How to light a model and car?

<p>"I have nothing to fear from the OP as I know I can probably outshoot him anytime." Kudos to you Marios, mom must be so proud of you.</p>

<p>Robert, I'm sure you're an excellent photographer; but I sincerely hope you are not a teacher. You're answer to 'how do I do this,' is basically, 'If you don't already know, you shouldn't be doing it.'</p>

<p>"How do I learn to paint?"<br>

"How do I speak French?"<br>

"How do I play guitar?"<br>

"How do I write in iambic pentameter?"<br>

"How do I write a corporate business contract?"</p>

<p>Your answer to all of these, I suspect, would be something like, 'If you weren't born in France with one poet/guitarist/artist parent and another in business, then don't bother learning.' This is simply not the way the world works. Believe it or not, even Picasso went to art school, and Bill Gates didn't know how to write operating systems until after he started selling them. Kirk Hammett (guitarist from Metallica) took lessons from other guitar players, and most businessmen go to training conferences either as a requirement or by choice to continue to learn.</p>

<p>If this guy really is doing this as a high-paying job, then you are completely correct: he's in over his head, and shouldn't be doing it. However, those were YOUR words put into the OPs mouth; nothing he said even implied that he was getting paid. All he said was that he was taking these photos, and you made the boneheaded assumption that he's 'jumping to the end of a career path.' Which, I want to point out, is probably not the case if his 'big break' is photographing a <strong><em>sixteen year old car </em></strong>that is inexpensive enough that your average middle-management type can buy one when he hits his midlife crisis. Seriously, I can't even wrap my brain around how you came to the conclusion that this is a high-priced shoot. A new Corvette is about $50K (plus or minus) with a few options for a base model; at 16 years old (and assuming normal milage), that car probably sells for $10K-$15K, tops - maybe even less. Unless it's a special model with low miles AND in mint condition, my Taurus is worth about the same amount of money as that, and trust me: nobody is chomping at the bit to get photos of my Taurus. This is why I'm tearing into you right now; because you're ragging on this guy for doing a "big" shoot, when this car is actually less valuable than a brand new Kia.</p>

<p>Would you give the guy the same "advice" if he were photographing a Kia? Or are you just hung up on the fact that it's a Corvette? </p>

<p>I'm sorry to be rude, but the fact is that you come off less as a helpful forum member, and more as someone who is trying to discourage potential competition. If you can't add anything useful, don't post. It says that right in the forum rules. And yes, I actually am sorry - I tried to come up with a more polite way to say that, but I couldn't.</p>

<p>And if the guy sucks, let him suck. It's not your butt on the line. And believe it or not, that's how most people learn.</p>

<p>I know that there are a lot of struggling professional photographers out there and this post sounds like an amateur is trying to take food out of their mouth and asking them how to do it...<br>

My 2 cents</p>

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<p ><a name="00YyaG"></a><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5611905">Pascal Burel</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub2.gif" alt="" /></a>, Jul 01, 2011; 10:26 a.m.</p>

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<p>I know that there are a lot of struggling professional photographers out there and this post sounds like an amateur is trying to take food out of their mouth and asking them how to do it...<br />My 2 cents</p>

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<p>Really? Because all the OP said was that he was doing a 'car shoot.' I've done a lot of 'portrait shoots' for family members ... do you think I took food out of a photographer's mouth when I did that?</p>

<p>Not a single word the OP used implied that there was any money changing hands. That phrasing has all been added by other people.</p>

<p>Besides ... being a semi-working photographer myself, I can honesty say that if some shlub that just learned is better than you are, then you deserve to lose the job. It's your fault for not being better than him. That's why I don't work full time - because there are people in the area that are better than me, either at marketing, image making, or both. We're talking about a business - not some boy's club where you deserve to get paid purely because your title says so.</p>

 

<p>I think what the original question highlights is the current need for instant gratification. So many posts are "how do I shoot this or that, as if it were possible to learn any aspect of photography online, without being hands on. I think for any kind of photography the best way to learn the technical side of things is either school or assisting. Photography is often about problem solving, in order to do this, one needs to know how to light/shoot/ etc thing in different ways. Nobody wants to put in the time to actually learn because it takes time, which no one seems to have. Every body wants to be a pro yesterday, so they shoot garbage and charge nothing for it. Rates are falling, competition is high, and the level of photography that we are seeing published, used in ads etc, is so low. No wonder the industry is in shambles. I have nothing against the OP going out and shooting and asking questions, but asking "How do I shoot this?" does not seem very educational for him. This is my old school take on things, from a nowhere-near-pro guy who's been assisting for 3 years, so take it as most of what one can read online: with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>I have never shot a car professionally before, but based on the encouragement in this thread, I am going to attempt doing just that. Pro auto photographers charging five and six figure shoot fee, watch out!</p>

<p>Seriously speaking, the guys hiring pro photographers are typically art directors with a lot of experience and a keen eye. They dont hire photographers from Craigslist, or local classifieds. A photographer with appropriate experience and portfolio has absolutely nothing to fear the wannabees. Auto companies have tens, if not hundreds, of millions dollars in advertising budget. They dont need to skimp on $50K and ruin their 10 million dollar campaign.</p>

<p>On the other hand if OP can practice and deliver the results that a Pro does, more power to him, and the $$$ are highly justified.</p>

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<p>Here is a useful link about how to shoot cars+model</p>

<p>http://blog.profoto-usa.com/?p=3024</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Zack....if we were all expert mind readers, as you seem to think you are, we would never have needed this thread at all.</p>

<p>But since you are not, please don't attribute your unfounded guesses to me.</p>

<p>It would be really helpful if the OP would come back and explain the shoot he proposes in some detail.....Robert</p>

<p>I understand Robert's point, on accepting a job, then trying to figure out how to do it. I also understand that if you don't want to offer any advice, then don't..<br>

I am a commercial photographer who has shot cars and products for ad agencies. The biggest asset with doing high end jobs is you usually have a team of people helping, not just the equipment and know-how.<br>

That being said, this doesn't sound like a high end project. It also sounds like fun. Awhile back I was in Lake Tahoe around early evening and a couple was enjoying the sunset, leaning against their custom built "57" Chevy. I grabbed my camera and took a few shots. I couldn't believe how nice they looked, without all the bells and whistles, and I wish I could locate them to show you all. Sometimes simplicity is the best solution....<br>

Brandon, try to create or use softlight (before sunset..the car is already red) on the dominate side you're shooting...and fill in the rest.. Also, it's hard to notice a car or any other product if a woman in a bikini is in front of it, so the nicer she's lit, the better....some of the other posters have attached links to help.<br>

There are a lot of cars out there to experiment with before you do your actual shoot. Have fun and kick butt </p>

<p>I understand Robert's point, on accepting a job, then trying to figure out how to do it. I also understand that if you don't want to offer any advice, then don't..<br>

I am a commercial photographer who has shot cars and products for ad agencies. The biggest asset with doing high end jobs is you usually have a team of people helping, not just the equipment and know-how.<br>

That being said, this doesn't sound like a high end project. It also sounds like fun. Awhile back I was in Lake Tahoe around early evening and a couple was enjoying the sunset, leaning against their custom built "57" Chevy. I grabbed my camera and took a few shots. I couldn't believe how nice they looked, without all the bells and whistles, and I wish I could locate them to show you all. Sometimes simplicity is the best solution....<br>

Brandon, try to create or use softlight (before sunset..the car is already red) on the dominate side you're shooting...and fill in the rest.. Also, it's hard to notice a car or any other product if a woman in a bikini is in front of it, so the nicer she's lit, the better....some of the other posters have attached links to help.<br>

There are a lot of cars out there to experiment with before you do your actual shoot. Have fun and kick butt. </p>

<p>Natural light is your only hope for the car, as has been pointed out. Of course, the light that is best for the car may not be the best for your model, so you'll need some of those strobes to light her up. Just watch your placement and angles or you'll spill light onto the car, thus spoiling the sky's magic.</p><p><img src="http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/128751063/large.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="473" /></p><p>The window of opportunity at sunset will come and go quickly if you're trying to do everything yourself (take a shot, adjust the lights, repeat, repeat, repeat... oops, it's dark). If you won't have an assistant, then know ahead of time what your lighting scheme is going to be (distance, power, flag positions, all of it). This will reduce the fumbling / experimentation to a minimum and you can just concentrate on getting the shot.</p><p>Something you can try if you have a second body is mounting it on a tripod that is absolutely immovable. Then you can shoot the model from that angle when the sun is higher in the sky. When the sun dips you can shoot the car without the model even being in the frame. The post production will require some careful blending in Photoshop but the result can be very good. You can even light the car with a softbox or gridspot, moving the light between frames, sort of a light painting thing. This Viper was shot in near-darkness with that method using radio triggers to fire both the camera and flash (about 15-20 frames blended in Photoshop):</p><p><img src="http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/121266126/large.jpg" alt="" /></p><p>Note that some people <em>do</em> pay well to have older cars shot. :)</p><p>Finally, I'm not sure about your choice of background. I think the car and the girl will be quite enough to look at without farms and horses in the frames, especially given the type of car and the bikini thing. I think something more plain that does not compete with (or at least compliments) the subject is in order.</p><p>Have fun.</p>

<p>This is to give you a clearer idea of how the Viper was shot (these are some of the actual frames that made up the image). I would have posted it above but the editing time ran out before I located this animation I made for a presentation back in March. I've only supplied a link since the image is too wide for Photo.net's format.</p>

<p>http://www.pbase.com/image/132423224/original</p>

<p>A single SB-80dx and a Strobies grid spot attachment did the trick.</p>

<p>There's a lot to learn from thirty-odd replies. Here's one more.<br>

Leave the lights at home. Load up sticky dusters for the bodywork, shellac for the tyres and 500 kilograms of iron weights to compress the suspensions.<br>

You can't light saucepans and cars - they just pick up their surroundings. Get to some somewhere where the skyline is low and when the horizon is brighter than the sky overhead. Logistics rule out dawn, dusk is overdone, stormy weather (scotland) is best but you would need a lot of shammy (chamois) leather for the drops and a heater for the model.</p>

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<p ><a name="00Yyi5"></a><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1487895">Robert Cossar</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Subscriber" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub7.gif" alt="" /><img title="Frequent poster" src="../v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Jul 01, 2011; 06:19 p.m.</p>

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<p>Zack....if we were all expert mind readers, as you seem to think you are, we would never have needed this thread at all.<br>

But since you are not, please don't attribute your unfounded guesses to me.</p>

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<p>Robert, I only attributed your unfounded guesses to you. I took full credit for my own unfounded guesses, and even admitted that they may very well be wrong. As far as your passive-aggressive stab at me ... didn't your mother teach you that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all?</p>

<p>Normally I wouldn't even justify your comments with a reply, but since I had something else to say it seemed only fair to let you know why I am ignoring you from here on out.</p>

<p>Howard, your posts are extremely helpful. Not being a great post-processor (processer?), it's amazing to see how Photoshop can help overcome an otherwise limited bag of equipment, provided the subject is static. Those photos look fantastic.</p>

<p>But I should probably point out that the 500 horsepower Viper GTR isn't exactly your average 'older car' ;) Neither is the ... other one. Is that a modernized Chevy custom? Whatever it is, I want it. Bad.</p>

 

<p>Howard said:</p>

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<p>A single SB-80dx and a Strobies grid spot attachment did the trick.</p>

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<p>Bravo! Excellent work! Thanks for sharing that insightful animated sequence. It just goes to show what can be done with a creative vision, simple tools, and expert execution! Well done!</p>

Zach and Ralph, thanks. I wish I could take credit for the technique but others have done it before as well as better. I am indebted to Ken Brown who first drew my attention to his long exposure method of light painting, and he will always be better at it than I am. I decided early on that multiple, blended exposures were better suited to what I wanted to do and I continue to use that trick when it applies.<br><br>

 

Zach, the first car is a '58 Vette that's been outfitted with a modern chassis, power train, instrumentation and safety equipment -- all adapted from the Z6 generation (I think, I don't have the spec sheet in front of me). It's a very potent package, one that will leave the owners of those funny little foreign cars (like Porche) pondering its disappearing tail lights. :)

<p>So what you're saying, Howard, is that it's basically a brand-new Corvette with old body panels?</p>

Yeah, I guess you could say that. They call them "Resto Mods", among other things. Considered an anathema to the purists who think it's a sacrilege to "defile" and old car this way... but I think they're great. You get the best of both worlds: classic styling and modern performance.<br><br>

 

Another view:<br><br>

 

 

<img src="http://www.pbase.com/ho72/image/128658322/large.jpg" alt="" width="800" "" />

<p>Where's Brandon?!</p>

<p>That car is so clean and shiny that it looks like a model!</p>

<p>I think my new goal in life is to have one of these built from a first-gen GTO. I bet you could probably cram an M5 under those body panels ;)</p>

<p>Another awesome shot, Howard! I assume that's a daylight exterior, exposed for the reflected clouds and sky (and underexposing the ground/asphalt?), shot in an area with a fairly clutter-free horizon?</p>

<p>By the way, I love the whole idea of resto mods. I have no attachment to having matching engine block VINs or any of that collector stuff. I'll take a classic muscle car shell with a modern electronic fuel/ignition system over that "vintage" stuff any day!</p>

<p>This thread is very enlightening, especially as I'm about to shoot a bright red 59 Corvette, a matching 59 red Razzle 110B and a dark haired model. The Corvette and camera are the same vintage, but girl is much younger.... to keep it simple, I'm only gonna use a Fuji X100 with off camera flash. The outcome will hopefully favour the camera.</p>

<p> </p>