Would you decline to shoot this wedding?

<p>First a couple of details. I am in Southern California and the wedding in question is in Northern California.<br>

In February of this year I received an email from a friend of my sister-in-law (SIL) saying that my SIL told her I would be providing photography services for her wedding and that they had booked me a room at the hotel which the wedding will be taking place. She didn't tell me the date, just that its in June -no other information provided. I immediately emailed my SIL to let her know about the email and asked why she told her friend this and asked if she had any other info. SIL replied that she had told her to contact me and hoped I could do the wedding and that she (my SIL) and her boyfriend would be paying for it as their gift to the B&G.<br>

I then replied to the friend and kindly asked her what her wedding date in June is as I already have 2 weddings that month and if I had that date available I would be happy to discuss more details with her. <br>

Next day she replies that the wedding is June 4th. It turns out I had that date available so I let her know right away and proceeded to ask her my usual questions to find out what their wedding photography needs are and suggested she look at the packages I offer to assist with deciding. It took her 6 weeks to get back to me and even then she didn't provide much information but said the very basics would be fine.<br>

In the meantime, I had several emails back and forth with my SIL trying to find out from her what, if any limit they had for how much they had planned to pay since this is their gift to friend. Took her a few weeks to respond as well and eventually about March 24 SIL replied that they could not afford my prices and was hoping to get a discount. I agreed to give a discount since she is family but the discount I offered was still too much for them and they were hoping to only spend $500 and would help pay for my flight up North. I quickly let her know that I could not do $500 that as it would end up costing me $$ which I could not afford to do. I countered with slightly higher fee and SIL finally replied on April 1st that they would pay that fee.<br>

Ok, still not what I believe I should be paid but I decided to do my SIL a favor and I felt bad because time is is almost out for the B&G to find a new photographer. On April 6th I emailed the B with my wedding contract that had all the details of what they would get for the price being paid and let her know that I needed to her and her groom to sign right away so that I could also forward it to SIL and her boyfriend to sign and get me my required deposit. Needless to say, I didn't hear back by the end of the week as I had requested.<br>

In fact, I still have not heard back from the B&G and it's now April 25th. Since SIL is their friend, on April 17 I asked her to contact her friend and light a little fire under them to get that contract back to me. I still have not heard anything. <br /><br />Since this is not a local wedding it will take additional planning including booking a flight (which only gets pricier as the date gets closer) and renting of additional equipment that I just don't have in my arsenal yet.<br>

This is not how I usually do business and I'm feeling as though they're possibly taking advantage of the fact that I'm family especially after agreeing to a huge discount. I'm seriously unsure of how to handle this. I don't want to upset my SIL and I would feel bad that the B&G had to scramble to find another photographer that would take the job at such a low price but there's nothing I can do if they don't respond. However, I don't feel I should have to scramble at the last minute to get things together.<br>

For the moment I am giving them until this Friday to respond. <br>

At this point I'm ready to respectfully decline the job. What would you do? Have you had this experience before and how did you handle it?<br>

Thank you so much for your time and suggestions. (Sorry for the run-on sentences, lol)<br>

~Shannon</p>

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<p>For the moment I am giving them until this Friday to respond. <br />At this point I'm ready to respectfully decline the job. What would you do?</p>

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<p>That seems more than reasonable.</p>

<p>Ouch - business and family - not a good mix. </p>

<p>The problem is (and it will come back to you believe me) - is that it is so close to their wedding date that if you back out now - they will have difficulty finding someone at any price for June 4. </p>

<p>The other problem is that even without a written contract - you have a verbal agreement - now put forth in writing on a public website which is goggle-able under your name. </p>

<p>At this point - I'd bite my tongue - til it bleeds... Call your SIL and tell her that here's what you will be providing and what you won't be providing. Don't e-mail, don't mail... CALL. Make sure you get the money from SIL, plus Hotel confirmation (Call Hotel) and Plane Tickets. </p>

<p>Chalk this one up to the school of hard knocks and learn from it. <br>

Dave </p>

 

<p>I agree with David about the circumstances and the red flags were everywhere right at the very beginning. Unfortunately, your decisions allowed your in law relative to get away with all this nonsense. In any event, order needs to be implemented now. Since the SIL has a boyfriend, I gather she is your husband's sister. SInce this has been made in to a family affair, why isn't he reading his sister the riot act over this and telling her to comply with your needs and requirements immediately?</p>

<p>Personally, I think this is family oriented. Period. It isn't subject to normal dealings or rational thought. Make it work, and do it with a smile on your face.<br>

However, diplomatically inform family that you cannot afford to lose money for their friend's sake in this down economy. It's tough for everyone.</p>

<p>They will be able to find the right photographer for them - a student on craigslist - by then. And, they will not have to house or fly them up, so they'll actually save money. </p>

<p>I would give them an ultimatum that by Friday if the deposit is not paid and the contract not signed, you will not be doing the wedding.</p>

<p>John has a point - you're worried about the way you might be treating your sister-in-law if you back out, but how have they been treating you? Certainly not as a professional - and that treatment won't likely end with a signed contract.</p>

<p>Walk away as respectfully as you can.</p>

<p>I would guess that the reason you haven't gotten a concrete response is because they don't really want to pay what they've agreed to. Maybe they don't have it, maybe they do. I can virtually guarantee that the money issue is the source of the contract issue. </p>

<p>With all the wifflewaffling on (to be fair) both sides, maybe they think they'll be able to plead hardship and walk on you some more. I'd say the 'friday deadline' is very reasonable, and be ready to walk. You WILL be the bad guy, but sometimes when dealing w/ family (which defines this relationship) you just have to be. Don't try to sugarcoat it anymore to preserve feelings. Sometimes you have to run, not walk, away. Be ready to specifically rationalize your reaction to the inevitable family backlash...</p>

<p>Time for a family meeting I think. No more emails. Work it out face to face.</p>

<p>I agree face to face with you Sister in Law - and the contract should be signed by the one paying the bill - not the bride and groom - i only deal with the client that writes the check. Any other details to be worked out with the B&G should be dealt with after a deposit has been made.</p>

<p>I agree with Pete. Time to have a conversation "in house" about this.</p>

<p>I have a standard response: I do not do paid work for friends and family. There is always a problem, and the photographer always gets taken advantage of. As far as favors and unpaid work: never a wedding, never in season and only for very close family, not friends of relatives. </p>

<p>$500.00 fee (or maybe slightly above according to you), and you have to pay for a flight, and you have to rent gear, and you have no assurance that the "booked" hotel room is actually paid for . . .</p>

<p>Wow, I've heard of families taking photographic relatives for a ride, but this takes the cake!</p>

<p>I think it's time for you to put your big-girl pants on and either call or visit the SIL in person and provide a solid deadline to sign the contract and pay the deposit. The B&G are not your clients the SIL is. And, I disagree that you have a verbal contract to do anything. Unless there is some sort of consideration (fee) provided, and there is agreement about the services, there is no meeting of the minds, and therefore no contract.</p>

<p>If the SIL fails to sign the contract and pay the deposit on or before your deadline, you walk. If the SIL actually comes through (which I think is unlikely based on what's happened so far), then you're stuck doing the shoot and you're certainly going to lose money. But, you allowed it to get this far, so you'll have to take your lumps.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>This isn't advice. Its merely what I would do... Have the family Pow Wow. Make clear that the time for being strung along is over and that the failure to commit makes the situation untenable and there is no obligation to proceed under such circumstances. A short deadline will be granted with unchangeable terms. All of which must be tendered by the date or the shoot goes off. That any risk of loss (such as not getting a refund on a ticket) for failing to tender all items is on the sister in law. A longer deadline is not feasible and that there will need to be enough time for a new photographer to be secured in any event. A polite follow up email or letter sent to follow up on any terms or a rejection would be sent to avoid "confusion". Unfortunately, walking also means dealing with the B&G since communications were also made with them. CYA communication would include references to failure to actaully commit to an arrangement and that an agreement was never able to be reached.</p>

<p>What a mess.</p>

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<p>I disagree that you have a verbal contract to do anything. Unless there is some sort of consideration (fee) provided, and there is agreement about the services, there is no meeting of the minds, and therefore no contract.</p>

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<p>Fess don't have to actually be "provided". Indeed, the amount of the fee in some contracts sometimes doesn't even need to be specified. A mere promise to pay is consideration. This is why wedding contracts often contain specific deadlines for specific payments before an obligation arises. That way the photographer won't be obligated if not paid by a certain point and won't have to chase the fee later on. In my post above of what I would do, I adopted your position but with some posturing to try to hedge against any contractual claim. The uncertainty of whether that would actually be upheld was why I explained my comments were not advice. Like I said, this is a mess and this aspect is just one of many reasons.</p>

<p>I very much appreciate all of the opinions and avice provided. When I started my business 2 years ago I was on this site all of the time reading and gathering information to try to do things right and be smart about it. I even made sure I had a contract for my very first wedding (which was for a friend of my own) just to be safe. Luckily, that went off without a hitch) and I am well aware that may not be the norm (this situation is case in point). <br>

I have been careful and direct with all of my clients since and it has worked out well. Though I have read the horror stories on here and elsewhere about working for family, I obviously didn't take that advise as seriously as I should have. My own fault for trying to accommodate and then some. A lot of lessons learned here.<br>

I think what I will do is contact my SIL and let her know I need the contract and deposit from her by Friday or I will have to respectfully decline and explain why. I will try to be kind but firm as possible. If they can provide what I reqeust I will happily do the wedding and give my best as usual. Unfortunately, talking in person is not an option since she also lives up North and there are no upcoming opportunities for us to get together before the wedding date.<br>

After this mess I will be, once again, revising my contract and will be laying down a few more ground rules with every new potential client.<br>

Again, thank you so much for your replies.</p>

<p>You're afraid of offending your sister in law. But she doesn't seem at all worried about offending you. Commiting you to shooting the wedding without asking you first. Saying that she will pay your bill as a present, then not agreeing to your discounted price. It sounds like she has a real cheek.</p>

<p>If I were you I would just say that as you haven't heard from them and that they are not happy with the specially discounted price, you think it would be better not to mix family and work, and it would be better if they got someone else to shoot the wedding. Try to be helpful and suggest some other people they might contact.</p>

<p>If you go ahead, the way they are treating you, you can be fairly sure it will end in tears, and will cause even more family friction and rupture than if you break it off now. If they think they can treat you badly and shaft you now, just think what they will be like at the wedding, and when they go through the pictures they will want blood. Avoid unreasonable clients like the plague.</p>

<p>The mistake was ever to countenance doing it in the first place. Being committed to a wedding without telling you about it should have been enough warning, you should have drawn a line then. Better late than never, use the opportunity of their lack of response to draw a line now.</p>

<p>As for discounts, it's not even as though you would be shooting the wedding for a close relative or a close friend of your own. It's just a friend of your sister in law. This person is neither your relative nor your direct friend. Do you even know her? Your sister in law is in effect asking for a special favour, while treating you badly simultaneously.</p>

<p>Just tell them you don't want to do it.</p>

<p>p.s. that's assuming that you didn't leave them with a copy of the contract already signed by you, and that you haven't said/written anywhere 'yes, I will shoot the wedding'.</p>

<p>Simon, no I have not signed the contract. I always sign last and let them know it's not a done deal until I have the deposit and I provide a copy of a fully executed contract to them.<br>

Thank you for your advise as well.</p>

<p>I'm curious about something. If you're doing business with your sister-in-law, why do you need the Bride and Groom to sign the contract? They're not your client.</p>

<p>Ted, I have never been in a situation like this and thought since they were the ones ultimately getting the photos they should know and agree to the details so that they don't come back and ask for anything later.<br>

Again, another lesson learned and a mistake I won't repeat.</p>

<p>I'd always get the bride and groom to sign. They're the ones you really responsible towards, it's their wedding. The fact that someone else may be paying or organising is another matter - it's good to get a written commitment from the payer to pay, but it needs to be clear that the B&G are the ones you're responible to. Otherwise things could get messy.</p>

<p>Perhaps in this type of situation, it would be better for them purchase a "gift card" or "gift certificate" for a specified dollar amount and only deal with the Bride and Groom?</p>

<p>Simon, thanks for that additional info. My first instinct was to include them since they would be the one's in the end unhappy but then I was questioning it because they, thus far, have not seemed to put a lot of priority in getting me the information and contract needed.<br>

New question for you or anyone if I may... When a B&G come to you for their wedding and after you send the contract for them to sign (assuming you haven't signed it yet) and they say to you, "Oh, btw my Uncle is paying so i'll try to get the deposit for you as soon as possible". Do you then tell them you need to revise the contract to include the Uncle? I haven't had this situation but now after this current dilemna I'm in my busy little mind is creating possible scenarios to prepare for. ;)</p>

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<p>When a B&G come to you for their wedding and after you send the contract for them to sign (assuming you haven't signed it yet) and they say to you, "Oh, btw my Uncle is paying so i'll try to get the deposit for you as soon as possible". Do you then tell them you need to revise the contract to include the Uncle?</p>

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<p>I wouldn't include the Uncle in the contract. The only reason you might theoretically want to is if you think the bride and groom might not have enough money to pay and you might want to sue the Uncle. In practise, it's unlikely that you're really going to sue the Uncle directly. But your real lever to get them to get him to pay is that if he or the couple don't pay, then they may not get their wedding photographed. So getting the Uncle to sign would be a bit of an unnecessary technicality with more downsides than pluses.</p>

<p>Keep it clean - keep it clear who your client is, and that should be the couple that is getting married. Getting anyone else to sign just means you may have responsibilities towards other people. What if those other people tell you to do one thing, and the bride and groom another? To be avoided.</p>

<p>You poor bastard!<br>

First: there is no contract. All correspondence has shown that a contract is conditioned on the existence of a <em>signed </em>contract. Since there is none, you can back out <em>now.</em><br>

Do the smart thing. Tell everyone concerned that there is no contract, and that they are left with the option of finding another photographer. You are out.<br>

If you do anything else, you will live to regret it.</p>