Distilled Water /Condensing Clothes Dryer

<p>I have the occasional problem with washing my films and it has been suggested the problem might be down to particles in the water. Obviously the answer would be a water filter but they cost money and I have next to no budget - any budget I have I'd rather spend on film/chems. Somebody suggested I could use distilled water for the final wash. As I emptied yet another container of water from my clothes dryer (it's a condensing type), it occured to me that the water I was tipping down the drain must be distilled water.. Has anybody utilised this source of distilled water? (Presuming it is) Can you forsee any potential problems? cheers</p>

<p>Detergent residue?</p>

<p>Hi,<br>

The water from my dryer is far from particle free, but that may ofcourse just be my dryer. Nowadays I use water that has been put through a Brita filter. I always thought the particle bit mattered more in the developing stage though. So what problems have you actually had?<br>

Cheers, Bert</p>

<p>Water <strong>is</strong> a chemical, and as you have seen it is just as criticial to the process as any of your other chemicals. The distilled/deionized variety is usually available for about $1 per gallon at a supermarket/drugstore in the US. The water from a clothes dryer probably has a lot of dust in it, I would not use it. If you use 12 oz/per final wash for two rolls of film, it costs about 5 cents per roll to use the DI water.</p>

<p>Distilled water is water which has been heated to steam (212 degrees farenheit) and then passed thru a cooling tube condensing the steam back to the liquid form. Your clothes dryer doesn't do that. Just go to the local supermarket and get a $1 jug of distilled water.</p>

<p>Are you using PhotoFlo? I would wash in regular tap water but mix PhotoFlo with distilled water. Since the PhotoFlo is the last liquid to touch the film, that should take care of the particles. PhotoFlo also helps eliminating drying marks from water, which might be at least some of what you're seeing on your film. Also, where are you drying your film? If it's anything short of a dustproof drying cabinet, you run the risk of particles in the air getting on the film even if the water is pristine. I'm not saying you need a drying cabinet -- I've never had one myself -- but you might want to take airborne dust into consideration.</p>

<p>If you are worried about particulate matter in the water, filter the water using coffee filters. Coffee filters are nothing more than filter paper used in chemistry labs; it will remove the particulates, but not the minerals disolved in the water.</p>

<p>Most of you are probably to young to remember when the paper coffe filters were first used in the late 1950's. The system was called the "Chemists Coffee Brewer" and consisted of nothing more than an Enlenmeyer flask, a glass funnel to hold the filter paper which held the coffee, and a kettle in which you boiled the water. The filter was lab filter paper. This is the way coffee was brewed in some some chem labs. A few years later Mr. Coffee combined a water heater with a filter holder and pot warmer - voila the modern coffee maker. </p>

<p>To keep the disolved minerals in tap water from condensing on the drying film, I agree with Craig, use PhotoFlo mixed with distilled water. I would purchase the distilled water from the store; your dryer water probably has small lint particles in it.</p>

 

<p>Yeah a buck for a gallon and use it just for the final rinse to save $. 1 jug would last a long time.</p>

<p>Thanks for all your wise words. I'll ditch that particular 'inspirational' idea then. Probably needs a new thread but this is one of the problems I get occasionally, which may not actually be a water particulate problem but that's what has been suggested to me by a couple of local contacts.</p><div></div>

<p>It costs 33c/gallon if you have your own bottle...</p>

<p>You could filter it through a coffee filter - that's what I use. I collect the ice that builds up in my freezer compartment when I defrost the fridge, let it melt, filter it and use it to make up solutions where distilled water is required.</p>

<p>Whats the magnification on that scan? Is it like that across the entire negative? That might not be particulate, but rather minerals in the water that are precipitating as the water dries. If that is the case, then filtering would do no good. Switch to DI water and see if that goes away.</p>

<p>Your scan looks like redeposited silver from reused fixer. If you reuse fixer filter it through a coffee filter in a funnel.</p>

<p>I get that when I use wd2d+. It's real sensitive to not having all the fixer washed off.</p>

<p>I cured it by washing the film for 10-15 mins in my aqua prem film washer and then dipping the whole real into iso alcohol (30 secs). I flick all the excess off then hang it to dry.</p>

<p>How ever you wash, just wash more.....</p>

<p>Distilled water is water of low purity, it is water heated to the boiling point and the boiling point depends on the pressure, when the boiling point been reached the water will start to evaporate and wet steam will be generated.<br /> At when the steam needed to be at a higher temperature and fully saturated for a prime mover use, then it is passed to super heaters and so the process go on as required and even to a superheated steam ratio.<br /> Then when this water is cooled by a heat exchanger it condenses and that condensation is collected again as it is considered feed water of low conductivity which mean water of low solidity, this water was costly to produce because of the fuel used and the chemical treatment process, this is the type of water you need, to use with your films.</p>

<p>Wow. I'm not sure I understood that entirely.</p>

<p>Anyway, you might want to think about using distilled water for your developer and/or fixer too. My tap water is (relatively) clean, even coming from the bathtub faucet. I never had much in the way of particle problems, aside from a little dust that would occasionally dry on my negs. But after experimenting, I found that using a weak dilution of Rodinal (like 1:100), pyro, or anything else with an extremely low developer or fixer to water ration, I got a lot more junk in my negs. I cannot use Rodinal 1:100 without distilled water.</p>

<p>I can only assume it's a signal-to-noise thing. When your chems are stronger, there is more chemical than particulate. When your chems are diluted (or partially depleted), there is more particulate than chemical.</p>

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p>I know nothing about developing film, but I have spent a lot (too much?) time in labs over the years, so I figured I'd confirm what a few people have said... I'd ditch the dryer water idea (since, as stated above, the dust thrown into it would negate the benefits of distilling it, and coffee filters alone won't fix that) but the ice from the freezer (generated through sublimation, which you can think of as really, really, slow cold distillation) should be much cleaner... I'd also vouch for the coffee filters being a safe way to get rid of large particles, but it won't save you from a lot of the solutes that you're counting on distillation to get rid of. You.d need a filter with much smaller pores to get rid of the smallest solids, and you still wouldn't get rid of other fluids (this is in general - I have no idea what's causing the spotting on your film!).</p>

<p>You could actually distill your own water... I've never had to go searching for distilled water, though, since we have it on tap. At the costs and volumes listed above, I'd probably just buy some if your freezers don't generate enough.</p>

<p>Hope that helps a little.</p>

<p>Mike</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You could actually distill your own water... I've never had to go searching for distilled water, though, since we have it on tap. At the costs and volumes listed above, I'd probably just buy some if your freezers don't generate enough.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I do, and it is sooooooo convenient. It does pay for itself and it is real distilled water, as opposed to the filtered stuff at the drug store. The first time you use it, look at the crud left behind and you will question why you have done this before.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thanks all for you input.<br>

I have just started using rodinal but I have had a problem using microphen too. I think I'll bite the bullet and get some distilled water for both chems and final rinse. I'm not sure it would be cost effective for me to make my own - and to be honest the faff/usage ratio isn't worth the effort.<br>

Luckily the film shown here (120 FP4) was an experimental piece of work as I was trying out my new 760mm pinhole capability. (but that is another story!)<br>

Cheers</p>

 

<p>Yes you can use Distilled water for this purposes.But still many people are not aware of <a href="http://distilledwaters.info/howtomakedistilledwater/">what is distilled water</a>.If you are aware of it than you will definitely go for it.Thank you for your discussion.</p>

<p>Also, try running the shower in your bath so that it steams the room. (not like a sauna) From what I've been told it should eliminate a good bit of the dust in the environment and would be a good place to dry the film. <br /><br />I live down a dirt road whether or not the steam from the shower does anything remains to be seen, but I haven't risked it yet!</p>