Close focusing with Medium Format

<p>I've been using a Mamiya 7 recently and love it except for the fact that I can't get in too close to my subject with it (85mm lens)! Is this a common problem with medium format, and would switching to a wide lens (50mm) help? Any MF cameras that are better at this than the Mamiya?</p>

<p>Thanks =)</p>

<p>Rangefinders in general focus not that close. Switching to another focal length won't improve things.</p>

<p>MF cameras with bellows focusing (RB/RZ67 SLRs, Mamiya C-series TLRs and others) have a much closer minimum focus distance than "regular" MF/35mm cameras with helical focusing. And for most system SLRs there are extension tubes get close (or closer) very easily. If you want close focusing capabilities a rangefinder like the Mamiya 7 is the wrong tool.</p>

<p>Rob: i have been using an rb67 pros for some time now and am amazed how close i can get with a 50mm lens on it. There might be extension tubes available for youre camera so you can get closer . I don"t know. The rb has a bellows in it so i can get pretty close with any lens. There very cheap to purchase now and really compare very favorably to hasselblad and other high quality medium format cameras. They are quite big and heavy and should be used with a tripod. I think that they really excel at close up photography. Don</p>

<p>Rob: i have been using an rb67 pros for some time now and am amazed how close i can get with a 50mm lens on it. There might be extension tubes available for youre camera so you can get closer . I don"t know. The rb has a bellows in it so i can get pretty close with any lens. There very cheap to purchase now and really compare very favorably to hasselblad and other high quality medium format cameras. They are quite big and heavy and should be used with a tripod. I think that they really excel at close up photography. Don</p>

<p>All rangefinder cameras, from Leicas to Mamiya 7's, have problems with both close focusing and close framing even with parallax correction. It is simply not their strong suit. You need to choose your tools, yes, cameras are "just" tools, for the job at hand. Hammers are poor tools for fine finishing, saws do poorly at tightening screws, and rangefinder cameras do not do closeups well. All the SLR MF cameras can be adapted to close focus. The Rollei 66 and Mamiya RB/RZ have bellows. You can attach bellows or an extension tube to a Hasselblad. Also... I am not aware of an 85mm lens for the M7, I assume you mean the 80mm. The M7 is, in a sense, a specialized camera, terrific for landscape and travel work, pretty good for portraits, but pretty bad for macro and close ups. The advantage it has is light weight and superb lenses, but it is not a real "system" camera like a Mamiya 6x7 SLR or Hasselblad. Good luck.</p>

<p>Just by way of example, my Bronica focuses down to about 2.5 feet and that gives a field of view approx 10" across. This is much tighter than you can get with a Mamiya 7. Any closer or smaller than that and you need to use some form of aid- which can be</p>

 

<ul>

<li>A macro lens that is designed to get you closer/smaller field of view. With some brands they get down to 1:1 so a fov of maybe 2 1/4" though most don't get that far.</li>

<li>Bellows either as an accessory or integral to the camera/lens</li>

<li>Using one of several extension tubes depending on the magnification required. I've found these less than easy to use.</li>

<li>You can use a close up lens attachment but I think the people serious about close-up would tend to ignore that one.</li>

</ul>

<p>It helps also to use a focus rail as an alternative to moving a tripod around to establish closest focus.</p>

<p>As indicated none of these are available for the Mamiya 7/7ii. Thats because the camera, alongside other rangefinders was simply not designed to do that job. Rangefinders are great at what they do well but are simply not as flexible as MF slrs, and close-up is one of these things. I have a Mamiya 7ii and have made much use of it despite rarely feeling that I could view it as my only or main camera on a trip.</p>

<p>Switching to a 50mm lens won't help- you can't get any closer and the wide angle gives a still larger field of view. </p>

<p>The one thing you could consider is using the excellent sharpness to crop the image after. </p>

<p> </p>

A note about the macro lens design: the design thing that turns a lens into a macro lens is that the optics are designed such that they produce good image quality at close range.<br><br>Not all macro lenses have a mount that allows close focussing (and perhaps not all lenses that have a mount that does are macro lenses), but will still need tubes or bellows.<br><br>The trick that is used in some (quite a few?) 35 mm format lenses is to change (shorten) focal length of the lens while focussing closer (internal focussing). Focus shifts due to that change in focal length, and not as much due to a change in lens to film distance. That way, you can get close without needing a mount that provides a lot of extension. A trick that is still rare in MF photograhy: it's harder to produce lenses that still perform well (though with raw computer power of today very doable), and expensive (even for already expensive MF lenses).

<p>I think I can get minimum focal distance under 5cm with some lenses and extension ring combinations on my Rollei 6008AF. Perhaps other medium format platforms can offer similar performance.</p>

You can get any lens as close as the physical make up of the lens allows (at some point, the front glass will get in the way wit most lenses). You just need to add enough extension (tubes).<br>And that's the problem with rangefinders: no extension tubes or other means to get really close, because not looking through the lens itself, parallax between viewing system and taking lens will be an enormous problem and you will lose sight of what it is you are taking photos off.<br>The Leica 35 mm rangefinders were almost the first 35 mm reflex cameras ever, by having a mirror housing and viewer into an close up attachment. I don't think such a thing is available for any of the MF rangefinders.

<p>An older Bronica (S2, S2a) can focus to a few inches with a 50mm, and I think within a foot for 75mm, which is one reason why I keep it. This has a separate focusing helical, which is a different design than most other systems. </p>

<p>"Close focusing" for a rangefinder camera, without a special attachment, is 3 or 4 feet. For a Mamiya 7 that figure is closer to 5'. You can do somewhat better with a Leica DR Summicron or a Rollei with a Rolinar (sp?) attachment. There are medium format SLRs which are ideal for closeups, some costing less than a lens for your Mamiya (e.g., Bronica). Get the right horse for this course ;-)</p>

<p>The Mamiya 7 does have a close-up adapter that allows close focusing at a fixed distance of about 16 inches or so. It's fairly limiting for close-ups, but better than nothing.</p>

<p>Best solution: get an RZ67 system to complement the m7 for portraits/closeups/long distance shots.</p>

<p>As noted above, you need something like the Mamiya RB/RZ67 or the Mamiya 'C' series TLRs. For me the RB67, being an SLR, is the better option. I shot this on my RB67. </p><div></div>

<p>I could have sworn I posted a response, I guess I never confirmed the reply.</p>

<p>Anyways, it's nice to get a consensus response, that the M7 is the wrong tool for the job. I don't do Macro photography or anything that close, and often the M7 gets me close enough, I often just find myself wanting to get in 1 or 2 feet more, enough to make the M7 annoying!</p>

<p>Used a Yashica briefly tonight, however my main problem with the waist level viewfinder is it's too difficult to use in situations where I need to raise the camera high.<br>

Honestly except for the size of it, and the fact that film is sooo expensive, 4x5 is a great camera. Can get in close, easy to focus with, and great image res.</p>

<p><em>"... my main problem with the waist level viewfinder is it's too difficult to use in situations where I need to raise the camera high."</em><br>

hold it upside down, peering up into the finder from below.</p>

<p>Clearly the M7 is the wrong tool for closeups, as has been pointed out. But if that is the only one you have and you are not ready to spend a lot of money on a new system, you could try a close-up lens. Those with two elements are actually quite good. A normal 80mm lens, or close to it, would be good to mount it on. Focusing is a problem, but if you keep the lens at infinity, you can get the exact focus from the diopter number of the lens (+2 is 0.5meters, +4 is 25cm etc). Best to stop down several stops for depth of field. Framing is also a bit of a problem and needs to be estimated. But you get a big negative and can crop to the final composition later. Clearly awkward, not the best quality etc etc, but possible.</p>

<p>Run out immediately and buy an RB67 and several lenses. Haha, there's more to it than that - you'll need one or more film backs, an instant film back (Fuji makes 3 types currently), and a prism or waist level finder (or both, each is good for different reasons). I added a QR adapter to connect to my tripod head and a strap - these cameras are totally modular, you often have to buy the parts separately. It helps to have a meter too.</p>

<p>With the extension tubes #1 & #2 together, the camera should go 1:1 or greater with lenses 170mm or shorter; this includes the 150, 140(macro), 127(soft focus), 90, 65, 50 and 37mm lenses. Slightly longer lenses such as the 180mm and 250 approach 1:1 @ 0.94:1 and 0.68:1 respectively (assuming my math is working, hah.) So there are a lot of lens choices and options, even more than I mentioned, but most are widely available and pretty darn inexpensive lately. </p>

<p>Did I mention I love my M7ii? Amazing lenses, very good built in meter, and easy to operate especially for an MF rangefinder. I like the pano adapter for 35mm film: adds more versatility. It's just not a closeup camera, as has been said, and doesn't really shine doing head shots or head&shoulders, but it's great for environmental portraits.</p>