Can Stopped Down Metering help me?

<p>Hello,<br>

I am a photography student...in BW photo I. I have two camera's a Canon EF and a Canon AE-1. I understand that both my cameras are made for shutter priority and have the Automatic Exposure function. For the class we have to shoot everything manually. <br>

I am struggling because I am used to shooting with a DSLR Canon T1i and used to metering for a "0" exposure. Now I am challenged with both of these camera's to set the shutter speed and then read the suggested f-stop, set the camera and then shoot.<br>

Can the "stopped down metering" feature be used to help me get a good exposure quicker and more like what I have become accustomed to with my digital camera. <br>

(With the Canon EF) I recently shot a roll of film for a depth of field assingment and most of my pictures were overexposed. I was shooting outside. Our instructor told us to shoot at shutter speed of 250 or higher if hand holding. So I used a speeds between 250 and 1000 so that I could increase and lower the f-stops for either shallow or wide depth of field. I used the f-stop that the meter suggested, but most of my pics were over exposed.<br>

Most of my classmates are using Pentax K1000 which has a meter similar to what we are all accostomed to on our digital cameras. At this point I really don't want to buy another camera. <br>

Any suggestions?<br>

Thanks</p>

 

<p>If I recall, the AE-1 can easily be operated like a manual camera by viewing the indicated shutter speed in the viewfinder and manually setting whatever speed you want, if you don't agree with the reading. I don't see that stop-down metering would make the process any simpler. </p>

<p>I have an EF and understand your frustration with how clunky it is to use it in manual metering mode. Not much can be done about that, unfortunately. According to the EF owner's manual, using stopped down metering with FD lenses is not recommended. As for the overexposure, because it is a bottom-center-weighted metering pattern, the EF has a backlighting compensation dial (left side). Perhaps, it is not set at "0"?</p>

<p>I find it curious that your instructor advised you to use a shutter speed of 1/250 or higher for all hand hled photos. The rule of thumb I learned was to use a shutter speed no slower than 1/(focal length) for hand holding photos. So, the slowest shutter speed with a 50mm lens would have been 1/60, the closest approximation to 1/50.</p>

<p>If you check your AE-1 manual, you will note you can indeed shoot in the manual mode, all you have to do is move your aperture marking on your lens off the green "A" (automatic) mode and then select the aperture you desire to shoot at, you refer to the metering in your viewfinder for the suggested shutter speed, and then choose it (or a different one if you want to compensate for the reflectivity of your subject).<br>

Stopped down metering on this camera is only available when your lens doesn't have auto diaphragm features, most Canon lenses do have auto diaphragm features...but a few, like the 500mm mirror lens don't, and therefore are metered in the stopped down mode.</p>

Your exposure issues will not be solved by stopping down. Both cameras have Simple center weighted meters. In my

experience the A1 needs so backlight compensation as the meter pattern tends to overestimate the impact of the sky (2/3

of a stop often works well). My EF tends to be better as the pattern is more weighted to the bottom (for landscape

orientation). The EF uses the old 625 mercury cells but it is the only FD body that can be switched to 1.5 V cells without

re-calibration of the meter. That said both cameras are old an 1/250 is a pretty fast speed so the shutt or metering may

be off. Try comparing them to the meter on your DSLR and you will learn how there meters behave and if there are any

shutter speed or meter accuracy issues. You will have to learn the foibles of a simple meter - just like we did back then!

<p>Thanks everyone for your advise. I will definitely take my digital camera out as well and compare the meter readings. <br>

As far as the shutter speed goes, I thought that I could use as slow as 1/60 while hand holding too. I asked the instructor last night about this and he said that he would prefer we keep the shutter speed at 1/250 or higher to ensure we don't have blurred images due to camera body shake. If we just have to go lower stay above 1/125.<br>

Since this is a depth of field assignment, I think I am going to use my tripod, set my appeture and then change the shutter speed until I see the meter reading match the appeture I have chosen. Then I'll take the shot. With the tripod, I won't have to concern myself as much with the 1/250 shutter speed recommendation.<br>

you all have raised another question for me on the metering.....<br>

I read that both camera's have a center weighted meter. Not sure I totally understand how to meter a scene with bottom weighted.<br>

I do have a grey card and I think I am going to take it out with me along with the tripod. <br>

Thanks for your advise - I will keep you posted.</p>

 

<p>The reason some manufacturers went to center-bottom weighted metering was to counter the sky's sometimes overwhelming effect on exposure. Since "most" pictures are taken of subjects on the ground with the camera held normally ("landscape" orientation), it makes sense to expose for the area of interest.</p>

<p>However, the thing to remember is that if you hold the camera vertically, the center-bottom weighted metering becomes center-right (or -left, depending on how you hold the camera) weighted metering. And, the sky will have a much stronger effect on the exposure.</p>

<p>This is why I prefer the F-1, New F-1, and FT/FTb. With the 12% semi-spot metering with the distinct rectangle, it is much easier to know exactly what you are metering on.</p>

<p>Using a grey-card will help eliminate metering uncertainty. Rather than carry around a grey card, another tip I learned was that you can meter off the palm of your hand. Apparently, in general, ALL human palms reflect about 36%. Since the meter is calibrated for 18%, you can meter off the palm of your hand (make sure it fills the entire frame), and then open the lens 1 f-stop to compensate for the "over-reflectance". Now you don't have to carry around more stuff...</p>

<p>Nakia, I feel your pain. I was in the same position you are after I'd reached beyond beginner status in my photography. My recommendation will solve your problem, but will cost you a small amount of money:</p>

<p>Buy a Canon FTb. It is Canon's equivalent to the Pentax KX, which was a much more full-featured brother of the K-1000. With the FTb, you have a meter that is coupled to both shutter speeds and apertures. It uses match-needle metering, where you bring the two needles together for correct exposure. Easy, quick, and accurate. And perhaps best of all, the FTb meters only the central 12% of the viewing area, indicated by a rectangular outline visible within the viewfinder.</p>

<p>You can buy clean FTbs on eBay for as little as $40, often less. I recommend the FTbn -- the "n" model has the black plastic tip on the film wind lever, so it's easy to spot. But either one is very useful and much more useful than the two cameras you currently own. If you go the eBay route, buy from somebody who is claiming that everything works properly. That way you stand a better chance of getting a camera that has a meter that responds accurately, and everything else works as planned.</p>

<p>FTb's use the now-discontinued 1.35v mercury battery. You can buy the expensive Wein substitute or you can buy number 675 hearing aid batteries for cheap. They are smaller in diameter than the Wein, but the battery in the FTb is held in place by spring tension, so diameter does not matter.</p>

<p>When I bought my first FTb, and set aside my Canon AE-1 and A-1, my photography improved enormously. Exposure improved because of the much more accurate partial metering system, and because I was shooting manually, I was slowing done some, taking the time to compose my shots and think about them more. </p>

<p>Don't get rid of that EF, though. The EF, for all its faults, is a gem of a camera. I own one, and I love it. I've just grown to accept its shortcomings and use it in the way it was intended. And for that, it does a great job.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Learn the "Sunny f/16 rule" and go from there. Once you have that basic concept down, you can pretty much do all manual metering in your head no matter what the conditions and you'll get very good results. They used to print it on film boxes and everyone knew it. It was the first thing they taught in photo class before the scourge of digital photography ruined everything for us film users.<br>

<br />Great film photographers knew the following things back in the day:</p>

<ol>

<li>Sunny f/16 rule</li>

<li>The rule of thirds</li>

<li>Reciprocity failure</li>

<li>Exposure compensation</li>

<li>The Zone System</li>

<li>Push/pull processing</li>

<li>The size of your equipment DOES matter</li>

<li>Things not to discuss at the dinner table: Sex, politics, religion and Canon vs. Nikon</li>

<li>Kodachome and Plus-X Pan were almost holy, like the Shroud of Turin</li>

<li>It took time, patience, study and talent to be an exceptional photographer</li>

</ol>

<p>Have fun using film. You might find in the end that you'll find it more fulfilling than digital. For me, it's the fact that it's solid and real and not just a bunch of ones and zeros that are easily manipulated on a laptop.</p>

<p>I have an EF, and if I want to use it manually take the lens off "A", and use a separate hand held light meter.</p>

<p>According to the EF manual stopped down metering is recommended with FD lenses only with FL lenses, FD lenses can only be used with bellows, and other devices that remove the lens from the camera body with stopped down metering.</p>

<p> Thank you, Thank you , and Thank you....everyone for all of your responses. <br>

Craig - I have been researching the Zone System (has helped me a lot), I don't have sunny f/16 rule and all of the apertures and shutter speeds memorized yet but I think before this is all over I will. <br>

Steven Endo - that is a great point about the meter and shooting vertical. thanks I will remember that.<br>

Michael McBroom - I will look into the Canon Ftb. That's not a bad price. I've never purchased anything off of ebay...so that makes me a little nervous.<br>

I was very frustrated about how my film turned out. I ended up taking my Canon EF to a local camera store to have my meter looked at. They tested it with a grey card and hand held meter and found that my meter was reading either a stop and 1/2 or two stops off. (I should have wrote it down, bc now I can't remember )<br>

Anyway, they suggested that I increase my ISO from 400 (which matched my film speed) to 800 to compensate for the difference. The instructor also suggested that I do some bracketing on each shot. At least shoot one at the suggested exposure and then go down one and take another shot. <br>

Now I have to rush to shoot the rest of this roll. It kind of bums me out bc the shots I took for shallow depth of field were of some men working to dig a home foundation, the foreground, middle ground and background were beautiful....and I know I can't recreate that one :o( <br>

There are more interesting shots out there....I have to find the time to go shoot them. <br>

Also in this assignment is motion...got the expressed motion, have to retake one for captured.</p>

<p>Nakia if you are contemplating a career in photography a decent hand held light meter capable of taking reflected and incidental light readings is IMO essential.</p>

<p>Nakia if you are contemplating a career in photography a decent hand held light meter capable of taking reflected and incidental light readings is IMO essential.</p>

<p>Hey Everybody,<br>

Boy have i been BUSY lately. I have had so many ups and downs with this photography class. After I posted this question, I went out with my iphone app, my Canon EF, and shot a roll of film. I bracketed many shots so that I could figure out what my meter was doing.</p>

<p>Got to class, took all of that time to develop my film and guess what? All of my shots were horrible! My outdoor shots were all over exposed. The best shots were the indoor shots. But I noticed that each shot that I bracketed looked like the exact same exposure????....... and my indoor shots even when I was shooting for a wide depth of field looked shallow???? Upon examining my camera and lense, we discoved that my lense was not stopping down at all. I could manually stop it down enabling the "stop down metering" function. However when the time came to actually take a shot, my lense remained wide open reguarless of the f/stop I set it to....So I was alway shooting at f/1.4</p>

<p>MYSTERY SOLVED - HALLELUJIAH my mystery is solved! I have another lense (not as nice as the broken one) and my instructor gave me an extension. Too bad I have wasted about 3-4 rolls of film. But I am so glad that it was not me....(know what I mean)</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for your advise. Ben, I can forsee a handheld light meter in my future too.<br>

Nakia</p>

<p>Nakia-</p>

<p>Whoa! If you are able to control the lens aperture with the stop down lever, then I don't think the lens is the problem. Here is how you can test the camera:</p>

<p>Take the lens off and cock and fire the camera. Use a slow shutter speed like 1/2 second. While looking inside the lens mount, press the shutter button. The mirror will flip up, the shutter will open and, at the bottom, there is a little vertical arm that will slide over to the right (towards the film chamber). This is the aperture actuator. If, when you press the shutter, this lever does not slide over and expose a red dot, then the problem is with the camera, not the lens.</p>

<p>Try this first before loading another roll of film. Although increased use of film may encourage film companies to keep producing it, I am sure you don't want to support the film industry all by yourself by wasting money...</p>

<p>Steven,<br>

Thanks for the tip. I will check that out because the lense is very nice. I was bummed out about it being broken. <br>

I am not quite sure I understand what I should be looking for once I remove the lense... I will try on my own to look at it but I may just pay a visit to our local camera shop. <br>

As far as the film company - I just purchased four more rolls. This class is SOOO much more expensive than my digital one.....well maybe not, when you compare the price of the two camera's digital vs film.<br>

thanks again - I'll keep you posted.</p>