Leica M vs Leicaflex SL

<p>Having been away from photography a few years, burned out due to sports and weddings, I'm looking for something simple... sort of a one camera one/two lens mentality.<br>

My approach will be a bit of everything. Some street portraits, family portraits, and definately some long exposure tripod bound landscape work.<br>

I always found the M3/M2 to be just about perfect camera for my personal needs. Not sure how that will translate into landscape.<br>

I'm torn... I really love the rangefinders, but I'm discovering the Leica SL and R series has some screaming bargains in the glass department.<br>

Is the 2 cam glass for say 50mm Summicron's from the Leicaflex generation the same optical formula as the 3cam/r glass?<br>

Were the SL's reliable in their day and are good examples hard to find? <br>

Not interested in digital and/or the cost and trouble of using Nikon or Canon bodies. </p>

<p>Thanks...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The SL models were very reliable, but are showing their age, and you might factor into the total cost a CLA or prism replacement/resilvering. I, personally preferred the SL2 with its more extensive metering range. Unlike the M series of cameras, which are pretty light in weight, you will find the R series and their lenses pretty heavy by way of comparison. BTW, the price of used R lenses just went up with Leica's recent introduction of the Leica M and its R lens adapter.</p>

<p>SL2 with 60 mm f2.8 micro 81A filter Valvia 50</p><div></div>

<p>Will a 3cam work on an SL?</p>

<p>Lack of a meter doesn't matter much to me...</p>

The lenses I used on my SL were all 3 cam. Don't know about the optical formula diff between 2 and 3 cams, but my 3

cam 50mm Summicron was one of the best lenses I've ever owned. And the SL never broke down once. Tank.

<p>I agree, the Leicaflex cameras are bulletproof, and their lenses are superb. In my experience, the later R 50 Summicrons have ugly bokeh compared to the earlier models. Much prefer the early 50 Summicrons. The 90 lenses are amazing, and whether or not you go for the Elmarit or the Summicron you won't be disappointed, although I preferr the Summicron for it's better portrait ability. Magical stuff at f2, while the Elmarit tended to be a little sharper. The Leicaflex SL has excellent metering and one of the best viewfinders in photography, but watch out for yellowing or streaked viewfinders. My gripe w/ the Leicaflex cameras is their size and weight. We're talking nearly medium format here, so I always use Nikon SLR's w/ my Leica R glass. A $15 Chinese knock off of the Leitax lens mount allows you to shoot Leica R lenses on lots of different models of SLR's in stop down mode. The motorized film advance on the N6006/N8008/N90s cameras can speed up your street shooting too.</p>

<p>The SL can use 1,2, or 3 cam lenses, but for metering I think you will want a 2 or 3 cammer.</p>

<p>Here's a link to which "cams" can be used on which camera bodies. There are a few unusual exceptions, and in the past, many R lens aficianados (myself included), periodically had cams added to lenses so that we could use them on later bodies.</p>

<p>Well..I started the ball rolling... it was a sleepless night of research and self examination.</p>

<p>Just pulled the trigger on a SL/50mm Summicron (2cam) combo... Even though I paid up for the BIN option, I felt $450 was a decent value. Plus it has a 14 day return option.</p>

<p>The SLR will cover all of my bases... landscape being one of them.</p>

<p>Where to go from here? I don't know! </p>

<p>My wallett says from a $$$ standpoint going the SLR route will allow me to add a 90mm f/2.8 Elmar... AND ... a wide angle option for the cost of a basic M3/50cron/90mm f/4 starter set.</p>

<p>I'm sitting on a 90mm F/4 C-Elmar that needs a M3 body.... I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before getting a M3 </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Bobbie, years ago I went through the same thought process you did and acted on it. However at that time the SL and SL2 bodies were out of my price range so I have a first series Leicaflex with the external meter. I doubt if you could ever find a brighter viewfinder which makes the Leicaflex series usable even in candle light. If your purchase is in good shape, the shutter release is super smooth and the speeds go to 1/2000. As I have never used an SL or SL2, I don't know if shutter speeds are incrmental on them between dial speed settings, mine are, and 1/200 actually seems to work. Watch out for the lens release if it is made of plastic, switch it out for the metal replacement as it is not easy to release a lens if the plastic tab breaks while you have a lens mounted. The first series Summicron 50 is a great lens despite its age, you'll need a lens hood though. I recently bought a used (and rebuilt) 35 Elmarit 2.8 from Sherry K. and it gets a lot of use along with the 50. Great images from both. But the comments on Leicaflex weight are accurate, you'll need a camera strap with a really wide, non slip shoulder web for any comfort. I think of my Leicaflex as a big heavy pro level diecast SLR with an M3 stuffed in it. My next Leica will be a well used (and taken care of) Leicaflex SL body with an accurate meter.</p>

<p>Got all three -- Leicaflex Standard (smoothest winding of ANY Leiz camera and REALLY a TANK; SL (fast and easy but, in my opinion, not as sexy as the other two -- with apologies to Doug Herr); and the SL2 (epitome of exposure sensitivity, kinda like the M5 meter). But they are heavy compared to my M2 w/35 1:2.8 Summaron.</p>

<p>I used the SL for very many years - loved it, but I found it's meter's insensitivity to low light a bit of a drawback. I solved this by having a handheld meter when light levels got low (below 1/60 at f2 with ISO 50 film). A better solution would be to get the SL2 which solved that issue. They are heavy cameras, but not terrible, and the more recent R lenses tend to be lighter. My first 2 lenses were the 50mm and 90mm Summicrons. You can't go wrong with them either.</p>

<p>You might check battery availability if it is important for you.</p>

<p>I own 2 SL I used extensively.... Great camera, very good lens and like Steven says before, you must to do a good cla because they can present differents problems when working.</p>

I never used a strap on my SL. But I carried an open top bag that it sat in (along with a CL and loads of film, flash and

meter). I just pulled it out of the bag to shoot. Straps irritate the hell out of me. ;-)

<p>I've owned both Canon and Nikon in a past semi-professional life, but I always felt the pull towards Leica as a daliance, a flirtation that was mystical and regal. I've owned briefly and sold several M bodies and glass. One of my reservations was the frustrating quirkiness of the rangefinders that was a love hate relationship, and the enormous cost. Maybe I'll be cussing myself come Monday for buying a full frame SLR...</p>

<p>But tonight I'm cooking with GAS... I just pinch myself when looking over all the affordable prices of this R glass in comparison to the M glass. I have been rather selective and patient.</p>

<p>The 28/50/90mm lens R set I'm building will come in slightly less than $1500+/- depending on the purchase of a portrait lens... which was my budget.</p>

<p>Even used, comparable M system would have cost upwards of $3500. I just would not have been happy without the flagship M classics, specially when their bigger brothers are half the cost. </p>

<p>Tonight, I just picked up a clean 28mm Elmar f2.8 w/hood for $500 to go along with the SL body and 50mm 'Cron purchase.</p>

<p>Eyeing a couple of affordable 90mm f2.8 R-Elmar's. The 90mm R 'Cron isn't cheap. Having had the M 'Cron in the past, I'm having a hard time deciding with this choice.</p>

<p>I've seen a few 135mm f2.8's go for $300. Then there is the affordable 100mm f4 Macro... just insane. Even the 35mm 'Cron is somewhat affordable in comparison.</p>

<p>Yeah, I'm a couple of years late to the M party as those prices have doubled or more... and yeah, I'm buying into a dead sysytem. However, if this was about gear I would have just bought back into Canon or Nikon, just about anything instead of a 1960's SLR.</p>

<p>I justify it by telling myself I'm owning classic glass I have always lusted for in one form or another. Overtime, I might add to the collection simply because it's affordable and available.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of the guidence!</p>

<p> </p>

<p>The wider angle lenses are a little more difficult to focus with wider angle lenses; of course, you can rely on dof. </p>

<p>Along with the M5, the Leicaflex SL is my favorite. I have 3 of each. Does that make a gaggle of cameras? </p>

<p>The original Leicaflex is pretty special too. Sooooo smooth.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I'll post this late comment for someone who might be researching this issue: People always bust on the Leicaflex series because of their weight, but they're really no more heavier of any camera of that era (late 60's, early 70's).</p>

<p>A Leicaflex SL (5 samples tested) weighs about 745 grams. That's about 150 grams LESS then a Nikon F/F2 with metered head. In fact, a F/F2 with eye level prism weighs in that 750 gram range. Additionally, that's about the same weight as a Nikon F3 and Canon F1/FTB. </p>

<p>Modern compact SLRs are in that 600 gram range (e.g., R6, FM2n, ext). So basically it's about 150 grams heavier.</p>

<p>A Leica rangefinder is in that 560 gram range (w/o meter). So, again, with meter, a Leicaflex SL is about 150 grams heavier. </p>