Eye level , non folding 120 camera

<p>I am familiar with the high end 120 rangefinder cameras<br>

and of course the less than real Toy holgas and dianas,<br>

But are there any cameras in between, I know about the<br>

Medalist and the Chavron ( didn't buy one for $15.00)<br>

But are there any others? Something better than a box camera with a faster lens and some adjustments.</p>

 

Good question, Walter- there seems to be a no-man's land between Holga/Dianas and the Fuji GF670 at almost $1,700:

 

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/678957-REG/Fujifilm_16019089_GF670_Rangefinder_Folding_Camera.html

<p>Are you talking new or used, Walter? The Koni-Omega comes to mind as a rangefinder, and you can probably find one for $200 or so, but they are getting pretty scarce. There are a bunch of TLR and SLR medium format cameras, though.</p>

Well, if we're talking used, a few years ago I bought an Agfa Super Isolette from the superb rehaber Jurgen Kreckel for

$500. It was in great shape and I would buy from him again:

 

 

http://www.certo6.com/

<p>yes you COULD buy a hassleblad or a rb645<br>

or other very expensive camera.<br>

it is unlikely anyone makes such a MF camera today.<br>

SO it would have to be used. the Holgas are TOY cameras.<br>

and the few I spotted on ebay are basically box cameras but resemble<br>

a simple 35mm camera. the only ones made in quantity were the 6 x 6 folders.<br>

No I did not mean a slr or tlr .<br>

Possibly something closer to a kodak pony or signet but using 120/620 film.</p>

 

A Holga isn't toy if you know the camera's limitations:

 

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/14284611

<p>I believe Eric is correct. The eye-level, non-folding 120 format camera always had a huge gap between the very expensive and the very cheap. Certainly I have not found anything in Ivor Matanle's book that would fill the gap. Perhaps no other manufacturer was willing to enter the market at the price point of the Yashicamat TLR?</p>

<p>"Possibly something closer to a kodak pony or signet but using 120/620 film." Long before the digital onslaught I diligently searched the reference books - and camera stores - for such a camera. Gave up and acquired a twin lens rollei with a Planar. Following up on my previous comment - perhaps there was no way to compete at a price point with the glut of used folders such as the Nettar?</p>

<p>Ok, looks like it is up to me to answer this one.</p>

<p>There is the Braun Gloria, 6x6 with 75/2.9 Praxar or Praxanar in Prontor svs (1-300) or Pronto (25-200) shutter. Uncoupled rangefinder. The lens/shutter pulls in/out like the Elmar lens on a Leica.</p>

<p>Then you have the Durst 66 with 80/2.2 Color Duplor in unmarked shutter (B and 1/2 - 200). Extinction meter built in. Comes in gray hammertone with various color leather covering.</p>

<p>Then there is a Nordina (models 1 to 3) from Vredeborch. Model 1 has 75/4.5 in Vario shutter. Model 2 has 75/3.5 in Vario. Model 3 has 75/2.9 in Pronto (25 - 200).</p>

 

<p>I had a ciroflex and still have a Rihoflex with the "wig wag" focusing..<br>

I never really liked them<br>

I looked at a rolkie with the zeiss planer lens in 1962, it was $130.00.<br>

Later I wondered how he got a camera into ITT Defense electronics.<br>

They had armed guards. But since it cost over one weeks pay., I passed on it.</p>

<p>I don't know whether MF prices have bottomed out and started to rise again. I have Bronica 645, 6X6 and 6X7 cameras. Most were purchased over the last 5-6 years at very reasonable prices. On Friday I shot a roll of 120 color print film with a GS-1 and a 65/4 lens. I only got seven good frames because I was swatting bees and accidentally tripped the shutter three times. An ETR or ETRS would still be the least expensive with the SQ-A a close second. Lenses in the 50-150 range do not cost very much. </p>

<p>Another vote for the Koni Omega, had excellent results with it - and I found it handles far better than the size and awkward appearance would suggest. The lenses are excellent and the rangefinder, if in good shape, is bright and snappy. Plus the film advance is just cool, which is awesome and awesomeness is a deciding factor for any serious photographer;) Of course if you get too happy with it pretending its a sawed off 870 you'll make an accordion out of your film but hey, the price of cool was never cheap;)</p>

<p>Really lots of options if you're willing to use accessory viewfinders. I've used all the following over the years, although I usually prefer to use the waist-level finder when I'm shooting 120 film. </p>

<p>(i) Late model Rolleiflex or late model Rolleicord with the prism finder. This combination can be expensive, but you can get a decent setup by waiting for bargains.</p>

<p>(ii) Mamiya TLR with the prism finder. (The <em>prism</em> finder; most people say to avoid the porroflex finder.)</p>

<p>(iiii) Mamiya RB/RZ with one of the eye-level prism finders.</p>

<p>(iv) '23 Graphic' medium format Speed, Crown or Century Graphics. They're all rangefinders, with a separate rather squinty optical viewfinder-- and a wire frame sportsfinder, which I prefer myself. </p>

<p>How about the Kiev 60 or the Norita 66? Both are 6x6 SLRs. I have used the Kiev 60, and its not bad.</p>

<p>A year ago I picked up a much-used Kiev 60 and have come to like it very much, even though its film counter is broken and film spacing is so wide only ten 6x6cm frames end up on a 120 roll. Well worth the $65 I paid for it. No light leaks or film scratch issues, unlike most of my other Russian cameras. Its 80mm lens is sharp, the front-placed shutter release is in the right place for me, and the eye-level prism is fairly bright. Flash synch is only 1/30th, BUT if you set it to too high of a speed, the flash is locked out, so while you may waste a frame, you have a reminder to set it to the correct speed. My Leica M2 and several 35mm focal-plane reflexes don't have that feature. While its mirror does not auto-return after exposure, the darkend viewfinder is quick reminder to wind the film & reset the mirror. But if you want near-perfection? ...well, don't buy a Russian camera; they ALL have quirks.</p>

<p>I think the best bet would be a Mamiya 7. This is a non-folding interchangeable lens rangefinder taking 6x7 on 120. The current body only second hand priceon ebay UK is about 400GBP and lenses are not cheap but they too can be picked up for a few hundred. I like the handling of the Mamiya 7. The spot metering works well and results can be astonishingly good. But this is probably at the top end of your range.</p>

<p>Otherwise a golden oldie such as the Corfield 66, Exacta 66, a focusing Voigtlander Brilliant, ZI Ikoflex, Rolleiflex / cord, Minolta ditto etc. Pentax 67, KW Reflex Korelle, KW Pilot, Agiflex...</p>

<p>If you allowed folding 120 cameras there are more than you can shake a stick at.</p>

<i>"A year ago I picked up a much-used Kiev 60 and [...] ...well, don't buy a Russian camera; they ALL have quirks."</i><br><br>This needs repeating every once in a while: Kiev is not in Russia. Kiev cameras are not Russian.<br>Now over to the Agfa Clack vs Mamiya 6 thread again.

<p>"Something better than a box camera with a faster lens and some adjustments"</p>

<p>Does it really have to be non-folding Walter? That requirement sure cuts out a lot of worthy cameras.<br>

How much faster a lens? What do you define as "some adjustments"? Specific desired features and minimum specifications would be helpful here.<br>

Just last year I bought, for $25, a neat little Zeiss Nettar. It is a self erecting, 120 folder with a 3 element f6.3 Novar lens, scale focusing to 3.5 feet and a 3 speed shutter of 1/25-1/75-1/200 plus B. There is a regular PC socket for flash and a little sliding cover for the red window.</p>

<p>Six by six in a jacket pocket.</p>

<p>There are other, more expensive Zeiss 6X6 folders with f4.5 Novars or even f3.5 Tessars with wider range shutters available. they would be more expensive of course. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Walter I immediately thought the Fuji GS645s. 60mm F4 lens (sharp too.) Check it out. Can be had for about $450 in Excellent condition.</p>

<p>Don't forget the Bilora 66 that shot 120 film. Cheap and basic. I thought Lumiere did a small 120 film camera. I cannot remember the name. I have the Lumiflex TLR but it is not really very much of a camera.</p>

<p>CHEERS...Mathew</p>

<p>Pentakon six.</p>

<p>Yes I guess a folder is a more prectical option.<br>

as the Japanese 120 rf are way out of my range.<br>

yes lens/adjustments f/4.5 and up ro 1/300.<br>

a faster shutter would making iso400 film simpler.<br>

I did not expect a RF. and I can live with numbers in a red window.<br>

thanks for the suggestions, however too many talk about high priced cameras.<br>

and amazingly someone knew of some models.<br>

but likely the collectors are keeping them on a shelf.</p>

<p>Yes I guess a folder is a more practical option.<br>

as the Japanese 120 rf are way out of my range.<br>

yes lens/adjustments f/4.5 and up ro 1/300.<br>

a faster shutter would making iso400 film simpler.<br>

I did not expect a RF. and I can live with numbers in a red window.<br>

thanks for the suggestions, however too many talk about high priced cameras.<br>

and amazingly someone knew of some models.<br>

but likely the collectors are keeping them on a shelf.</p>

<p>My own experience with a Rapid Omega (one of many variants of the generic Koni-Omega line) is summarized at http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00YatJ . I very much recommend it as an often affordable 120 format camera (if you are patient on eBay). Don't overlook the large number of excellent 120 film folding cameras as well. Some of them produce excellent results and were the cameras that filled the market "gap" discussed above between premium ($$$) cameras and box cameras.</p>

<p>Another vote for the Fuji GS645 S. Has a coupled rangefinder and match diode exposure. Or if you would consider a folder, there is the Fuji GS 645 folder with a 75 mm f3.4 lens. Both are 6 x 4.5 cm formate. I've had the GS 645S for a few years and really like it.</p>