A Green Wedding Photog Confession

<p>About two years ago, I bought my first DSLR with kit lens only because it was on sale with the intention of taking better pictures of my kids. After that, I got hook in this and purchased about $5K worth of L lenses and I came to one realization, there’s so much I could use my DSLR on my family before they got tire of me and vice versa.</p>

<p>I decided that people photography was my main interest and I thought why don’t I become a wedding photog and put my DSLR to good use. So I took out a few ads on my local Craigslist. Responses at first was less than enthusiastic, I only got some engagement shoots and some freebie wedding jobs. But I hung in there building my portfolio one couple at a time. After my third wedding, I had amassed enough to build up a portfolio and build a website. </p>

<p>I took out more ads on CL charging $300 for a full day wedding. Since now I have a somewhat valid portfolio, there responses were very overwhelming. So good that I jacked up my rate to $500 for full day within two weeks after signing 3 couples. Then I got another 3 couples at $500 in less than a week and I jacked up my rates to $800. </p>

<p>The average of a decent tog charges about $2K with album for full day and now I charge $1K with engagement but no album. So while I’m still the McDonald’s of wedding photog in my town, I’m not the Dollar Store anymore.</p>

<p>At this time, about one year since I took out my first freebie CL ad one year ago, I have done 7 weddings. 2011 will be the first full year of me doing weddings and I have at 25 confirmed bookings for this year at an average of about $900 each. </p>

<p>I’ve a decent corporate full time job so money was not the motivation of me doing this. It’s just I love people photography and I can use all my lenses and cameras by doing weddings. After collecting 25 deposits, I invested another $6K in my cameras and lenses, getting a second body and a few more L lenses etc. It’s amazing looking back at how far I’ve come in a little more than a year, from a budget Rebel to amassing more than $10K of equipment. Of course, the portfolio I’ve built is my biggest pride and joy.</p>

<p>It is flattering that couples will come a long way in bad weather to meet with me. And some told me they are lucky to find me as they couldn’t afford the average $2K price tag. Sometimes I wondered was I right to undercut other photogs in prices because I don’t need this to earn a living. But I guess it is a free country after all. </p>

<p>Maybe after the 25 weddings this year, I will feel burnt out especially after doing the few blue collar weddings with big brides that I signed initially for $300. But there are a few that I’m really stoked to do as well.</p>

<p>It’s not all rosy to this point. Like at the beginning there’s one cheap couple that promised to pay me $200 after the wedding. They ignored my emails and phone calls after I put in a 12 hour day at their wedding, and I knew they’d downloaded all their pictures from website already. After this, I never allowed couples to download pictures until payments had been received in full.</p>

<p>That’s OK as the positives far exceeded the negatives. Like one bride said she cried when she saw her photos and I was an angel. And I’ve gotten 2 referrals from the weddings I’ve already done.</p>

<p>One thing I surprised even myself was my closing rate was very high. Of about 40 couples I’ve met, only 2 didn’t sign me. And most of them signed me on the spot with deposit in hand. There were 3 that signed me from out of town and sent me the deposit checks without even seeing me. It is a humbling and rewarding experience when people put so much trust and faith in you.</p>

<p>I’ve met one $400 wedding planner who worked two days to setup and take down a wedding, probably spent 20 hours in that gig. It makes me think that people in this industry aren’t too far away from those in the movies industry, glamorous on the outside but pedestrian on the inside. Only a few can command top dollars and the rest are working for peanuts. </p>

<p>Obviously, my clientele is the budget conscious type that even if the likes of Mike Colon or Joe Buissink charge them $3K, they won’t go for it. </p>

<p>I guess that’s my niche and I do think what I give them is more than the price I charged, especially those $300-$500 gigs I signed earlier. I’m going in with $10K worth of equipment that just to rent them for one day will cost more than $500.</p>

<p>Anyway, I would just like to share my experience here. I used to envy other photogs with beautiful websites and now I have one of my own. To build something from nothing and getting paid, no matter how little, is the best feeling in the world.</p>

 

<p>Congratulations on your success. But 25 weddings at even $1,000 is only $25,000 gross. You've put $10,000 into gear and presumably have other expenses. It's great to serve the mass market, but unless you can up your rates, you're going to need to shoot two weddings each and every weekend to gross enough to make a living.</p>

<p>First off, congratulations on building up your business, 25 weddings is a very good number for any wedding photographer to book. It sounds like you are in the business for the right reasons, and even those of us charging $3,000 a wedding aren't in it for the money :)<br>

I too started off shooting very low budget weddings-my first ever paid job was $50 to do an incredibly redneck wedding reception. It was at a VFW hall, and the theme was pajamas. From there I've steadily increased my prices to the point where I am now. I just recently went full time and increased my price by 50% over last year while increasing my bookings by 200%<br>

I agree with you that it is a great experience every time a couple books, and even more so when it happens over the phone...I recently booked a wedding with a single phone call, and the bride paid the substantial deposit with a credit card. And referrals are a wonderful feeling as well-every time I'm contacted by a bride that was referred either by a former client or one of the many vendors I work with, it's a wonderful feeling.<br>

With a starting price of $2,400 for my basic package, I'm not too concerned about being 'undercut' by $1,000 shooters. As you say, your clients are not my clients. I think of it as the difference between people shopping for a Mercedes and those shopping for a Hyundai. Hyundai makes a very good product, but if somebody is in the market for a Mercedes, they won't stop at the Hyundai dealership. I believe the same holds true for weddings. <br>

I will also say 'don't quit your day job' and not because I think your work sucks or anything, as I haven't seen it, but as has been mentioned, your 25 weddings are only grossing you $25,000, and after taxes and expenses, you would be lucky to keep $15,000 of that in profit. There is a reason most wedding photographers also do portraits or some other sort of work.</p>

<p>Thanks Craig and A. for your response. At first I was just glad someone invited me shoot their wedding for free, then I was happy to get $500 for it, and then $1K and so on. <br>

I'm still at the stage that I prefer more work than more money. But after this year and after doing more than 30 weddings, I would up my price a bit for 2012. Mainly because I want to get better gigs. Better gigs that you don't get stuck in a dilapidated community hall reception for a few hours with a bunch of drunken redneck guests.<br>

Right now, I'm still fresh and hungry enough that I can endure some low quality weddings but that probably won't be for long before I would feel burnt out by them. </p>

<p> </p>

Keep thinking of new ways to bring in higher paying clients. Working for just a few bucks is still better then staying home watching TV or something.

 

You really need to make somewhere around $50,000 to show a slight profit. Remember there are taxes and insurance, back up gear, car expensives, just to get started. The most expensive fee's will be advertising.

<p>I just got done reading your thread over on another photography forum - the same post and it looks like it was your first time ever posting over there too. To echo Bob, I do hope that you are insured along with a good liability policy... regardless if you are looking to make money or not, you should be insured!</p>

 

<p>What a joke. It's almost funny, but not quite...</p>

<p>While I feel that congratulations might be in order, I would like to caution you against an issue you seem to have overlooked completely, namely that one of the reasons you're getting so many and easy bookings is most likely directly related to price rather than the quality of your work (that is not to say your work is bad or anything and chances are it is probably better than quite a few other photographers available on CS) and this will, at a certain price point, stop being a differentiating factor for you and then you'll discover all those easy booking will start drying out...</p>

<p>You've invested alot and will continue to so you need to develop a good and functional business model which will allow you to determine that price point, reposition yourself, set up you WHOLE workflow in such a way as to be able to service more demanding customers (and jobs) in the future and connect all these to how much you essentially want to be able to make from this. I know you said you're not in this for the money, but there will inevitably come a time when you'll be feeling sick (ill), you won't want to even step out of the house and you'll have a massive booking for that day - that is when you'll find out how determined you are. Or when you find yourself in yet another depressing reception hall fending off advances by yet another drunken party goer...</p>

<p>Put some more thought and planning into it, otherwise this enthousiasm will rub against reality and fade in such a spectacular way you'll be left with your head spinning...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>but unless you can up your rates, you're going to need to shoot two weddings each and every weekend to gross enough to make a living.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's assuming it's the only source of income. If it's to supplement a weekday job then a few $1000 or even $500 weddings would be a welcome boost to anyone's finances.</p>

<p>Good luck with your hobby.........</p>

<p>Thanks for your responses, especially on getting insurance and having a plan so not to feel burnt out. I got one question here that after this year, I plan on only doing weddings I think are good, fun and decent.<br>

So after meeting with the client and if they decide to book me, is there a decent way to turn down the booking I don't want to do without insulting the clients? I would say more than half of my clients book me in our first meeting with deposit checks in hand. How do I turn those down? Thanks.</p>

<p>You can't. There's the rub. The only way of turning down any kind of booking without treading on dangerous ground is to be 'unavailable' that day. Obviously, you can't be unavailable immediately after meeting with a prospect.</p>

<p>You can always say you don't think it would be a 'good fit', but prospects aren't stupid. They'll know they are getting the brush off.</p>

<p>How do you know in advance what wedding is not going to be, "Good, fun and decent?"</p>

<p>This thread is beginning to take on a Howard Stern prank phone call appeal.</p>

<p> </p>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=4153638">Manuel Neace</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"></a>, Apr 05, 2011; 12:51 p.m.</p>

 

<p>How do you know in advance what wedding is not going to be, "Good, fun and decent?"</p>

 

<p>I just know after talking to 40 couples in the last 12 months. I am trying not to be condescending to the couples here but here're a few examples:<br>

1. A bride getting ready at a house on the part of town I won't want to enter after 6pm.<br>

2. A couple having a emotionally challenged child and that the child will be with them throughout the wedding.<br>

3. A couple showed me a horrendous wedding album of their family and asked me if I could do the same for them. I said no but they still booked me.<br>

4. A bride's parents booked me as a gift to their daughter but the bride told me she never liked to have her pictures taken including her wedding day. <br>

5. Nike and dime couples that asked if they can save $50 by not doing such and such.<br>

Looking back, I would say about 5 of those 30 or so bookings I got, I regreted afterwards. But I took them when I was starting out and couldn't afford to be too selective.<br>

Generally, a good wedding to me is ceremony at the church and reception at a good hotel. After that, I am interested in doing some Greek weddings where they break glasses or Jewish weddings in Hoopas. East indian weddings with different traditions and dresses are interesting to me too.<br>

I will ask the couple about their venues before the meeting. But the rest can only be learn in the meeting at such time I might or might not be interested in doing the wedding anymore.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Examples 2-5 can happen no matter what level of weddings you are photographing, and example 1 could happen with a bride marrying into money. All of it is just part of doing business--this business. As stated, you can choose to be selective, but about the only thing that gets you out of accepting a booking without the prospect becoming suspicious that you are rejecting them, is being 'unavailable'.</p>

<p>You could just say you are no longer interested in doing the wedding (not a good fit), but be prepared for possible consequences in the form of bad word of mouth. I know a local photographer with sterling reviews on yelp whose only negative review is a bride he rejected--unclear what the real reason was. People are very hurt when they are rejected, and the negative comments are nastier than normal.</p>

<p>Are they contacting you through your website?<br>

Get one of those forms where they need to fill out date, venue, name, number of guest etc, etc.<br>

Whatever questions that you might want to know about the prospects that could help you qualify them.</p>

<p>with all due respect - I would love to see your site - because without seeing it I would generally say the reason you are getting bookings at the rate you are getting them is because you are cheap - not because you are good or the B&G value you - for your audience it comes down to money not value - they just want someone to give them some images - my guess is you are giving them thier images? On one hand I say "yeah for you" on the other "you are damaging our business" for those of us who do this to support our families we would never consider a 1000. fee. just can't make money doing that...<br>

you should be pre-qualifing your clients before "they book you" it is unethicall to turn a client down once you have put a proposal on the table for them. When I meet with clients I tell them it is to see if there is a fit for both of us. I never pull a contract out without knowing this is a client I want to photograph. <br>

And in this market today - you will be know as the 1k photog - it will be very difficult to move yourself out of that market. I have a friend stuck in that market because she started there and everyone who reffers her got it for that price. So if you want to move this from a hobby to a professional carreer you might consider this as you move forward.</p>

<p>Hi Francie,<br>

Yes I am giving them their images back. This is actually what I wanted to do because I have a day job and I would rather make more money by shooting more weddings than selling photos or making albums. My clients are exactly those you described as wanting "someone to give them some images".<br>

Thanks for your advice of telling the prospects are only to see "if there's a fit". I might try to use it sometimes.<br>

But I just don't understand the aversion of releasing the digital rights. For me, I like taking photos and fixing them in Lightroom. <br>

So I would rather shoot two $1K weddings with no prints to make $2K rather than shooting a $2K wedding and having to sell prints and albums. You end up making $2K one way or another.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Best advice I've received on not getting known as "the cheap wedding photographer" goes something like this: don't quote cheap prices, offer one-time discounts. IOW, "this is what I normally charge, but at the moment I am running a special offer during these dates for such-and-such and XYZ off."</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"with big brides"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The physical attributes of your clients is a factor that "will" make you "feel burnt out"? How so?</p>

<p>Raise your rates every couple of months, just a little, like 5% or so. So when you get referrals, the difference in price won't be that huge from one bride to the next. But you will head in the right direction. And remember, if you double your rates, you can afford to lose slightly more than half your customers and still make the same money.<br>

Eduardo's suggestion is a good one too. Sometimes finding legit-sounding reasons for giving a discount can be challenging! ALWAYS invoice your bride with the non-discounted rate, then subtracting the discount, so they know how much the wedding "should" have cost. Otherwise they'll forget and tell their friends only the amount they paid.<br>

And forget those who say people like you are ruining the industry. What "ruined the industry" (which I don't believe to be true, as it has merely changed radically) is the ease with which a competently-exposed image can now be taken. There used to be technological barriers to the photography business. Many of those have gone away now. If I view you as my competition, I must also view every guest at a wedding as the competition. We compete not just against photographers who charge less, but also the fact that no one need hire us at all. The middle-class photographer is becoming extinct. The lower end thrives because there are photographers willing to work cheaply (or free) to build up their business, and there are clients who are price-conscious but not quality-conscious. And of course there are people who care very much, and pay accordingly but are very picky. Far fewer people are willing to pay medium amounts of money for medium quality images.<br>

Since you're not interested in giving up your day job, I would suggest you avoid burnout since this is more for enjoyment than for money. Ask important questions up front in your online form (as Pete S. suggested). You need that info from your prospective client at the same time as when they tell you their date, so you can use the "I'm booked" excuse. If you can afford to turn down work, then pick and choose based on the venue they've selected. No point in working in crappy venues that won't improve your portfolio, and won't be any fun. Maybe set yourself a goal of turning down 1/4 of all the inquiries you get, for example. You'll still get stuck occasionally shooting a bride who looks like a frog, or a groom who's so drunk he can't stand up. But at least you can eliminate some obvious bad choices based on venue.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>So I would rather shoot two $1K weddings with no prints to make $2K rather than shooting a $2K wedding and having to sell prints and albums. You end up making $2K one way or another.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>... um, you are doing TWICE the work. :/</p>

<blockquote>

<p>ALWAYS invoice your bride with the non-discounted rate, then subtracting the discount, so they know how much the wedding "should" have cost. Otherwise they'll forget and tell their friends only the amount they paid.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good idea. People love telling their friends how much they have saved.</p>

<p>As someone who is in a similar "boat" to the OP, I was intrigued by this thread. I support how he/she went about this 110%. I am recently retired and consider myself to be a "Hyundai photographer as opposed to those in the "Mercedes" category. I like the OP's business model, even if it wasn't planned out in great detail. I too would not need to gross $50K or more a year in order to generate additional net income.</p>

<p>Personally I just do not understand the point of view that some professionals have that budget photographers are "spoiling" it for those who want to make photography their sole source of income. Just as we have markets for Hyundais and Mercedes, Walmart and Neiman Marcus, so too there is a market for professional photographers throughout the pricing range.</p>

<p>So long as my personal safety is not at risk, I would have no objection to shooting a "redneck" wedding. I have been a guest at many solidly middle-class weddings where, after a few drinks, many of the guests start acting in what might be considered a "redneck" manner. Of course, I live in the South, and so I don't find rednecks to be an undesirable social class.</p>

<p>Congrats again to the OP. I am about where you were about a year ago. I created my own inexpensive website through Zenfolio, and have already started generating a little bit of income.</p>

<p>Git-R-Done! :)</p>