Radio Triggers for Weddings

<p>Hi folks</p>

<p>I am wondering if someone could help me choose between radio triggers. I have done a search through the archive and that has helped immensely, but I still have a couple of unanswered questions. I shoot Nikon D700 & D300 and currently use SB900 as a commander to control 3 x SB600 off camera (although it is rare indeed that I use all three at once) and 90% are one flash shots.</p>

<p>1 - I am trying to figure out what the difference between PocketWizard's FlexTT5, Mini, Plus & PlusII, but everything seems vague. I think I have narrowed it down to the Flex and the Mini. Am I better of just getting Flex's or should I mix and match with Mini's?</p>

<p>2 - Is it possible to fire 3 flashes using a combination of Nikon's CLS infrared system for two (key and fill) and radio for the third flash (rim)?</p>

<p>Thanks so much for your time</p>

<p>You should check PWs website for details, but here is an overview.<br>

The Plus/Plus II are manual trigger only, no control over exposure (TTL).<br>

The newer FlexTT5(receiver) and Mini (transmitter,goes on hotshoe) provide TTL/ETTL (canon). You can mount a flash on top of the Mini, so you SHOULD be able to also use the Nikon CLS also.<br>

I will defer to the Nikonians out there, I use this combo with Canon and it works very well. Less expensive alternatives you may want to consider would include the Radio Poppers, I have heard good things about them as well from pros.</p>

<p>I use a TT1+AC3 on top of my D3 and a TT5 with each of my strobes (SB-600/SB-800/SB-900). They work like a charm. The AC3 makes life so easy. You can change lighting ratios and turn on/off strobes at the touch of a dial.</p>

<p>I haven't tried to use Pocket Wizards in conjunction with CLS. The IR trigger in CLS is atrociously unreliable. That's why I got Pocket Wizards. Besides, my D3 doesn't have a pop-up flash so it cannot command strobes unless I waste a strobe by putting it on the D3. Once the TT1+AC3 is mounted on the D3, I cannot mount a strobe, so I'll never find out if PW+CLS works. This might be possible with bodies having a pop-up flash.</p>

<p>Franckly, though, I don't see why you would need it. The TT1+AC3 can control 3 zones. I believe you can put multiple strobes per zone. If you're doing 3 or more strobes, though, you're probably in the studio in which case you should probably be using monoblocs or power-pack lights and metering each separately.</p>

<p>thanks guys</p>

<p>@mark - it seems that in an ideal world, the setup would be 1 x miniTT1 + AC3 + 4 x FlexTT5. that's a mighty expensive bundle, but it has everything seemingly - TTL, high speed sync etc</p>

<p>@Allan - the reason i want to know if it works, is purely financial. if i can get one flash to trigger out of sight, then i think that is all i need.</p>

<p>I'll maybe just settle for manual control because of the price involved. i know a lot of people are harsh on TTL flash, but personally I'm very happy with it, only rarely having to switch to manual.</p>

<p>I wonder if there is a manual trigger with the ability to adjust power from the master unit?</p>

<p>To expand on the advice already given... the Flex is a transceiver. So it will work as either a transmitter OR a receiver. The mini TT1 is <em>only</em> a transmitter. The drawback to using a Flex on the camera as a transmitter is that the size of the unit covers the left dial (white-balance, ISO, and Quality are very hard to access with a Flex in the hot shoe). Whereas the mini doesn't cover anything. Drawback is that the mini uses a round battery whereas the Flex will use a couple of AAs. You cannot operate Nikon's CLS via the flashes IR trigger when either a mini or a Flex is in the hot shoe. IR triggering is disabled when these units are in the hotshoe. Of course, if you are using the Flex system, you may not have need of IR triggering... only you will need a receiver for each flash unit. You could use a Plus receiver on a flash (you would need an pc adapter for an SB600), and have a mini/Flex trigger it- but only as a regular "dumb" unit, no TTL, just firing the flash when the shutter is open. And as Allan points out, the AC3 is GREAT. A mini with an AC3 has a much nicer profile than using a flash on top of the camera. I put use the mini/ac3 on the camera and a SB800 on a Cheetah stand. I pick up the stand and go where I need. Love It. Finally, the AC3 can also control Buff monolights <em>from the camera position. </em>I really love that. </p>

<p>I've never used Radio Poppers but if you want to control power output remotely from your SB600s the JrX system with the RP Cubes is one solution.<br>

http://radiopopper.com/the-jrx-system</p>

<p>It uses older technology designed for film cameras. The transmitter has 3 knobs, they are the power levels for the 3 groups. The receivers use that setting from the transmitter to send a quench signal to the flash at a predetermined time (via the knob on the transmitter). The longer the time, the more flash output. The Cube is required to transfer that quench signal to the flash itself. This is not TTL at all, this is full manual flash. But if that's what you want this may be the thing for you.</p>

<p>Please note that this will not control power levels on an SB900. Nikon is starting to make it's move away from film and that flash doesn't read the quench signal like older flash units do.</p>

<p>Iorek, you'd only consider multiple minis if you had multiple cameras you are working with that you want to trigger. So far the battery on the mini has lasted me eons. The double AAs on the flex I have to switch much more often. I definitely think it's worth getting the mini for your main camera for the cheaper pricing and the better profile.</p>

<p>@Iorek -- I believe you can wire some speedlights together to save a pocket wizard if you need multiple lights in one zone. As for the cost, I agonized about it for a long time, and finally capitulated. I'm so happy I gave in. They are so easy to use. Their ease of use enables me to do a better job. I can do things on-location that I would only do in the studio. Also, it sounds like you've had better luck with IR trigger than I had. For me, IR triggering was so unreliable I gave up.<br>

@John -- thanks for mentioning Cheetah stands. They look much easier to work fast with than the Photoflex stands I use. Do you use the Cheetah Minis? <a href="http://www.cheetahstand.com/servlet/the-119/Cheetah-Mini/Detail">http://www.cheetahstand.com/servlet/the-119/Cheetah-Mini/Detail</a> They look flimsy, though. They look like they can fall over in a wind and there is no place for a sandbag. Any suggestions on how to protect your PW + SB-x00 from a fall?</p>

<p>I use the C8 for shoe mount flashes and a C12 Air for an Alien Bee. When I bought mine, they didn't have a mini! Although I might try one. If I were using a mini, I wouldn't use it outside. And I don't usually use a C8 or shoe mount flash outside either. But indoors, you just pick it up and go! I try to stay away from sandbags when working a wedding... there is only so much I can carry. Often, I might be using an Alien Bee outside with nothing but the reflector and a diffusion sock. On a C12, this is pretty hard to blow over. If the wind were such that it could blow over, I would either have my own assistant or I would recruit someone from the wedding party to hold it.</p>

<p>If you don't need radio eTTL off-camera, these pass-through triggers (mount your eTTL flash on top of them and use as normal) work perfectly for me so far:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.phottixstore.com/store/phottix-strato-ii-multi-5-in-1-wireless-flash-trigger.html">http://www.phottixstore.com/store/phottix-strato-ii-multi-5-in-1-wireless-flash-trigger.html</a></p>

<p>I don't have input on the original question (I use Canon and Cybersyncs), but I have comments about stands. I have the original Redwing stand that the Cheetahs were based upon. They are great for what they were designed to do. They aren't easy to operate (the pick up and put down part) on grass or uneven surfaces, so outside, the pick up/put down part is limited--even a negative, since you fight to put it down smoothly (usually while your hands are full, since you're expecting ease of use). I stick the toe part of my foot underneath the bottom of the center shaft to get the legs started and then gently set the stand down. Inside, on smooth surfaces, they are great.</p>

<p>The other part of the Cheetah stand use is the leg spread. Not that wide, and not adjustable. The way I use stands, I like adjusting the leg spread to fit spaces, loads and heights. I would not put my 60"umbrella on my Redwing stand. I also don't pick up and put down my stands a lot, during a reception. I used to, with film and one light, but don't now, with multiple lights.</p>

<p>As for wind and being knocked over, it depends on the profile of the light you have on the stand more than the stand itself, given adequate leg spread. A shoemount with no modifier and just a receiver isn't going to be much of a problem. The minute you put something on it, like an umbrella, you will have a problem, even with heavier, larger stands.</p>

<p>Before buying stands, analyze how you carry your gear and what you put on the stands. Since I work alone, I limit what I carry. Yet when I need large stands, for instance, I bring them, with a plan as to how I will use them (since I don't use assistants). I have several bags/cases I use for various configurations, all with a single trip and on me, in mind.</p>

<p>By the way, get creative with sandbag replacements--I've used my shoulder bag on a bungee cord, and/or battery packs or other gear. You might want to carry water fillable bags as a last resort. Sandbags can be wrapped around the bottom of any stand.</p>

<p>I have to say that I've been less than pleased with pocket wizards. They don't work with 580 EX II flashes and we had 2 of those and 2 430 EX IIs. We had to send the to 580s into a 3rd party for modification at the start of this wedding season and about 6 weeks ago one of the 580s (which is only 2 years old). I can't help but think those wizards had something to do with it.<br>

We use them a lot at receptions and I find myself resetting the transmitter on the camera at least 5 times each wedding. For some reason the remotes just stop responding and I have to reset that transmitter. And I use both the MIMI and the Flex TT5. </p>

<p>I do not recommend this product and wish I had never bought them. The $20 eBay manual triggers are more reliable.</p>

 

<p>thanks so much for your responses folks. i think that i will try and get my hands on some to do testing. i know that i need them, but don't want to spend the money.</p>

<p>merry christmas</p>

<p>If you don't want to spend the money, my recommendation is that you forgo i-TTL and get either Cybersyncs or the Phottix Stratos. My Cybersyncs are totally reliable. I've heard good things about the Stratos. You can go cheaper but the reliability factor will drop. It depends what you want out of your triggers.</p>

<p>I regularly use the RadioPoppers. They are great at being consistent and operate over much greater distances, reliably.</p>

<p>I have a set of PW's that I have not used in a while (due to the RP's). I can have multiple units working as individuals, or in groups or a combination. Ratios are easy as they are set via the SB900. They operate using ttl or manual or auto. I generally use them in manual mode as I like to work that way, but I have had good success with ttl too.</p>

<p>I don't know too much about the latest PW's, but I do know a few photogs using them and they are not as reliable.</p>

<p>An interesting alternative is the newest MicroSync VM2TR</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/812461-REG/MicroSync_VM2TR_VM2TR_Wireless_Transmitter_Receiver_Kit.html</p>

<p>Absolutely the smallest shoe-mount sender out there. Weighs in at a whopping 0.7 oz. 200' range, new power-saving approach with no on-off switch to remember to turn off. 3 year battery, 16 channels with a new LCD readout to show settings. New shoe mount lock-down wheel which the first one didn't have.</p>

<p>Receiver also has no on-off switch ... and comes with a number of plug-in options, including a shoe mount for strobist work with speed-lights featuring a PC port.</p>

<p>Great for today's smaller cameras ... which seem to be getting smaller every year. I use a MicroSync on my Leica M camera since many other radio senders are as almost as big as the camera : -)</p>

<p>Bowens also makes radio triggers. They are small and work quite well. They are not integrated into any camera system being just radio triggers. Each unit can function as a receiver or transmitter. You have 4 channels and 8 groups within each channel (or all).</p>

<p>I like Strato II's because they eliminate any and all need for cord-type adapters. They just slip on the hot shoe. I also like them because they WORK and have never spontaneously reset themselves/turn themselves off since I bought them. 100% reliability. I really like that I can select any combination of groups at any time and that they are fully independent of each other.</p>

<p>I dislike that the AAA batteries will die if they are left on for long periods, since they do not automatically power off.</p>

<p>I was with cyber sync for a while and switched to radio popper - you can control everything through you master and they are exception. Love my poppers and you could not pay me to give them up...</p>

<p>I shoot almost exclusively manual on my camera and on my flashes, so for me the Cybersync system does exactly what I need. The system is significantly cheaper than the PW solution (which is pretty much the industry standard). If you need iTTL capability, then the Flex system is probably your best bet. If you shoot manual flash, or if cash is an issue (when <em>isn't</em> it an issue? lol) then the Cybersyncs from Paul Buff are definitely worth a look. I have found them to be extremely reliable.</p>