantic full moon as seen from London Eye" width="320" height="231" /></a><br>

Start shooting before the moon is ideal position and try a variety of settings. Realize that the moon is very bright, so any shots showing good foreground detail will overexpose the moon.</p>

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<p>Using the Az/Alt Tool of the <a href="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/sunmooncalc/">LF Sun/Moon Calculator</a>, I get azimuth and altitude to the Washington Monument of 112.6° and 3.1° (the Washington Monument is 555.4 ft high). But on 23 June, I show the Moon rising at an azimuth of 115°, so even then it will be 3° to the south of the Monument. By the time the Moon is at half the altitude of the Monument (just after 21:00 PM EDT), its azimuth will be 116.4°, or about seven diameters south of the Monument. When the center of the Moon is even with the top of the Monument, the azimuth will be 118°. If you shoot from the north side of the river, it looks as if the Monument will be a bit far to the south—but that really depends on what you’re looking to get. I haven’t been in DC in years, so I’m not up on the best vantage points, and don’t have a better one to suggest.</p>

<p>On 23 June, the Moon rises 11 minutes after sunset. At 21:00, I estimate that the Moon will be just over 1 EV brighter than the sky—so you might be able to get this with one shot. But that’s a pretty rough estimate that can vary considerably with atmospheric conditions. By 21:10 (33 minutes after sunset), when the Moon is even with the top of the Monument, I estimate a difference of about 6 EV, which is going to be tough without bracketed exposures. When the Moon is going up and the Sun is going down, things get out of hand pretty fast ...</p>

<p>Be very cautious about basing exposure on practice the night before, when the Moon rises 47 minutes before sunset. You can’t simply take your test exposures at the same times after sunset as you plan to shoot the next night, either, because the Moon will be much higher in the sky and consequently much brighter.</p>

<p>Getting exposures right for a moon with landscape is mighty tough more than about 20 minutes after sunset (and even tougher when the Moon is fairly high in the sky). The best approach is probably to make reasonable estimates and then make pretty wide brackets as Sara suggested—and hope at least two of them will work in HDR.</p>

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<p>I do realize that the unadulterated reality makes for a less spectacular image... You might have to shoot a day earlier to catch the moon while the sun is still setting. In general, the moon rises somewhat more than 45 minutes later each succeeding day. A quick peek at the azimuth and altitude chart for those days http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.php puts the sun setting almost directly upriver as the moon rises into position at 8:00 ET on 6/22. But... why bother when you can just 'Shop it.</p>
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<p>David,<br>

I like your top shots especially the top image! It's exactly the kind of shot I'm after! It looks as if you had plenty of sunlight to work with.<br>

<br />Jeff,<br>

That's another one of my shortcomings: i.e., my guestimations of elevation in degrees. I'm not really sure what those elevations look like. I know they refer to the elevation of the center of the moon. But, what that looks like I'll have to wait and see. I'll have the equipment for the weekend. So, I'll be able to go out on three evenings to take a stab at it. I see that you are the author of <a title="The Sun/Moon Calculator © 1998–2009 Jeff Conrad">The Sun/Moon Calculator</a>! Nice!</p>

 

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Robert, a Theodolite app may help you pre-visualizing where will be the Moon. There are also some aumented reality

astronomical apps that overlays the moon position while showing a real-time camera capture, like SkyView. I use these,

mostly the Theodolite app, together with The Photographer Efemeris.

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<p>Robert,</p>

<p>Positions of the Sun and Moon are commonly given in angular measure: azimuth, the angle from North in the horizontal plane, and altitude, the vertical angle above the horizontal. So for taking shots of the Sun or Moon, it makes sense to express positions of terrestrial features in the same measure. For example, if from your planned shooting position near Key Bridge you wanted the center of the Moon to align with the top of the Washington Monument, you would try to find a time when the Moon has an azimuth of 112.6° and an altitude of 3.1°.</p>

<p>You could find such times using the Sun/Moon Calculator on the LF site. If you were to insist on exact alignment, you’d find few opportunities. But if you were to allow a reasonable leeway—say azimuth and altitude within ±0.5°—and further require that such positions occur between sunset and 20 minutes thereafter, and look for dates in the next 10 years, you’d find four dates that meet the criteria. And one of those dates is ... 22 July 2013. It doesn’t have an exact alignment—the center of the Moon is 0.6° above the Monument when azimuths coincide—but it might be close enough for government work. And this will happen at 10 minutes after sunset, so a single exposure should suffice—and you might get some really nice twilight sky.</p>

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<p>Ruben,<br>

I like that app! I checked it out on Youtube: NICE! I'm going to give it a try. I have an Android device, so I'll get that version. That should at least give me a visual approximation of where the moon will be.</p>

<p>Jeff,<br>

I use TPE, so I'm familiar with azimuth and altitude in degrees, different twilight defs, etc. I just don't know what they actually look like; that is, is, say, +5 degrees high enough or is double digits too high? I'm not really particular about where the moon will. As long as it's in close enough proximity to landscape elements, I'll be satisfied.</p>

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<p>Robert,</p>

<p>I wasn’t really sure what you meant ...</p>

<p>To me, there are two ways to interpret “High enough or too high?” The first obviously relates to aesthetics; the second relates to the Moon’s luminance, which increases rapidly with altitude because there is less atmospheric extinction. This can work both ways—before sunset, the Moon just above the horizon can be so faint that it’s barely visible. After sunset, the contrast can rapidly get so great that you can’t get the shot with a single exposure. A good example of the latter would be getting the Moon above the Washington Monument from the Lincoln Memorial ; the top of the Monument has altitude of about 9°, so the Moon would be quite bright, and getting the shot more than about 10 minutes after sunset would probably require two exposures.</p>

<p>It’s so obvious that you’ve probably already thought of it, but using the known directions to one or more terrestrial features as “rulers” is often quite helpful. For example, if you know the Washington Monument has altitude of 3° and the Sun’s or Moon’s altitude is 2°, you can visualize either body as being at 2/3 of the Monument’s height. In areas (such as San Francisco) where I shoot freqently, I have a database of lat/lon/elevation for many features—natural and man-made—and possible camera positions, and I run a program that calculates az/alt/distance from a camera position to each of the features that may be in the picture. It’s a sort of poor-man’s virtual reality (like you’d have on an alphanumeric terminal ...), but it has nonetheless worked quite well for me.</p>

<p>It’s possible to do a better job if you already have an image from your planned camera location—just put the image in PS and insert a white disc (or previous Moon image) scaled to the Moon’s angular diameter for the date and move it around to see what looks good. The known az/alt of a feature can again be used as a ruler. But this is usually more work than I want to go through, so I just use the method in the previous paragraph.</p>

<p>The Hunter Research Theodolite app looks interesting—and you won’t get a decent traditional clinometer (e.g., Suunto) for anywhere near the price. One general comment about field measurements, however: the margin of error—especially in azimuth—is usually several Moon angular diameters (note that the Theodolite app’s compass accuracy is ±5°, about the same as most other electronic compasses). I’ve usually had <em>much</em> better luck with calculated az/alt. An exception may be for features at small distances—say a mile or less—because slight errors in any of lat/ lon/elevation for either the feature or the camera position can lead to large angular errors (been there and done that ...).</p>

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