How to get nice B&W output from my Leica?

<p>Hi All-<br>

I'm one who believes that the is a specialness to B&W work done with Leica cameras and lenses that nothing else can quite match. Somewhere in the interplay of the big, bright viewfinder, lag-free shutter, and magic lenses, magic is born. I understand that this is just an opinion, but it is one shared by many Leica shooters, and it is they to whom this question is addressed.<br>

I woke up this morning and decided to get my M6TTL out of the closet for the first time in about five years. I knew exactly what I wanted to do: go down to the nearest Walgreens and buy some Ilford XP2 or Kodak T400CN, and take some candids at a party I'm attending tonight. Then I'd have the roll processed on a digital minilab and scanned, leaving a choice between sending any keepers out for traditional optical printing, or producing inkjet B&W prints.<br>

My first stop was Walgreens. Color neg film only. Same result at Meijer and Walmart. Two local camera stores had only traditional B&W emulsions, in limited varieties. I ended up with a roll of "Vivitar 100" which is apparently a B&W film produced in China.<br>

I do have a roll of T400CN which is surely several years out of date.<br>

Should I just shoot color, scan, and desaturate? I imagine that some of the tonal qualities of B&W film can be imparted electronically. I'm just fearful that the final product will be very un-Leicalike. If I shoot the traditional B&W emulsion, and send it out for processing and scanning, will the scans be usable? My understanding is that the C41 films produce much better scans.<br>

The broader question is what the heck to I do with a Leica and four lenses when I can't get my hands on film, and can't afford an M9? For those of you in the same boat, what are you doing to make best use of your equipment these days?</p>

<p>John, if I couldn't find XP-2 Super, I'd shoot color and convert to B&W in Photoshop, which provides much better B&W conversion in its current itteration than it did four or so versions ago when I started working with the program. For Holga shooting, I've been using Fuji's NPZ 800, scanning in color and converting in Pshop:</p>

<p><a href="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/14284611-md.jpg">http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/14284611-md.jpg</a></p>

<p>won't help you tonight, but B&H, Adorama among other have the B&W film you're looking for in quantity. I'm currently working thru a hundred foot roll of HP-5. Likewise they have D-76, fixer, the work. B&W is accessible, reasonable, fun, and hugely satisfying. Good luck. </p>

<p>won't help you tonight, but B&H, Adorama among other have the B&W film you're looking for in quantity. I'm currently working thru a hundred foot roll of HP-5. Likewise they have D-76, fixer, the work. B&W is accessible, reasonable, fun, and hugely satisfying. Good luck. </p>

<p>Several mail order houses have plenty of B&W film, as well as bulk film & supplies, and the big auction house often has lots as well. It's just the local drugstores and big name retailers quit selling it (because it wasn't selling in sufficient quantities). Color film isn't too far behind....so stock up on what you like, put it in the fridge or freezer, and enjoy.</p>

You can still get black and white film. I have mine processed at a professional lab that uses my preferred developer and does high quality work. <p>

 

Here are the key factors to good black and white, and in general, good technical quality in general:<p>

 

1) Good lighting in the scene.<p>

2) Accurate exposure.<p>

3) High quality film processing.<p>

4) High quality scanner.<p>

5) Skillful use of tools in Photoshop or other editing program, particularly for fine tuning contrast.

<p>I use a lot of XP2, but lately I've been using Portra even when I know my objective is a black and white print. The big plus is it allows me to apply filtration after the fact. The downside is I don't have a regular negative to print optically, but I don't use the enlarger much anymore anyway. </p>

<p>Like Eric says, don't just desaturate; use the 'separations' utility in Photoshop, or whatever image editor you use. </p>

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<p>if I couldn't find XP-2 Super, I'd shoot color and convert to B&W in Photoshop,</p>

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<p>XP-2 is a fine C-41 film, but slower speed C/N (to minimize grain if that is what you want) actually gives you more options because of the improved B&W conversion tools in newer versions of Photoshop.</p>

 

JDM, it depends on what you're going for. I think XP-2 shot at E.I. 200 produces excellent tonality and scans beautifully-

it has a particular look with creamy skin tones. For shooting at ISO 400 or 800, I'd go with color film- NPH or NPZ.

<p>I really like Kodak Professional 400CN. <br />... and got much better results desaturating color scans than real B&W film processed by a "Pro" lab... Looks like there is better accuracy (read: Less grain) while processing color negatives... just my experience...</p>

I am only interested in working in B&W. A process that works very well for me is to shoot Velvia slide film, scan selected frames myself, then manipulate them in Lightroom with third party B&W software tools to achieve the result I want. I have experimented with color print film but have found that slide film has substantially greater resolution. In addition, color print film is very difficult to color correct. So far I am very happy with the process and the overall results.

<p>Very surprised that nobody has mentioned this....but film is not going away any time soon.</p>

<p>Furthermore, decent darkroom gear can be had for peanuts or even less.</p>

<p>Want to be totally blown away by just what a film Leica is capable of? Have a bathroom with a combination light-vent fan? Good! Now look around and acquire a darkroom setup for next to no cost, tape some 6 mil black plastic over the bathroom windows, replace the light bulb in the vent fan light assembly with a safe light bulb, tape or glue some black felt around the door jambs, and prepare yourself for the most wonderful experience...from which you will never look back!</p>

<p>Again...I am so very surprised...and somewhat disappointed...that nobody else has mentioned what is still the very best way to realize the very highest potential, in terms of black and white, from a film Leica. And in my opinion...a film Leica very rightly deserves no less!</p>

<p>If I have time i still prefer to process and print B&W film the wet way. There is a quality i have not managed to get from scans. Interestingly I find my Epson printer is quite good at getting B&W output right (with the right paper). The Epson is not quite up to a wet print but is very good. I find that scanning (I use a nikon 5000 and 9000) is where I never get the same results as the wet process.<br>

When I am in a rush I will shoot a C41 (colour process B&W film) as almost all labs in western canada cannot process B&W. Fuji Neopan and Ilford XP-2 both work well. I have not used the Kodak BW400 but I am sure it is fine.</p>

<p>John makes a valid point. Go to a camera store rather than those large stores you mentioned and you should find one or more brands of B&W films and in types of different ISO ratings. I mentioned this in another forum, the fact that there are now more different brands of B&W film available today than there was in 1990, before the main thrust of the digital revolution (an article in a very recent number of "Photo Techniques"). The quantities may be less and the films a bit more expensive, but they are definitely out there.</p>

<p>Even if you don't go to enlarging and printing your B&W photos and just scan the negatives, developing those negatives is a very very simple process. All you need is somewhere (even a closed closet in a non-lit room at night - you have to check it by staying in the space for several minutes - if you don't see any light entering by cracks you are OK to use it) where you can dark load the film on a reel (takes only a minute or two), place in the plastic developing tank, close and turn on the lights. Then, at your leisure, a bathroom suffices to develop, stop and fix the film, pouring out chemicals back into their bottles for re-use (stop bath and fixer), or into another bottle for reject (used developer). Washing can then be done with the tank open and with 6 or 8 successive fillings and dumpings following 5 minute of standing at each filling. Remove surface water from the removed film by lightly running the film betwen your fingers, hang and let dry and then cut to small lengths and place in polythene sheets for storage away from dust. There are some variations to this (Ex: use of a wetting agent to ease water removal before drying, etc.) but the whole process is simple and if you have an extended height tank you can develop more than one similar film at the same time. The Paterson company is one makes these materials.</p>

<p>This you will find is a small price to pay in terms of effort and a satisfying and simple craft activity, especially if you have a fine Leica with several great lenses. B&W film should be around for a long time. If that doesn't appeal to you, your camera store will probably have the C-41 type B&W film and development option, but more film options are available if you do your own developing.</p>

<p>+1 <br />I just developed my second roll of film yesterday and it came out great! I scanned it on an old Nikon Coolscan IV and the results are better than my high-end photo lab.<br />The whole setup-- thermometers, tanks, reels, clips, darkbag, cups, and chemicals-- ran me about $130. Considering that B&W dev at a lab costs $7 jist for processing, home dev seems like a bargain if you are going to be shooting a lot.<br /><br />I've only done two rolls but I can tell you that it can be as easy or difficult/technical as you want it to be. I opted for the easy path using data published on the Massive Dev Chart at http://www.digitaltruth.com/<br /><br /><br /></p>

<p>I tested my M6 against an M8 and an M9 and was very disappointed in with the film result. The closest I can get to the digital Leicas is with sheet film, and even then, scanned 4x5 Tmax doesn't quite make it (8x10 does make it).<br>

I would suggest selling an couple of lenses and getting a used M8.<br>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/cjbroadbent/FilmTest?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLGD4uG_mPnQdw&feat=directlink">Here's the M6 test.</a><br>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/cjbroadbent/Formats?authuser=0&feat=directlink">Here's a load of M8 and 9 tests against B&W sheet film.</a></p>

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<p>I tested my M6 against an M8 and an M9 and was very disappointed in with the film result.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Here we go!</p>

<p>The scanning process is the weak link here. Again, for a true comparison, you need to process film in a wet darkroom, and make a print in a wet darkroom also. Do the best job possible or have a truly experienced practitioner do this. Then do your best with a digital file from the digital camera, ultimately creating an inkjet from this. Use a relatively low ISO (100-400) - then see what's what.</p>

<p>I'm 100% with John Layton, especially his first post in this thread. Buy some B/W film, pick up a Paterson tank and other basic kit on eBay for a few £ or $, buy a changing bag and some chemicals, and borrow the kitchen sink for an hour.<br>

This photo on Leica M6, Summicron 50 at f/2, 1/30 sec, Ilford HP5+ in Thornton 2-bath developer at kitchen sink, no sharpening after scanning. <img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/15510252-lg.jpg" alt="" width="574" height="840" /></p>

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<p>The scanning process is the weak link here.</p>

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<p>It certainly is. Judging the output of a film Leica with scanned film is like judging the performance of a Ferrari fitted with bicycle wheels.</p>