Mamiya RZ67 purchase - help with best version/lens/digital back?

<p>Hi there,</p>

<p>After various searches here and at google around these questions, most threads I can find date from 2004 to 2009, which is not that current, I still have some doubts, and was wondering if anyone could help out.</p>

<p>Since getting into film recently, I've been lusting for a 6x7 system. I looked at the RB67 which I think I'd love for being fully mechanical. But then I moved on to the RZ67, because I figure it's newer and should be in better condition (if well chosen of course), also because I would have a wider range of lenses to choose from (RB and RZ).</p>

<p>I haven't bought anything yet because I don't know what would be the better body (Pro, Pro II or Pro IID) and lens (when looking at kits).<br>

I would like the possibility to go for a digital back someday, but after extensive research I'm still not sure of the compatibility options. So far here is what I THINK I know:<br>

RB67 Pro and Pro II can take phase one digital backs by means of a hasselblad V adapter - is this correct?<br>

RB67 Pro IID can take Mamiya/Leaf digital backs by means of a Leaf adapter? Can they also take the phase one backs?<br>

Considering these options, what would be the best body to buy?<br>

Regarding the lenses, when looking at kits (body, lens and backs) mostly I see the 90mm f3.5, the 110 f2.8 and sometimes the 127mm lens. Regarding specifications the 110mm would be the winner, but I know that's not always the case. Eventually I'd get more lenses, but I'd like something nice to start off with.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post, but I was hoping to get this straightened out before buying a kit and then finding out it doesn't suit my needs.</p>

<p>Thank you very much, best regards!</p>

<p>I shoot an RB67 Pro-S and having seen large images taken with the 110mm f2.8 i really, really wish it would work on my RB.</p>

<p>Otherwise, any of the Mamiya APO lenses would be on my short-list. Honestly, lens selection depends mostly on your choice of subject and/or how you prefer your subject to look (ie - common landscape lenses tend to be wide 50mm/65mm, but there are folks who use tele's for landscape with good result).</p>

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Thanks for the input, so I guess the 110mm would be a good first choice then.<br>

Now all that's left is what body I should get. Anyone out there that can shed some light on the whole digital back/adapter/body version compatibility?</p>

<p>Cheers, and thank you!</p>

<p>You made a typo above...you want an RZ67. :-)<br>

<br />You can use both Phase and Leaf backs on the RZ Pro/Pro II. You'll need an adapter, and in the case of the Phase...a wake up cable. The adapter is just a piece of metal...no electronics. I use the Mamiya 645AF back.<br /><br />I can't recall what the Pro IID brings to the table...I think it can use the ZD back (which can't be used on the older cameras). But it uses a much more expensive adapter.<br>

<br />But then, everything associated with MFDB is expensive. :-)</p>

<p>What the ProIID brings to the table is the ability to use ALL digital backs in M (Mamiya 645AFD) mount, without needing a wake-up cable. The HX701 M-mount adapter has electronic contacts which wake up the back internally, and tell it when to expose and for how long. It's just like using the same back on a 645AFD/AFDII/AFDIII/DF. No wake-up cables, and no lens-synch cables.</p>

<p>This means that certain backs which completely lack a wake-up port (Kodak Proback 645M, Mamiya ZD) can be used on the ProIID. They cannot be used on any other RZ67 version like the far cheaper ProII [non-D]...this is a shame, as they are the most affordable self-contained backs on the used market and capable of great results (I use a Kodak 645M on my 645AFD).</p>

<p>It also means that certain other backs with Kodak sensors (the PhaseOne P20/P21/P25/P30/P45, and their improved versions P20+/P21+/P35+/P30+/P45+), when used on the ProIID, don't need the wake-up cable and associated awkward 2-step shooting sequence, that they need on other RZ67 versions.</p>

<p>Phase One M-mount backs other than the ones I've listed, and all Leaf backs, use Dalsa "always-alert" sensors which do not require a wake-up cable (but which pay the penalties of quicker battery drain and higher dark noise as a consequence), and so they can be used easily on all RZ67 versions, with, as Gregory said, a no-electronics plain metal adapter. But the back still needs to know when to start and end an exposure, so there is a synch cable run from the lens's PC socket to the back.</p>

<p>The RB67 is quite a neglected platform for digital backs, but you can use a Mamiya ZD back on it with a HX702 adapter.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Yes, it's a typo, sorry, I meant the RZ67 of course.</p>

<p>Well, not needing sync cables would be nice, Pro IID models are, as far as I can find, around double in price when compared with a Pro II. That, plus the expensive adapter make it an altogether very expensive option. Would it be worth it, I mean, could I get the same result with a Pro II, simple adapter and sync cable?</p>

<p>How much is that all-metal adapter for the Pro II? Is there any reference or model to look for, or is it the same hasselblad V adapter I mentioned in the first post?<br>

I'm looking for the most cost effective alternative to eventually get into digital MF, image quality is very important. Any suggestions on body version+adapter+back combinations, taking into account current prices on the used market?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>I had a RZ67 Pro II kit that I shot both film and digital with for a while. I put together a 5 lens kit with a Leaf Aptus 22 back, all purchased used since I wanted to do it as economically as possible - same as what you are looking to do. I recently sold it since I decided I wanted to shoot just 35mm digital with my Canon kit.</p>

<p>Here's my short takeaways...</p>

<p>RZ67 Pro II (non D) is the best value on the camera side, and will work fine with a digital back with the right adapter (no wakeup cable needed on the right back). Good lenses to look at are the 65mm LA, 110mm f/2.8 W-N, 140mm LA Macro, 150mm f/3.5, 180mm f/4.5 W-N. Newer versions are better, W is newer than non W, W-N is newer/better still. I noticed this particularly on the 180mm lens. The LA lenses are floating element lenses, pay close attention to make sure that you're purchasing the newest version. The 50mm ULD lens is supposed to be very good too, but can be as much as twice the price of all the others listed above. I put together a 5 lens kit for around $1500 purchasing used.</p>

<p>For digital backs, you are probably looking at the entry level backs in the 22megapixel range. They are the best value, and have the largest physical sensor size (36x48mm). Don't be put off by the "lesser" resolution, the final image quality is exceptionally detailed especially with the RZ glass. Much better than my 1Ds III and L primes. You should be looking at a Mamiya mount back. Skip the idea of a V-Series back since they are more expensive because of the Hasselblad users who want to buy them. The cheapest decent Mamiya mount back is the ZD back, but people haven't seemed as fond of that one because of odd digital quirks (can't remember exactly what, but the image quality wasn't quite as good if I recall correctly). The other big contenders are the Leaf Aptus 22 and the Phase One P25 or P25+. Leaf is a little cheaper, and doesn't require a wakeup cable where the Phase one does... so the Leaf would be my recommendation. I found mine for around $3500. The only cable needed was a sync cable from the lens to the back. I purchased the cable from Capture Integration, along with a viewfinder mask. They also do a lot of business in used digital backs and are very knowledgeable, although I bought my back from a private party (cheaper, but no support or warranty).</p>

<p>Adapters plates are another whole subject. With a RZ67 Pro II (non-D) your options are either a modified HX-701 (what I used) or a HX-705 or one of the Leaf adapters. Expect to pay $500+ for the adapter plate. I'd suggest reading this thread for further info:</p>

<p>http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-digital-backs/34524-df-rz.html</p>

<p>Hope this helps, let me know if you have other questions.</p>

<p>Sheldon pretty much nailed all of it. The only thing I'll add is that you have the option of cheaper backs if you could do without instant review. I initially used the 11mp H10 (with a homemade wakeup cable). It wasn't quite effective on the RZ since it was a 24x36 back. It had to be used tethered.<br /><br />I upgraded to the Valeo 22wi and it's obviously much more useful. It also doesn't have a screen on it...it's the Aptus 22 without a screen. It can be shot tethered or with a data/battery pack. <br>

<br />I used both on the same Leaf 17 adapter. It required some slight mod to fit the Phase back, but it works with both now.</p>

<p>Jose, where are you located? I may be selling my stuff soon if I decide to go fully FF.</p>

<p>One question I have for Sheldon...my adapter shows up as ISO800 on my RZ. Or at least that's what it seems to be telling the AE finder based on exposure calcs. Yair said it should show up as ISO25 or ISO50.<br /><br />Not that I use it on AE much, but any ideas what the problem might be?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Not sure about the adapter and AE prism finder, I only used the WLF when I was shooting.</p>

<p>Sheldon, many thanks for the detailed explanation. The bit about the lenses is very useful, I always wondered what the difference between the W and W-N versions. I'll probably go for the Pro II version...<br>

Cheers!</p>

<p>Any thoughts on the 180 mm Mamiya lens for the RZ Pro? Just bought my first RZ67 will work with Capture Integration to find the best digital back - those guys rock if you're unfamiliar. Very consultative vs. sales-y. I digress...I'm looking for lens opinions...based on the reading I've done...it sounds like a very versatile lens.</p>

<p>Any thoughts on the 180 mm Mamiya lens for the RZ Pro? Just bought my first RZ67 will work with Capture Integration to find the best digital back - those guys rock if you're unfamiliar. Very consultative vs. sales-y. I digress...I'm looking for lens opinions...based on the reading I've done...it sounds like a very versatile lens.</p>

<p>I'm a bit late chiming in, but I would <em>highly</em> recommend the 180 for the RZ67. I've got the W-N version, and it's excellent.</p>

<p>I'm shooting with a recently-acquired ancient--but still very capable indeed--Sinarback 54M, which I got for a relative song in the medium format digital world. You do have to shoot with it tethered, but as I'm using it almost exclusively in the studio, that's not a problem--and at the price I got it for, it was well worth it.</p>

<p>Here's an example of what that back and the 180 will do. (It has been sharpened for print, so viewed full-resolution on screen, it may appear to be a bit over sharpened--but it will show you what you can get out of this combination.)<br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.presquevu.com/apa071.jpg">Portrait of Ade</a></p>