Can a living really be made from landscape photography?

 

<p>Hi,<br>

<br /> Not sure how to frame this, but here goes......</p>

<p>I have wanted to be a landscape photographer since I was about 7 years old (now 28), but always been told there is no money in it by family and later friends & people in the business, I "repressed" my passion many times over the years when it would swell up and pursued the comparatively safe & steady world of software development instead.</p>

<p>Not being boastful or anything, but I am really good at building software - the problem is I have less and less interest in doing this as the years pass by and am already finding it hard to turn on my laptop each day, its a means to an end but think if I do this for to much longer I'll crack up.</p>

<p>Recently I am have been spending more and more time experimenting with landscape shots using my 2nd hand Cannon 400d / xti, my shots are pretty bad (terrible actually) & I've a lot to learn but the more I practice the more I notice myself improving - little by little, for about the last year all I can think about is getting out there, take more shots, practice practice practice.....not to be dramatic but its becoming all consuming & I am at the point where I can either "beat this down" inside me again or actually pursue it.</p>

<p>I am also at the point where I feel my equipment is starting to hold me back, this may be a physiological barrier, but my 18-55mm IS kit lens is very soft around the edges & two landscape photographers have told me I really need a full frame camera such as the Canon 5D to get the type of shots I am after (extreme panoramic, low light / star trail).</p>

<p>A 5D + L lens is going to run me at least $3400, even more urgently I feel that I desperately need to attend some workshops and get some pointers, many things I don't fully get, however landscape workshops seem to start at $1200 and go up from there (I am now in the SF bay area). I've thought about assisting local photographers free of charge in return for some tuition, but they mainly do school, wedding, family & studio type work which is cool, but not my cup of tea.</p>

<p>I am not wealthy and have some pretty big loans to pay off from a previous business venture, so while I can spend the money - its represents a massive sum in my little world.</p>

<p>Even if I invest all this money & time, word around the campfire tells me that I stand very little chance of ever making a single cent in return - landscape is hyper competitive, very small / limited market. So while this is my longstanding passion, I also have to keep my two feet firmly on the ground and pay my bills in the long term, even if it means working a job I dislike.</p>

<p>Just putting the question out there, to far more experienced people than me:<br /> <br /> Do you think it is possible to earn a decent living by pursuing landscape photography?<br /> <br /> Do you think the spend on equipment and / or classes are warranted or is there another route?<br /> <br /> To the landscape photographers, how did you get your "start"?</p>

<p>Hope I don't sound "whiny" or like I want to go out and start charging people money right away without any skills, I realize I've a lot to learn before I can even begin to think about making profits here.</p>

 

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<p><em>"Not being boastful or anything, but I am really good at building software - the problem is I have less and less interest in doing this as the years pass by and am already finding it hard to turn on my laptop each day, its a means to an end but think if I do this for to much longer I'll crack up."</em></p>

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<p>John, dry spells happens to photographers too, especially when no income is generated from their work which they depend on. </p>

<p>Given a choice, I would stay with software and devote my chutzpah to it. Photography is fun until your next meal depends on it. </p>

<p>Landscape photography is very pleasurable and artistically worthwhile. But as a business …<br>

First the good news – you live in the USA! As far as I am aware, this country has the best market for this genre in the world. In Britain, where I live and whose market I know the best as a now semi-retired professional photographer, things are not so good. I can think of a small handful of photographers (including Joe Cornish and Charlie Waite) who appear to make a full-time living from landscape, I suspect on the basis of their work being a labour of love and of their being willing to put in a lot more time for a given return than people would in other professions. Aside from that, the genre suffers from factors which certainly apply in other countries too – there is a widespread idea that “anyone can do it”, there is a mass of work around by enthusiasts, some of which truly could have been done by anyone (it seems to show no awareness of lighting and the need to get up at godawful hours to find the best light), and even the better work is very often clearly motivated by an interest in craft skills and does not have much to say in conceptual terms. Throw in the fact that the stock photography has collapsed to the level where it is hardly possible to make a living from it, and the overall business outlook is very poor. I think professional landscape photography can only really be done as an adjunct to some other hopefully more lucrative type of work. Are you aware of the Westons (Edward, Brett, Cole, Kim)? Their examples are informative. In short, my answer to your question is no (although an investment in at least one good prime lens would not be wasted) – if you nonetheless feel totally driven to do landscape work, and choose to disregard commercial factors, so be it!</p>

 

<p>John, fortunately you're really good at something that has a lot of money in it, and you can do it on a laptop for portability. Why not do both? I have a friend from college who's a developer and has a very keen interest in scuba and underwater photography. He spends months at a time on trips to far off places, dives a few hours a day and still gets most of a day of work in.</p>

<p>I'll be honest with you, yes there are people who make their money on landscape photography, but not a lot of them. Being a hobbyist - a dedicated one, mind you - frees you to be creative without the worries. Pick some place you want to shoot - national parks out west or whatever - plan a trip, rent an RV, get a change of scenery, wake up to shoot at dawn, take a hike, work several hours and then shoot until sunset.</p>

<p>Can a living be made from landscape photography? The answer must be yes because there are a handful of people who do. Similarly there are a handful of professional racing drivers, rock musicians and baseball payers who make a living from what they do. However the vast majority of the people who engage in those activities can't make a living from it and that also applies to the vast majority of landscape photographers.</p>

<p>Keep your day job and do it on the side. If you can't make enough money from your photography to live on (which is by far the most likely situation) at least you'll have a roof over your head and you won't starve. You might even have health insurance.</p>

<p>If you did make a living from your photography you'd likely be spending 20% of your time taking pictures and 80% of your time editing, marketing your work and trying to drum up sales. Nobody is going to beat a path to your door even if you are very good. In fact a course in marketing might even be more useful than a course in photography. Most of the really good landscape photographers are self taught. Most of them suplement their income by writing or running workshops too. Few get by on image sales alone.</p>

<p>Obviously it can. I have met a couple of people, and have one friend, making very very good livings from landscape photos. All of them concentrate on high end print sales at galleries they own themselves. My friend was doing US$20K a month in sales out of a nearby hotel before he launched his gallery, an then it really took off. A guy I met in Colorado had a nice gallery in an old mining town and was selling tons of large prints. He told me he grossed US$80K off of his Epson A4 printer the year before. (Just a sideline to his main biz of large prints.)<br>

All of these shooters are living in towns with large flows of tourists. They have good backlog of negs and concentrate almost no time to shooting new stuff. It seems to be mainly about printing and sales.</p>

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<p>Keep your day job</p>

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<p>is really good advice. A hobby is for relaxation, a profession is for work. When you switch the two, the hobby becomes a profession and you're back where you started and much poorer to boot, unless you are one of the few, the proud, the ...</p>

<p>You should be aware that Ansel Adams, perhaps the most famous landscape shooter of all. Didn't make a dime, until rather late in his life. And In fact became more celebrated after his death.</p>

<p>Do keep your job and keep photography as a hobby. Invest in lenses and equipment, but don't allow your budget to depend on any income made with the equipment. There's nothing wrong with pursuing your hobby to the full extent of what your heart desires (and your wallet allows), but I do think it would be a mistake to go for a full time career in landscape photography for all the reasons mentioned above. Sometimes unlikely career changes work, Michael Crichton was a Harvard educated medical doctor who traded a career in medicine for a career as a writer. It paid off for him, but for most people it doesn't.</p>

<p><em>"I have wanted to be a landscape photographer since I was about 7 years old"</em><br />Not sure how hard you thought about this, but your post mainly discusses aquiring equipment, rather than talking about the landscape industry itself. Maybe there IS a way to earn a living from landscape photography, but first you should know exactly where that market for your services is.<br>

Is it in Commercial Landscaping companies, Real Estate, interior/exterior design firms, building/property management, Home & Garden magazines ? There is nothing wrong with specializing. Most photographers specialize in some branch of photography, thent augment it with other services.<br>

<br />In my opinion you should decide to become a Photographer first, specializing in Landscape photography. Determine where and what is the size of your market. How are you going to offer services to them. What is it about landscaping that you are drawn to. How are you going to market your services. Are there other photographers in your area that do, or have done this type of thing ? After you get all that down then you can start thinking about purchasing equipment.</p>

<p>Visit or write to some landscaping companies, or nurseries and ask them how they decice on landscaping patterns. If they have a catalog ask them for a copy. Talk to some Property/Building managers and ask them why they decided on the gardening pattern infront of their building. First you got to get your foot in the door, before you can start offering services.</p>

<p>Property Mangement is being thought at schools these days so my advice is to take a couple of courses in that, or better yet get yourself a degree in Property Management specializing in Landscaping.</p>

<p>As others have suggested: keep your day job. Meanwhile, have you exhibited your work, in print or online? If not, that may be a good testing ground. You may get some good feedback, and may even sell a few pieces. The process of finding a place to exhibit, editing your work, matting and framing, installing, etc. can all teach you something that you will encounter as a pro. While you may "like" photography, these are the grinds a pro will have to go through to make a living.</p>

<p>"Trying to make a career out of photography is a sure way to ruin a perfectly lovely hobby."<br>

- source unknown</p>

<p>Not that this necessarily would be something that you or anyone else for that matter might consider landscape photography, but I read a wonderful article yesterday in Photographers Forum magazine (part of which is available online) of an interview of Ken Light, a social documentary photographer and his "go it his way" practice of his photography. I think it's a wonderful article to read for aspiring photographers. After that article is another of Mitch Dobrowner who returned to his roots doing b&w landscapes. Both great articles and probably a good read for you at this point.</p>

<p><em>I have wanted to be a landscape photographer since I was about 7 years old ......</em><br>

<em>my shots are pretty bad (terrible actually) ......</em></p>

<p>Blasphemy coming up - Is there something that you wanted just a little less than Landscape photography, that you are significantly better at?<br>

Keep the day job, drop photography and do something you're good at. Money isn't everything, but it sure takes the pain out of poverty. :)</p>

<p>I'm certainly not good enough to sell mine but if I turned my photos into a business it would pull the fun out of it. Then what would I do for fun ...... maybe dabble in software development - there's a vacancy coming up I hear ;-)</p>

<p>John,<br>

I'm a landscape photographer living in Yosemite (El Portal), but make my living as an elementary school teacher. In the past I have assisted with workshops offered at the Ansel Adams Gallery from Michael Frye and regularly lead photo walks for park service in the summers. At home I do all my own printing, matting, and framing. The professionals I know not only sell photographs but also regularly teach workshops. It really helps to have your work represented somewhere such as the Ansel Adams Gallery, but I still hear that that alone doesn't cut it. I sell a handful of photographs each year, but usually to other locals. I think it really helps to specialize in a specific region. For example, I try to photograph the Merced River just outside the park throughout the year and have years of images. Still I can't see making a living at selling photographs especially when one takes into account the cost of health insurance. I think most important is to have passion for your subjects and be true to yourself. If I really wanted to sell more photographs I would take cheesy pics of the Ahwahnee Hotel or the Chapel in the Valley. Unfortunately, the masses love that stuff. <br>

I don't think your equipment is not holding you back. I used to shoot 6x9 film and now use a cropped sensor (nikon d300). A few years back Ted Orland (who assisted Ansel Adams back in the day) won a award at the Yosemite Renaissance using a Holga. To really make outstanding prints spend the money to take a lab based workshop. I took a class from Charlie Cramer on fine art printing, and it made more of a difference than any new lens. Still I wouldn't mind a nikon d3x, but for that cost I could go to Antarctica or even Mars. <br>

<p>First, @ Michael Chang: "Chutzpah" means nerve or gumption, not "energies" which I assume is what you meant to say. That's the end of our Yiddish primer for today.<br>

@ the OP: work is work because if it were all fun and play no one would be us for it. Even though many of us who love our jobs (I count myself as one of the lucky people in that category), find that much of it is mundane, or dull, or frustrating. But I add to the work life wonderful side ventures and hobbies. In terms of photography, a passionate hobby of mine, I too enjoy landscape subjects and also wildlife. I build travel around photography very often and have a "thing" for getting myself to difficult to reach locations which is where I find photography most exciting for me: the Bearing Sea off Alaska, Iceland's Westfjords, hunting lava flow on Hawaii, shooting in the remost reaches of Costa Rica's Osa peninsula. Here at home, I do the same thing: look for opportunities to see NYC from unique perspectives by gaining access to restricted areas whenever I can arrange it (like the shuttered buildings and chained off sections of Ellis Island). <br>

My point is, develop your passion for photography in addition to your current job. They aren't mutually exclusive. Making your living as a photographer is brutal from what I understand and increasingly difficult. It sounds from your post as if you are an avid amateur still developing fundamental skills. That isn't a position of stregnth to be in to go professional/full time. Do the hard work of getting better, increasing your knowledge and skills, continue considering and developing a business plan if you like for the future that incorporates more photography into your life, and if some new equipment floats your boat and is within your budget, fine. <br>

But you need to take this step by step--and simply buying a king's ransom of new equipment and quitting your day job to work for free for someone is not likely to lead you to where you want to be and will potentially be financially destructive.</p>

<p>Great (landscape)photography can be made from a living.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the helpful answers!</p>

<p>Past of my motivation for this post comes from post vacation blues & having visted the Peter Lik gallery in Vegas last week, I sat down with one of the sales people who had there inventory system open and as they where taking over the course of about 5 mins I seen literally 6+ sales happening / updating on the screen or about $40k in sales.</p>

<p>Obviously I am not trying to compare my photos to PL's or thinking of making a fast buck, but it did get me thinking that there is a market here as someone must of being buying them.</p>

<p>Upon reflection I think for me, I need to change the type of software I build to get more satisfaction from the "day job" and keep landscape photography as a hobby as most have suggested, also stick with the equipment I have.</p>

<p>Lot of good advice here, thanks again!</p>

<p>I've met a few photographers who make their whole living on wilderness landscape and nature photos. They all said it's more than a full time job, 80-100 hours a week pursuing one's passion. Dealing with stacks of travel receipts and mandatory time spent on business concerns. Photographically needing to stay competitive and thinking of new approaches in your work. Planning sunrises and sunsets while studying topo maps. Logistics of getting to the locations, and the timing to be there and set up, ready. Sleeping in the back of your truck to wake up at 3AM and start hiking.<br>

I did it for a couple of years as a side business and it was great while it lasted. But I was hesitant to make a permanent go of it. It all really appealed to me, and still does. Perhaps again, when circumstances and fate will allow. </p>

<p>"...Ansel Adams, perhaps the most famous landscape shooter of all. Didn't make a dime, until rather late in his life. And In fact became more celebrated after his death."<br>

Not true unless one measures photographic success by NY auction celebrity. And fwiw he was as much a printer and teacher and conservationist as "shooter."<br>

In the fifties he taught photography at San Francisco School of the Arts (or similar name..it became San Francisco Art Institute). Taught there with Minor White, who he'd recruited. That was essentially the birth of Zone System teaching. I don't know much about his commercial success prior to the fifties, but as a member of f64 he was probably doing photography for money way back then, like his fellow members.<br>

He was doing fine in the mid-sixties with print sales, certainly partially due to his embrace of and by Sierra Club. He did fine executive portraiture and industrial photography (for annual reports). If you are familiar with his books you know this.</p>

<p>I have a real job, but also a small (very small) photo business involved with doing prints for gallery sales. I'd like to echo what's already been said, which is basically keep your day job and pursue landscape photography as a serious hobby - then if you start selling some work, great. Even on a small scale, the business side of it - keeping receipts, logs of mileage, tax records, etc. - is a bit of a pain and takes some of the joy away. I think I was actually happier as a photographer BEFORE I started to make a few dollars on the side. </p>

<p>But if you do choose to try and make a living, best of luck. There are some seriously good landscape photogs out there (just take a look on PNet - browse the galleries for "landscapes") so you will be facing some heavy competition.</p>

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<p>...Ansel Adams, perhaps the most famous landscape shooter of all. Didn't make a dime, until rather late in his life.</p>

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<p>Well, he did make some money in his early years, but probably not more than what a hobbyist would make today.</p>

<p>http://www.hcc.commnet.edu/artmuseum/anseladams/details/moonrise.html</p>

 

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<p>When he was a young creative photographer, his original prints sold for $10, and in the 1960s for $50 - $100. The price for a print of Moonrise in the early 1970s was $500. Then the value of the creative photographs of Ansel Adams skyrocketed. At an auction in 1981, the sale of Moonrise set a record price for a photograph - $71,500!</p>

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<p>I know of a couple of lucky collectors who bought AA's 8"x10" prints at $10 a pop, right at Yosemite in the 60s.<em><br /></em></p>

<p>John, don’t give up. I have read through most of your responses and the wisdom of those who are in the real world of photography cannot be ignored. Yet there is a phrase that I just love to quote:<br>

"If it has been done before, it is probably possible".<br>

I am very much like you. I have had a great occupation for the last 35 years and can identify with your statement that you have great confidence in the skill that you have developed these past years. I was able to afford the 5D that you want and can say that I don't regret purchasing it, but I am no where close to making a living with my landscape photography. Rather something better has occurred. I now go to my old job with an added enthusiasm that I never had prior to purchasing the equipment that I wanted. It sounds like your are considerably younger than I and perhaps you might be tempted to wait to "officially" enter the field, but I would challenge that self constraint. Once you have made a type of commitment, your focus of enthusiasm will shift. You will find that you have a new stride in the same old work setting. You don't have to jump to the expensive 5D. You can do very well with something less expensive at the start. Check estate sales and the Internet services for some quality equipment. Tell your family that you have some specific Christmas / Birthday requests. Enter some stuff into craft sales or into consignment shops and don't be disappointed if nothing much happens the first few years. Take the time to expand your knowledge and meet other artists. Just keep plugging away. Make it a goal to earn your 5D with sales or photo services. Once you purchase your 5D you could sell the older stuff, but I bet you wont. Eventually something will pop. It is hard to predict. Just make certain that your wife, (or significant other), can adapt to your new true love. There could be some potential conflicts there.</p>

<p>John,<br>

I saw your portfolio on this site--not enough to draw a conclusion. Can you provide a link to more of your work? Many people here have passed judgement and given you an answer, but I think we need to see what your best work is. As a musician, I'd never tell a young musician if they could make it unless they actually played something for me. Otherwise I'd be guessing.<br>

Scott</p>

<p>Robert that tale about Ansel Adams not making money before striking it rich is false.<br>

I am holding a copy of his "Artificial Light Photography" signed by him in 1969 (a gift for helping him load his truck with sacks of hypo)..it's got several of his commercial photos (for Hewlett Packard and an interior decorator, for example)...also a very handsome portraits, executive portraits, and the interior of San Francisco's Hotel St Francis cocktail lounge...most made with a Hasselblad/80mm but some with a 4X5 Kodak View (subsequently became Calumet).<br>

I don't think he spent much time as an "amateur," and when he joined f64 in 1932 he became part of a group that was mostly comprised of people who were professionals (eg Imogene Cunningham). </p>

<p>When people talk about how impossible a dream is, they are rarely being kind..they usually intend to crush that dream, perhaps one they themselves have walked away from. IMO some individuals are better off taking the big risk, running away from home, whatever, dedicating themselves to the dream (and maybe revising the dream when they find they like another version better).<br>

<br />The world is full of photographers who make money doing the work. Visit any tourist destination and you'll see tourist galleries packed with garish "scenic" photography that sell well. Wildly colored skys, the usual red rocks from Arizona. seascapes. quaint architecture. Horses, ducks.<br>

<br />IMO it might be a good idea to get competent with other aspects of photography, such as portraiture. Personally it terrifies me, which is one reason I've stuck with it...the challenge.</p>