US retailer stops shipping Canon to Canada

<p>I found this on PhotoPrice.ca's Facebook wall and it's also in <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/photoprice/status/187243870290059266">Twitter</a>:<br /><br />PhotoPrice.ca says:<br />Today, one US store (J&R) stopped shipping Canon products to Canada, citing "manufacturer restrictions". Is this a sign of more unfortunate things to come?<br>

Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

<p>Uh, you are the one who works for B&H, one of the largest camera retailers in the US. Shouldn't we be asking YOU (or your boss) if you've gotten any info from Nikon?</p>

<p>@Walt: What "info from Nikon" that's relevant to this topic are you seeking?<br>

Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

 

<p>I assumed that Canon USA was "asking" US vendors not to advertise in Canada, just as they "ask" US retailers not to advertise prices below a floor set by Canon. Maybe they're also "asking" US vendors not to ship to Canada, though that seem a bit unlikely.</p>

<p>Too many assumptions? Henry, you'd know about such requests from Canon I'm sure. Have they told you not to ship to Canada? Not to advertise in Canada? I can't see why they'd just pick on J&R and leave B&H alone!</p>

<p>I can see Canon USA point in asking US vendors not to directly advertise in Canada, presumably on the request of Canon Canada.</p>

<p>I knew PhotoPrice.ca had been complaining that they had lost affiliate status with "a big US vendor" for this reason. I assumed that "big vendor" was B&H, but it seems like maybe it was J&R. See <a href="../casual-conversations-forum/00aBOx">http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00aBOx</a></p>

 

<p>Henry, I am by no means intending to be offensive, but like Walt, I think you are in a far better position to know what's going on than the average Canon user - or at least that's what the average Canon user would assume! Have you - meaning B&H, not you personally - ever been approached by Canon or another manufacturer trying to stop you from shipping to Canada? If the manufacturers went that way, they'd probably be knocking on your door first, since you are one of the largest, if not the largest, retailer of photo supplies in the US. If you have never heard anything about that, I'd hazard a guess that J&R has other reasons for not shipping to Canada, and people misinterpreted their actions. Facebook walls Twitter accounts are not my preferred sources for reliable information.</p>

<p>I went to J & R's site, and started to check out a Canon camera. It didn't block my transaction, from a Canadian internet address, or say anything about not shipping to Canada. It had this little blurb at the bottom of the page: <br /><br /><em> At this time, we ship to the U.S., U.S. Territories, Puerto Rico, Canada, and APO/FPO only (your Billing address can be elsewhere). Click here for details.</em></p>

<p>So if they're not shipping to Canada, they're not making it very explicit up front, but I may be missing something.</p>

<p>Isn't photoprice.ca that hobby website that had some dubious information a couple of weeks ago, about Canon blocking them from listing U.S. retailers?<br /><br /> <br /><br /></p>

<p>It's 5:45pm in NYC. I may know more in the morning. Right now what I know is what I posted.</p>

<p><em>Isn't photoprice.ca that hobby website that had some dubious information a couple of weeks ago, about Canon blocking them from listing U.S. retailers?</em><br /> <em><br /></em>That info was not the least bit dubious at all.<em><br /><a href="http://www.photoprice.ca/article/photoprice-silenced-by-canon">http://www.photoprice.ca/article/photoprice-silenced-by-canon</a><br /></em></p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

<p>My mistake. I recall that information was greeted with some skepticism in a previous thread.</p>

<p>KEH quit shipping new gear to Canada some time ago. I bought new gear from them about 7 years ago, but when I tried 1-2 years ago they said they were not allowed to ship new gear. They still happily sell used gear to us Canucks.</p>

<p>So I think this sort of thing is not new. I'm not sure what kinds of agreements that Canon and retailers have in place. </p>

One possibility is that Canon wants to support Canadian retailers by penalizing US retailers who ship products north of the border. But

that's just a guess on my part.

<p><em>Bob Atkins wrote:</em><br>

<em>I knew PhotoPrice.ca had been complaining that they had lost affiliate status with "a big US vendor" for this reason.</em><br>

I should clarify that PhotoPrice.ca still remains an affiliate of all the "big US vendors". We were told by three vendors that my site was singled out for advertising that they sold Canon products to Canada -- affiliate or not -- and continuing to do so would have a large adverse effect on their business, and may even prevent shipping to Canada altogether, due to various new manufacturer agreements. I am merely complaining about Canon using such tactics to segment the US and Canadian markets.<br>

Keep in mind that there is a cross-border warranty for Canon, and thus the US and Canadian products are identical.</p>

<p>Either way if they do stop shipping to Canuks I'll just drive to BH lol It will give me a reason for a weekend away lol</p>

<p>Indeed the products are identical but Canon USA and Canon Canada are independent divisions of Canon. You can think of them as seperate companies, each responsible for their own "bottom line". As far as I know they each report back to Canon with their own financial statements. It's quite understandable that they don't want each other "poaching" their own sales. For example warranty coverage is built into the price of the camera. Every camera bought in the USA and serviced under warranty in Canada costs Canon Canada money since they didn't make any money on the camera sale. I suppose it applies the other way too, though I suspect far more Canadians buy from US vendors than US buyers buy from Canadian vendors.</p>

<p>From the point of view of Canon USA I'd assume they'd actually be delighted to sell to Canadians, since they won't have to pay for any warranty repairs. However Canon Canada probably wouldn't be pleased and I assume that Canon Canada and Canon USA play together under the Canon corporate umbrella.</p>

<p>The affiliate status is only relevant because there would be no point in 3rd party advertising of US vendors on a Canadian website unless those vendors were affiliates. If they were not affiliates neither the vendors nor Canon would have any control whatsoever over anything posted on a Canadian website by a 3rd party who was not associated with Canon or the US vendor.</p>

<p>I presume the chain goes like this:</p>

<p>In order to be an authorized Canon distributor a vendor has to agree to certain terms. On is that the vendor can't advertise an items for less than the MAP (minimum advertised price). They can sell it for less, but they can't advertise it for less. Another may be that they can't advertise (or allow to be advertised) Canon merchandise outside of the USA. I don't know this is the case but it looks like it may be.</p>

<p>The vendor has an afiiliate in Canada. That affiliate advertises on behalf of the US vendor. Canon then tell the vendor that in their opinion this breaks their authorized dealer agreement. The vendor then tells the affiliate to stop advertising or they will loose their authorized dealer status.</p>

<p>If the affiliate doesn't stop advertising, all the vendor can do is refuse to ship to Canada. That way they won't be breaking the authorized dealer agreement.</p>

<p>If the affiliate does stop advertising, then the vendor can ship to Canada without breaking the authorized dealer agreement. In that case the customer is seeking out the vendor, the vendor is not seeking out the customer.</p>

 

<p><em>Indeed the products are identical but Canon USA and Canon Canada are independent divisions of Canon. You can think of them as seperate companies, each responsible for their own "bottom line".</em><br /><br /> Surprise #1: Canon Canada is a <strong>wholly owned subsidiary</strong> of Canon USA.<br /><br /><em>The affiliate status is only relevant because there would be no point in 3rd party advertising of US vendors on a Canadian website unless those vendors were affiliates.</em><br /> <em></em><br />Surprise #2: Canon USA prices (at certain times during the year) are much, much, cheaper than prices in Canada. The reason why PhotoPrice is extremely popular is people it presents a final comparison (tax, shipping, duty) between US to Canadian prices. This feature is the one that makes the site.</p>

<p>What is interesting is that B&H's website states that they will ship the Canon 5D MkIII to Canada but "Due to certain restrictions" wont ship a Nikon D800!<br>

Now who's really setting the rules Canon? Nikon? B&H? All of them?</p>

<p>Gordon -- thanks for jumping in. Always good to hear from a knowledgeable source in a position to know the facts.</p>

<p>According to our buyer no one from Canon USA has told us we're not permitted to ship Canon products to Canada. At this time there are no particular restrictions from Canon USA regarding shipping destinations at all.</p>

<p>@Colin: The restriction on shipping Nikon digital slrs to any address outside the USA is set by Nikon USA and applies to all Nikon USA authorized retailers.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>Indeed the products are identical but Canon USA and Canon Canada are independent divisions of Canon. You can think of them as seperate companies, each responsible for their own "bottom line".</em><br /><br />Surprise #1: Canon Canada is a <strong>wholly owned subsidiary</strong> of Canon USA.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Inc. (Japan), but that doesn't mean it isn't responsible for it's own bottom line when financial reports are due. What I'm saying is that there's no monolithic "Canon North America" just as there is no monolithic Canon. Canon USA and Canon Canada operate independently, or at least as independently as Canon USA and Canon Inc. (Japan) do. In the end it's Canon Inc. (Japan) who calls the shots. A subsidiary company can even operate in competition with its parent company. Subsidiary is a description of ownership, not necassarily of control or competition. </p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>The affiliate status is only relevant because there would be no point in 3rd party advertising of US vendors on a Canadian website unless those vendors were affiliates.</em><br /><br />Surprise #2: Canon USA prices (at certain times during the year) are much, much, cheaper than prices in Canada. The reason why PhotoPrice is extremely popular is people it presents a final comparison (tax, shipping, duty) between US to Canadian prices. This feature is the one that makes the site.<br /> </p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's what I said. There would be no point in you advertising USA prices from USA vendors unless you were an affiliate of the US stores offering those prices. If you weren't an affiliate of those stores there would be nothing that anyone could do to stop you directing buyers to them. Neither the stores nor Canon could influence what is posted on a Canadian website except via an indirect financial mechanism. Once money is out of the equation you can do whatever you want.<br /> <br /><br /> Canon, Nikon and other manufacturers can put restrictions in their Authorized Dealer Agreements if they want to. If they say a US retailer can't ship US authorized items to Canada if they want to stay in the authorized dealer program they can, and some obviously do. I'm sure there are non-authorized dealers who will. There's no legal ban on cross border sales.</p>

<p>Henry, Thanks for that answer.<br>

So it now begs the question, if one travels from Canada and buys a Nikon from a USA approved retailer, will the supplied Nikon USA warranty be honoured by Nikon Canada (or elsewhere)?<br>

Is it a worlwide warranty?</p>

<p>Nikon's warranty is not cross-border. Nikon Canada refuses to service any Nikon equipment not bought in Canada. You can refer to this <a href="http://www.photoprice.ca/article/warranty-us-canada-grey-market">warranty reference information</a>.</p>