Minors and Shooting Sporting Events

<p>... but what would I know... I'm just a bush lawyer myself. :)</p>

<p>Aron:<br /><br />It's quite possible that somebody doesn't want images of his children online. I can think of a few scenarios. Doesn't really matter what the reason is, but that parent doesn't want his kid's photo online.<br /> <br />Seems like you have a few choices. Remove all the photos. Remove none of the photos. Remove just the objectionable photos.<br /> <br />Since this has escalated from one upset parent to the YMCA director, my guess is that you don't know which the objectionable photos are. In the future, I'd consider apologizing profusely to any upset parent,<br />and ask for the number on the jersey or any other way of identifying their kid so that you could remove any photo of that child before posting.<br /> <br />I haven't encountered your situation. I don't shoot photos of stranger's kids, though. I only show up to shoot when I've been commissioned to do so or when my own children are involved. In the<br />latter situation, I'm trying not to make their events into a commercial activity, so I provide free, unwatermarked photos online, along with a way for parents to easily order prints if they choose.<br /> <br />When I've been commissioned to shoot, I give the online link to the person or people who have commissioned me. They usually pass the link on to other interested people. I've never had unknown parents<br />approach me and tell me they didn't want me there. I'm hard to miss with a monopod and a 300/2.8 standing a few feet outside the sidelines, so it's not that I'm particularly stealthy. :) (I'm usually the only one doing this. I'm not blending into a pack of photographers, either.) I have had parents ask me whom I'm shooting.<br />I tell them either a specific child or a team, depending on the situation. Invariably, the response is a request to include their kid in some frames, along with asking how they can see the photos. Out comes a business card. :)<br /> <br /> I've had absolutely no problems with either approach shooting both on public and private property that is being rented by both public and private organizations.<br /> <br /> Before asserting your rights too much, I'd clarify if the church grounds are public or private.<br /> <br /> Eric</p>

<p>In the US church grounds are typically private, although they don't pay a penny of taxes. (not going to hijack this thread on that topic.) </p>

<p>As WW said the director now has a bee in his bonnet as it were and is showing the member or members he is on top of this. Who knows - the complainer may be a donor who gave a new pool or basketball court to the Y. Whatever the reason, it has escalated. </p>

<p>Lawyers may give you a free consult on this - but that is about all - unless you have one on retainer. This is not what you would call a money maker for them. There's not significant loss of revenue, nor chance of recovery. </p>

<p>Another thing I was thinking about is how big is the town you're in? If it is small town USA - you might be wise to drop it since you could be the one looking like a clod when all is said and done. If it a medium or larger city (with several Y's) then you may be able to raise a bit of a ruckus without causing yourself harm. (Beware though that word travels fast - I know there are sports related websites that some parents regularly post photographer reviews on) </p>

<p>I too am anxious to see what the lawyers have to say (if any respond). </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>(aside & blowing own trumpet) I was actually quite pleased with the creative "the bee in the bonnet" analogy. I trust it made a few other smiles.</p>

<p>For the past 3 years, I have been the team photographer for my son's baseball team. I photograph every scrimmage, game and a good number of the practices. <br>

Each year the head coach asks for a volunteer to be the team photographer and each year all the other parents immediately ask me to volunteer. And each year I ask every family to send me an email giving me permission to photograph their son and any family members that shows up at the games. If anyone asks me not to photograph them during a game, I don't. <br>

I am often asked to photograph other teams. As long as the coach gets written permission from all the parents, I am happy to oblige.<br>

You just can't be too careful when it comes to kids. A few minutes of CYA can save a photog a lot of grief. The only problems I have now are too many requests to photograph teams and too many requests from moms and dads to use Photoshop to make them look skinnier. <br>

To the OP: I suggest you comply with the YMCA's request. </p>

<p>Just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>I like that "bee in the bonnet" analogy because it is perfectly descriptive. That's what is happening. for whatever good reason the Y Director may have (and I'm not against it, BTW), he may be asserting demands he simply has no rights to assert. Even if the church grounds are private (which i'm sure they are), the grounds are not the Y's and he may not be able to assert full control over them even with a rental agreement.<br>

<br />All that said, I would respect the Y Driector's request to "refrain from taking photos of our activities and or participants in the future."</p>

<p>Aron -</p>

<p>Did you ask him specifically about future events when discussing with him? Or did he shut that door before you were even able to open it?</p>

<p>A couple of thoughts came last night - 1) They may require a background check for all people associated with the league / YMCA in any way, shape or form. I know that as a team / individual photographer - I'm asked by leagues all the time if I would mind them submitted a check on me and anyone that I have assisting. 2) Since you don't have a horse in the game (so to speak) some may be put off by the fact that an adult is going around with a camera photographing kids sporting events.</p>

<p>Just a couple of more thoughts to hang on to until a real lawyer contacts you.<br>

Dave</p>

 

<p>Oh... and I should have added... All that said, i would respect the request of any parent who personally requested that their child's photo be removed from even a password-protected web site (but maybe not a blanket request from a third-party like the Y Director).</p>

<p>I finally call from the VP of Risk Management after I sent them an email<br>

“In reference to our conversion on 5/22 can you please have your lawyer call me or you reference me any laws that I would break by posting the event photos online for the parents to purchase please. As I stated earlier I would remove any pictures that anyone did not want posted of their children who viewed the site and objected. Thank you for your cooperation”<br>

and she was like I cannot make you take the photos down but from our perspective is that we do not post pictures without parents consent. It was just her job to let the parents know that there was a photography going around taking pictures of their children and that they had nothing to do with that. She said for future reference to ask before I do such things like that at their events. She said I could go and pass out cards but only get the ones that the parents say it’s ok instead of just taking photos of everyone and then posting them. All is well now I just went ahead and took them down so as not to burn that bridge, just in case I wanted to work with them at a later date. She just wanted me to understand the YMCA position. And you do get more with honey than vinegar!<br>

So all is well. Again thank you Brain S, David Haas, Steve Hopkins, William W, and Eric Merrill for all your thoughts and research. Still received no lawyer call backs lol. Guess everyone was busy or didn’t think it was worth their time. Oh well.</p>

 

There are several sites by lawyers on photographers' rights. A concise one is http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf.

 

Here is an excerpt:

 

"Despite misconceptions to the contrary, the following subjects can almost always be photographed lawfully from public places:

 

accident and fire scenes, children, celebrities, bridges and other infrastructure, residential and commercial buildings, industrial facilities

and public utilities, transportation facilities (e.g., airports), criminal activities, law enforcement officers."

 

There are three kinds of places: private spaces, private spaces open to the public and public spaces. A photographer has no right to take

photos inside a private place without the owner's or occupant's permission. No permission is required to take pictures of events occurring

in a public place or observable from a public place, even if occurring in a private place. In a private space open to the public, you can take

photos without permission unless signs are posted that prohibits photography or until you are told to stop. In the latter case, you cannot

be compelled to delete or destroy photos taken before you were denied permission.

<p>Well good for you. It sounds like all is well. There position is totally reasonable, in my opinion, and shouldn't be difficult to live with. In general it is best to NOT have the lawyers involved!</p>