What strobes to light a large dance floor?

<p>What kind of strobes would you recommend to light the dance floor? It's rather large probably at least 30x30. I actually thought of getting 4 flashpoints from adorama (1200 Watt Seconds): http://www.adorama.com/FP2420.html<br>

What do you guys think? Should I go with something more powerful? What do you use? </p>

 

<p>Is this a reception dance floor at a wedding? As opposed to a recital of a dance studio...</p>

<p>If so, you don't need very powerful lights, particularly if you are going to use 4 of them. Most DSLRs these days are capable of perfectly nice higher ISO images, meaning shoemounts will work just fine, in most cases. Monolights--maybe if you are going to bounce only and maintain a low/medium ISO or smaller apertures. 30x30 is what I'd consider medium sized. I'd probably be using 2 off camera lights.</p>

<p>Yes, this is for a wedding. Nadine, what brand are you using? I don't want to go too high with ISO, with my 5DMKII I try and stay at 1600 or less.</p>

<p>I shoot most dim/evening receptions at ISO 1250, using 2, sometimes 3, off camera flashes. I have 2 Sunpak 120Js, but I don't always use both. Sometimes I use a shoemount--I have various ones. Presently, one of them is a Vivitar 285 because it has a metal foot and takes a beating. I have two other Metz shoemounts that I can use, as well as another Vivitar 283.</p>

<p>I also have a Norman 200B and a Dynalite UNI400, which I've used when I knew I'd be bouncing flash all night long in medium to large spaces. I also have a Dynalite corded system, but I hardly use that for wedding receptions.</p>

<p>I use two or three Nikon Speedlights mounted on clamps or with velcro straps up high and out of the way. I own several studio strobes, but would <strong>never</strong> ever use them during a reception; you're asking for a lawsuit when someone trips over a cord, or a broken strobe when a stand gets knocked over. That can be an expensive lesson to learn. Besides, you generally don't want the entire floor lit, you do want to open up the background a bit, but you don't want a nighttime reception to look like daylight (plus too many big strobes going off is annoying to guests). Addditionally, keeping the rest of the room a stop or two darker will help to isolate your subjects, and maintain the mood.</p>

<p>Look for something better when it comes to strobes. Around 500-600 true Ws, recycle time around 1 second at full power and the ability to set the flash power down to 1/16 power or less. If you can change the power remotely that might be useful as well. </p>

<p>Speedlights are a useful tool but strobes are superior when it comes to flash power and recycle time. Easier with strobes if you are two shooters firing the same strobes. I would prefer to use strobes all the time but they take longer to set up since they need ac power so many times it's easier to use a couple of speedlights.</p>

<p>I think two strobes are a good starting point. I would take a look at the Einstein strobes or the Elinchrom bxri. Remember that you can use your strobes for other purposes as well.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all your responses. I've shot weddings with other photographers and they were using elinchrom and Whitelightning from Paul Buff. Elinchrom units are so expensive I don't think I can justify the price.</p>

<p>Alex one of the photographers I've worked with, has been setting up lights for the past 30 years and has never had a problem with people tripping over them. They are usually setup in a corner or right by the DJ.</p>

Sometimes aiming strobes at the dance floor with a second, third,or fourth strobe will cause havoc with all sorts of issues, such as shadows, over exposing, underexposing, temperature changes, and whatever you can think of that can go wrong.

 

You surely can bounce strobes placed in the back and light up the tables, with people of course standing around.

 

Sometimes I will backlight the B&G during their first dance, That can be a fun shot lighting up her veil. As always, when doing something new, cover yourself by shooting the normal shot you've always done.

 

If you have a meter and your camera is pretty much set at f-11 the background strobes would be cool if you set them up around F8 to 8.5. If your camera is set at 5.6 I think the extra strobes would look great at F4. So a 1/2 to 1 stop lower is a good start.

<p>Lukasz, the bxri is Elinchrom mid level monolights (RX is their high end). They are $585 each so more expensive than the ones you looked at but not as expensive as their RX models or other high end models like the $1200 Profoto D1 500Ws air.<br>

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/602685-REG/Elinchrom_EL_20461_1_Style_500_BXRi_Compact.html</p>

Lukasz, for the reception dancefloor with my 5dmkii I usually have the 580 exii on camera in ettl and a 430 in manual at

1/4 power synced with pocketwizards. I then drag the shutter to usually around 1/40th and shoot fairly wide open and

then bring my iso up so that the background is underexposed by about a stop. Usually I don't have to take the iso above

800 for this. Depending on the venue I have the 430 bouncing straight up off the ceiling or have it aimed right at the

dance floor. This has resulted in well exposed dance floor shots for me in even dimly lit reception halls. Having the 580

on camera with its autofocus assist beam is clutch too.

 

I have contemplated getting an elinchrome so that I can do some cool work a la Zach and Jody gray outside to get some

great dramatic skies, but for receptions the speedlites have been plenty powerful for me.

 

At 1/4 power the refresh time is pretty speedy too on the 430 exii.

<p>Lukasz, it sounds like you are already familiar with the use of strobe heads at a wedding. Whether you think it is worth it for receptions probably shouldn't be the only criteria ... as Pete S. mentioned, they can be used for a lot of other applications, including at a wedding.</p>

<p>I moved off using speed-lights for almost all off-camera lighting because I got tired of correcting mixed lighting and odd lighting patterns on people ... especially the formal portraits indoors ... and was sick of fighting the sun when shooting outdoors. Since doing that, not only did the quality of the photos improve, my time in post processing was drastically reduced. That alone made it worth the money and effort.</p>

<p>While most of today's cameras can produce results at ISO 1,000 and above, I'm not a fan of doing that unless forced to. Past 800 and the tonal range starts to shorten, similar colors start to blend and shift. In most cases this can be adjusted in post, but again that's just more time spent ... so, it depends on how much your time is worth to you.</p>

<p>Nothing wrong with the "Buff Stuff", but as mentioned there are other choices ... best to investigate everything before buying. Perhaps the most important aspect is being able to control the lights remotely from the camera ... including shutting them off when desired,</p>

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<p>Least expensive with the most versatility will be the "Buff Stuff". An Einstein is an incredible strobe for the money. And there isn't a battery pack that I am aware of that compares to the mini Vagabond (although at a reception you will probably be able to plug it a strobe). I agree with Marc, going to a strobe as opposed to a shoe mount flash, offers far more possibilities than just the reception. </p>

<p>The next step up from the "Buff Stuff" will be the Elinchrom lights. Quite a bit more expensive and if you want a battery pack system, really expensive! I currently use the "Buff Stuff" but I have used some Elinchrom RX monolights and to be honest, I am not sure if they are worth the price. Yes, they are nice and very well built (you can't compare Buff's tin reflector to the cast aluminum (?) of Elinchrom reflector), but I just don't see the return on investment there. </p>

<p>After that, you get to Profoto or Broncolor. Premium stuff, premium price. I like the Profoto stuff. Hard to rationalize for your average wedding!</p>

<p>The kind of lights you use to light a dance floor depends on what kind of effect you want on the dance floor. Sometimes I specifically use shoemounts because I <strong>want</strong> the background to be dark, and the lights to show as a star in the background. Studio monolights don't do as well with that kind of application.</p>

<p>I bring monolights if I need monolights, such as if I will be bouncing flash all evening--lots of light used a lot. I bring shoemounts to do the job shoemounts can do that monolights may have trouble doing. I don't try to fit every situation to a set of lights I bring all the time.</p>

<p>To turn off the strobe I would just turn off the transmitter on camera and shoot with shoe mount flash. Speaking of transmitters I didn't really enjoy working with pocket wizards. Any suggestions for other brands/alternatives when it comes to transmitters? Any experience with Micro Sync?</p>

<p>I can't justify the price for Elinchrom, Profoto or Broncolor because I'm shooting average weddings (average in price). Market in the midwest is very competitive and it would take several weddings for those lights to get fairly quick ROI, add camera equipment, etc and it can be few years.</p>

<p>You might try Phottix Strato Multi II triggers. Look on Amazon for them. They are inexpensive yet have a good reputation for reliability. You can also do 'groups' with them, meaning you can set up different strobes on difference channels and use them in groups 'at will'.</p>

<p>As for lights, many Lumedyne, Norman portables, and Quantum early models can be purchased used for very good prices. They aren't the latest electronic wonders but they certainly can provide mid level power for little money.</p>

<p>I meant turn on/off any modeling light as well as control levels at the camera ... I should have been clearer.<em></em></p>

<p>With some these type radio controlled monolights, the 300 watt (650 watts in EU) modeling lights alone can provide just enough additional tungsten light to lift murky backgrounds when shooting at higher ISOs. In this case the strobe is on, but the transmitter is not. To turn the modeling light off or change its intensity, you turn on the transmitter, and use it to turn the modeling light off or adjust the level when desired. All controllable from the camera providing lots of flexibility of choice.</p>

<p>However, most of those type systems are probably too expensive for you if bought new. <em>Used is a different story<strong>*</strong>.</em></p>

<p>I'd check the specifications on the Microsync units. I use one on a Leica because it's so small, but even the new, improved Microsync VM2T has up to a 200' maximum distance. By comparison, the new Pocket/Wizard Plus III has up to 1,640' maximum distance.</p>

<p>I have some experience with the Phottix Strato Multi-II radio system Nadine mentioned, I use them with a 35mm DSLR when using just speed-lights for additional off-camera lighting. They are nice because for Canon, Nikon and Sony they provide pass through TTL functions to the on-camera speed-light. Put the Stratos in the hot-shoe, the speed-light in the Stratos top shoe, and you retain TTL for the on-camera light. It doesn't TTL control the remote flash, just triggers it. Has good distance, but I wouldn't use it for any longer distance triggering like I would a Pocket Wizard or Profoto AIR radio. </p>

<p><em><strong>*</strong>Very capable monolight studio strobes can be bought at reasonable prices ... Hensel Integra Plus 500w/s monos with Strobe Wizard full remote control at the camera can be had for about $350 to $400 each used (or even as demos) for the wise shopper. As new units come out with more features, people upgrade and very durable pro level monos come on market at very nice pricing. Just avoid buying from a production studio ... most advanced amateurs hardly break-in a Pro strobe before selling it ... I think these are real bargains. </em></p>

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<p>Speaking of transmitters I didn't really enjoy working with pocket wizards.</p>

 

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<p>Why? What was the issue? Without knowing that it is hard to make any suggestions. For me, I <em>love</em> the new Flex system. It works with the Buff Stuff, it provides radio wireless TTL transmission for eight Nikon or Canon gear (you have to buy either the Nikon or Canon set), and I can control the power of the lights, Buff Stuff included, from the camera position. About the only drawback is price. However, it isn't that much more expensive than the old Pocket Wizard Plus II use to be. Of course now the have newer, cheaper "dumb" triggers.</p>

Note with the mini tt1 on camera if you tur n it off your on ca meta flash will not work. It isn't a passive system like a sync

cord. You have to actually take the mini off the camera and put the flash back on to the camera's shoe.

<p>I used the basic PocketWizard II. The problem with them was that they wouldn't trigger the lights consistently. Also those units were very limited, all it is just an expensive trigger which didn't allow for auto control of the flash unit or any other fancy stuff. Too simple of a device for a price that is way too high.</p>

<p>Your experience is an anomaly Likasz. Pocket Wizards are the most ubiquitously used radio system amongst Professional photographers world-wide. If your PWs weren't consistently triggering properly, either there was something wrong with it, or something else was amiss ... like the strobe not being fully recycled, or how the receiver was positioned or connected. While not infallible, and anything to do with radio triggering can be "rebellious" at times, PWs tend to rise above the pack for reliable triggering. </p>

<p>The new Pocket Wizard-III, is now even more capable, and $30 less expensive, Why they are so desirable is clearly explained on the Strobist Blog ... scroll down to the Feb 2oth entry: http://strobist.blogspot.com/</p>

<p>Personally, I like location strobe systems with built-in receivers that allow adjustment from the camera also (doesn't matter much in the studio) ... Some are great, some are flimsy, and all can be a bit finicky at times. Most rarely will trigger at any great distance, at least not 1,640 feet like the PW-IIIs ... not that we shoot/light at those kind of distances, but given obstructions and other conditions that can affect performance, those statistics take on a different meaning.</p>

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<p>The problem with them was that they wouldn't trigger the lights consistently.</p>

 

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<p>I'm with Marc, something else was wrong. PW's are known for the consistency. In any event, the original lights you linked too cannot be controlled from the camera position. In that event, you could use something less expensive than a PW transmitter/receiver (although the new units a bit less than the old Pocket Wizard units). If you look at the Buff Stuff, they can be triggered with a PW Flex system (which also allows TTL flash control for Canon or Nikon) OR Buff lights can be triggered with Buff's Cyber Commander. I am not a fan of the Cyber Commander at weddings. Quantum will have it's own proprietary trigging system that will do TTL and control QFlashes. From there, you are looking a proprietary systems from Elinchrom or Profoto or whoever you choose. The Quantum systems and the Pocket Wizard Flex systems are the only ones I know that do TTL <em>and</em> another strobe. So it really depends on how much control you want from the camera position.</p>