why extra charge for software

Last week I made what was to be my first move in shifting from Canon to Nikon, I bought a D3200. My first surprise, after

an initial four hours of use, was that Nikon does not provide, with the camera, software to even open the camera's own

RAW files. When I returned to the store, I was put on the phone to Nikon (and over 30 minutes on hold waiting to talk to

a person), where I was informed "no, they do not ship the correct version of NX with the camera, you have to download a

"trial" version from the website".....and then informed, that to "keep" the software I needed past a 60 day "trial" I would

have to pay an addition $245 cdn.

 

After a day of then testing the camera, I returned it for a refund. The images which turned out, were good, but frankly

there were a lot of exposure faileures and adjustments required all of which "may have been" something I could have

worked to arrange settings for, but I''ve never had to face anything like this in years of using Canon, and I was not going

to pay an additional $245 to be able to get into files which all needed correcting.

 

My question, in that I was seriously looking at a total jump from Canon to Nikon, is to all you dedicated Nikon users. Is

this a "normal state of affairs" with Nikon ? Being told "you can buy a camera for big money, and you can take pictures

with it, but you can't actually see 'em unless you pay us MORE". ?

<p>Nikon provides ViewNX2 which is free software for coverting and editing raw (NEF) files.</p>

<p>It is availble from their web site, The URL for the US web site is http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17800/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzQxNTExNzc4L3NpZC80QUFwcG8qaw%3D%3D<br /> It is the "Service and Support" section "Download Center"</p>

<p>The Canadian URL is http://help.nikon.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/13499</p>

<p>So no, it is not the "normal state of affairs"</p>

<p>And as far as I know they provide a CD with the software with the camera.</p>

<p>NikonViewNX is free from Nikon and allows for all the 'basic' adjustments to RAW that you would want.</p>

<p>I have no experience with the D3200 but chances are your exposure 'failures' may have been due to the settings you were using and/or lack of experience with the camera. It always takes me many weeks to get used to a new body..</p>

<p>I'm glad I don't have to pay for software, I don't use, a lot of people use LR or PS, becuase they prefer it. I wished they did the same with lenspouches.<br>

And as, laready, mentioned ViewNX2 has a good basic RAW converter.</p>

<p><em>"</em><em>good basic RAW converter"</em> - they are just that - they are good. If you want better, you may have to do a bit of shopping and pay a little extra. There are many advanced programs available that do a better and in most cases a much better job and have a much better user interface than readily available free software programs, and some of them are not all that expensive (under $100).</p>

<p>One of my pet peeves about Nikon is they don't provide a full featured version of Capture with their pro series dSLRs. Other folks disagree and say it wouldn't be cost effective, etc.</p>

<p>I've used the trial versions of Capture and wasn't impressed enough to buy it. I'd recommend Adobe Lightroom 4 instead. Besides having an excellent workflow and noise reduction adjustments it'll work with almost any camera brand's raw files.</p>

<p>I feel compelled to point out that getting dependent on Nikon's software might not be wise anyway. They don't support their Coolscan V scanners these days and if it weren't for Vuescan I wouldn't be able to use my scanner at all. I think it would be better to ignore their software and use Aperture or Lightroom (or adobe Bridge) anyway.</p>

Lorne and Elliot: Thanks for your info, glad to hear in the US it may be different. I purchased the D3200

from a reputable dealer here whom I have purchased five cameras from over the years. On the drive back

to my place, an hour north of the city the store is in, I ran a series of photos. On arrival at my own place

I loaded the NX2 disc which came in the box. It would not open the RAW files from the camera: it gave

me an error message saying something like "wrong kind of files". The next morning I drove the 40 miles

back to the store, whose staff are supremely professional. They did not know the answer, so they

phoned directly to Nikon Canada...I waited for almost a half hour to get to finally speak to a

person.....the person, a Nikon Techy, told me flat out: "we (Nikon) do not ship the correct version of NX2

with that camera to open its RAW files....you go to this website to download them...and you will get a

60 day TRIAL version of the software, which, if you intend to keep and use beyond 60 days, you will be

required to PAY for....two-hundred and forty-five dollars Cdn." I am not making this up....this is the

exact advice I was given, on the phone, by Nikon Canada.

 

Re my exposure failures and "learning a new body". I've been through that same discussion with my

next door neighbour, who owns many Nikons and who was the "push" to get me to go in that direction.

When I aim a camera...as I did with this D3200...at one spot....and take four photos, 30 seconds

apart...and each of them has a different exposure....??? Then I assure you, the camera has a problem.

 

On the exposures which worked, it was superb.....that 24 meg sensor combined with Nikon 70-300 VR

gave me a "couple" of really great images..........but the failure rate was unreal. I've been using Canon

40D's for years....and not speaking of "compositional errors", which are purely my own fault, I am used

to my equipment giving me accuracy 90 percent-plus of the time. This D3200 was really poor. I would

have, despite that, "worked with it" in getting adjustments made to where I wanted them....but to be told

by Nikon I was not only going to have to do that "learning fight" with the equipment, but also then pay an

additional $245 to view the raws, was unacceptable. And this was a HUGE disappointment to me,

because from what I saw with the lens I purchased (which my neighbour just bought from me), I will say

that Nikon gives much much better value for the money in lens purchases than Canon does.

 

Nikon Canada: told me directly, flat out, on the phone: two hundred and forty five bucks for NX2 after 60

day trial.

<p>Robert, go to the Link Lorne posted, it is to Nikon Canada's web site. "View NX2" and "Capture NX2" are two different software packages, only Capture NX2 requires payment after 60 days.</p>

<p>This http://help.nikon.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/13499#Anchor-1 link is the info on the different packages, it saves you a click. :)</p>

 

<p><em>"</em><em>and each of them has a different exposure."</em> Did you consider trying another body to see if this 'abnormal' behavior persisted? It is obviously not normal. And while it is possible the camera had a problem, there are at least a couple of explanations that could have caused this to happen. Just curious, what were the different exposures? Is it possible exposure bracketing was turned on? Or perhaps you were spot metering and did not meter at the exact same spot for each shot.<br>

<br>

NX2 is not a free program, but as previously mentioned ViewNX2 is.<br>

</p>

<p> </p>

<p>cant expect to switch from canon to nikon and in 4 hours and get everything down 100%<br>

though they are similar , each feature works in its own way.</p>

<p>As far was software goes their is free version of ViewNX to work with the raw files. and yes shame on Nikon for not shipping and updated RAW converter for the D3200. With that said if you serious about working with RAW files , I recommend investing in Lightroom 4 or DxO or Aperture.</p>

I truly appreciate everyone's input, especially the knowledge that there is a "viewnx" vs a "capturenx" etc, which

Nikon somehow overlooked mentioning. As far as "if I intend to get serious about working with RAW files", no offense,

but I've been shooting in RAW from Canon for over 5 years. All I really use the initial download (through Canon's

Digital Photo Professional software) for is to gain any increase in color-depth if needed. Then I have both Adobe

Elements, and CS5 in which I do any really serious work beyond that. My normal first step in fact is to move files into

a Vector-based file structure before beginning any re-sampling and major re-working, as Vector files maintain true

integrity of shapes and forms while working. Once I've accomplished what I want to in that regard, I then save as TIFF

files for my own reference use, and then, because of the size and file limitations imposed by photonet, I have to then

develop really small jpegs for uploading to photonet and my Imagepro website.

 

Anyway, I truly appreciated the info re there being an "NXview" vs "Capture". Won't matter to me now, in that I've

already sold the lens I specifically purchased for the 32, and returned the 32 itself (and have ordered a T3i as the

additional camera i need, and will stick with Canon)....but....my neighbor who bought the lens is a dedicated Nikon-er,

and it's useful info for him. And I truly do mean what I said about the lenses....dollar for dollar, I really discovered

Nikon gives you about "double" the value vs canon...ie the Nikon lens I paid six hundred for (including tax), I have to

pay double that to buy an equivalent Canon.

<p>Your exposure concerns sounds to me like a metering issue. Are you shooting in full manual mode or a auto program mode? Are using the exposure metering set to Matrix, Center or Spot? Matrix will give you more variance in exposure depending on shade or sunlight. In 30sec the sun is moving a long distance and can be creating darker shadows or brighter highlights depending on direction.<br>

Your software concerns look like they have been answered by a few people. Just be aware that there is 2 versions of "NX2" View and Capture, View is free and Capture is about $245. For basic RAW edits and transfers View is just fine. Lightroom and Capture are comparable with the advantage going to Lightroom with more bells and whistles.<br>

The best suggestion I can give is spend sometime with your user manual and learn your camera backward and frontward and you will be glad you decided to go with Nikon.</p>

<p>Every camera ought to come with a fairly full software suite. Nikon doesn't, Canon does.<br /> Every lens ought to come with a custom lens hood. Canon doesn't except for L lenses, and Nikon does.</p>

<p>As for relative prices of lenses, some say the Canons are cheaper, some say Nikon. Depends on the lens and how recently it has been updated.</p>

<p>The good news is that both Nikon and Canon have some really quite nice older, prime designs that are very affordable - a 50mm f/1.8 is a pretty good deal for either brand.</p>

<p>In this case, you "makes yer choice and then you pays yer money".</p>

<p>BTW, I think many people don't use the manufacturer's software regardless of its cost.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Robert: I regularly use a D300, and know it inside and out. I can just about guarantee how it will behave, metering-wise. I know just what sort of wiggle-room is in those NEF files. <br /><br />For some (mostly, video-related) unexpected reasons and for expediency's sake, I picked up a D3200 the other day. It's a nice little body to have in a small bag, can serve as backup for all sorts of scenarios, and - if you're willing to work within its form factor and specific limitations - can produce some really stellar video and outstanding, gigantic stills. I am very comfortable with Nikon's products (and use their software)... but I am having to re-train myself around the D3200's ideas on highlights and shadows. It's a little vexing in some circumstances, but I'm getting to know it.<br /><br />When I'm not taking complete control over exposure (which is to say, I'm leaving the D3200 somewhat to its own devices by shooting in my usual aperture priority mode, or I've got it fancy P&S mode for grab-and-shoot), it tends to be a little to cavalier with the highlights if you ask me. But then, it's almost always still there in the NEF files. And it's pretty clear when - looking at a scene - I'm seeing a situation that calls for compensating by a third of a stop or two as I shoot. You'll get the hang of it.<br /><br /></p>

<p>Robert: after reading your thread here this afternoon, I downloaded the free ViewNX from the Nikon USA site, shot some raw frames with my D5000 and processed them with it. The results were very nice and easy. Sorry you weren't happy with the camera. I've read really good things about the D3200. Good luck in your quest.</p>

<p>"...will stick with Canon" This result is typical of many that try to switch without doing their homework and without taking the time to learn the new body.</p>

<p><em>"</em><em>cant expect to switch from canon to nikon and in 4 hours and get everything down 100%"</em> Good point!!<br>

<br>

The bottom line is that in the end, your pictures won't look any different with a Canon or Nikon body. I have used both side-by-side and the results are pretty much the same. The best camera is the one that has specific features you need/want and feels most comfortable in your hands. And for you, that sounds like Canon. Enjoy your new body!</p>

<p>I just bought the D3200 a couple of weeks ago myself. I have not had time to do much shooting because of new summer school courses at another college, but the metering has been pretty good so far, in my opinion. There is still a lot that I don't know in order to get the very best from the camera, but for less than $700 it a surprisingly good little camera. The resolution is quite incredible. I have not yet done any low light shooting, and so I will hold off commenting on how it does at higher ISOs. The metering is not perfect, but it seems to be on a par with what Canon provides in the same price range.</p>

<p>I was a bit put off by not having a Raw converter with the software, but, until I get that issue resolved, I am getting pretty good results with JPEGs. In that sense it is a fun camera to use--just walking around and shooting JPEGs at this point! With such massive files, I can simply downsample and still come away with good results. I am sure that, when I can do Raw conversions with it, I will like it even better.</p>

<p>I also am a Canon user, for what that's worth, but I am making an incremental transition to Nikon, as finances allow. Since I get none of my income from my photography, perhaps I can be a bit more desultory about getting these problems resolved than some. At this point, I have no particular reason to think that I am making the wrong move by going in the Nikon direction. The image quality is superb, and that is the bottom line for me. The D3200 is a very small camera, however, and so I am eagerly awaiting a battery grip from China so that I do not have to hold the camera with two fingers when I press the shutter button. The battery capacity is also not outstanding, which is yet another reason to have the battery grip and another charger so that I can go out with two charged batteries.</p>

<p>Overall, my first impressions leave me with this conclusion, since I own the D90 but no full-frame Nikons to replace the Canon full-frame cameras that I have already sold: dollar for dollar, I am pretty sure that I am getting better image quality from Nikon, but I would hate to have to prove that with hard data. It is simply my overall impression at this point, and so nothing at this point is telling me that I made a mistake. Yes, I miss my 5D II, not to mention my 1Ds II before that (and the original 5D before that!), but I have hopes over time that I can get myself a good full-frame Nikon. In the meantime, I am just enjoying myself. </p>

<p>This camera is definitely worth the few hundreds of dollars that it costs. I am really quite astonished at what it can do at such a low price. The issue with Raws? Well, if I stay with Nikon, I cannot see that as being a deal breaker. I will get that resolved one way or another. I never expected this camera to replace my full-frame cameras, but it will do for now.</p>

<p>And did I mention. . . ? This camera is just a lot of FUN! </p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>Lannie: just to be extra clear ... you can download View NX2 for free (permanently free) from Nikon, and use it to handle the RAW/NEF files from the D3200. It's not a huge download, and it just works. It certainly gives you a chance to take advantage of the latitude in the RAW files before rendering them to JPGs. It's not as fancy as Capture NX2, but it will certainly allow you to batch those RAWs out to JPGs, and will let you do some elementary editing. If nothing else, just being able to adjust some exposure compensation and change the white balance while still working with the full dynamic range and color depth of the NEF file is huge. Did I mention it was free? Download it! </p>

<p>Tethering via Nikon's own Camera Control Pro 2 (CCP2) is going to cost you about £120 here in the UK, Canon provide their software for free....! </p>

<p>Nikon's CCP2 is pretty poor as-well..... no live-view and a small, un-adjustable view window size. ControlMyNikon is much better and about £15....</p>

Lesson to be learned: Never listen to neighbor's advice, regardless of product.

<blockquote>

<p>Lannie: just to be extra clear ... you can download View NX2 for free (permanently free) from Nikon, and use it to handle the RAW/NEF files from the D3200. It's not a huge download, and it just works. It certainly gives you a chance to take advantage of the latitude in the RAW files before rendering them to JPGs.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks, Matt. That's good to know.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>GOT IT, MATT! (And thanks to Lorne and Elliot as well.)</p>

<p><strong>Robert</strong>, <strong>I just converted some Raws to big JPEGS (could have done TIFFs) in seconds. </strong><br /> <br /> SO <strong>THE D3200 DOES HAVE RAW CONVERSION</strong>--BUT YOU HAVE TO DOWNLOAD "View NX2." Just Google that and you can get some <strong>FREE</strong> Nikon software that allows you to do your Raw conversions with this little camera!</p>

<p>It's very easy to navigate with this free software (View NX2). I have never used it before and I just converted some Raw files in seconds . I understand that Nikon has better software that you have to pay for, but THIS AIN'T BAD!</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

<p>I'm glad, Lannie, that your experience is in keeping with mine. View NX2 is a modest little program, but I actually use it as a "front end" for Capture NX2, to sort, score, and otherwise navigate folders of images. People who shoot at a faster pace use Lightroom for such stuff, and now that Lightroom is cheaper, that's pretty compelling. But I can run View NX2 on half a dozen different computers with no licensing costs, and that has a certain appeal.<br /><br />Be sure, if you haven't played with it, to use View's ability to push exposure up/down, and adjust white balance while you're still in RAW mode. There is <em>so</em> much more information in that NEF file, and you won't be torturing pixels, like you would while trying to tweek WB on a JPG.<br /><br />I will also encourage you, just for fun, to try the free trial of Capture NX2. Make sure you've got some learning curve time set aside to make the most of the free test run - you may find that it's your new favorite editor. The "control point" user interface, all by itself, is worth the price of admission, if you ask me.</p>

<p>Um, Robert, after all that I looked back in the box, and guess what I found?</p>

<p><strong>1 CD with View NX2 software</strong></p>

<p>in the box, with the camera.</p>

<p>I'm happy to find out about the free downloads, though, just in case.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>