Best MF system for a photography student to buy into?

<p>I'll be starting my Photography A level in September and I'm looking to buy an MF camera to carry me through it and on into further life. I've been looking around and doing some research into cameras, lenses etc. I currently own a Kiev 60 but I would like something with better quality lenses, more accessories and changeable backs. Until about a week ago I was settled on a Hasselblad 500C/M but now I'm having second thoughts. Then up until an hour ago it was a Mamiya RZ67 or bust however after doing some further research I'm now back at square one. I'm lost in a world of floating optics and digital backs<br /><br /><br /><br />The camera would mainly be used for portrait/still life work (not always in the studio) as well as landscape and architectural photography. I'd either like a 6x6 or 6x7 camera with he ability to shoot type 100 Polaroids. However I'd also like the ability to buy a digital back.<br /><br />Can someone please help? I'm really stuck. Has anyone got any advice or suggestions for which system to buy into?<br /><br />Thanks. </p>

<p>So what's wrong with the RZ67? Sounds like the ideal system for you.</p>

<p>You have all excellent choices in front of you. Perhaps you are just over-thinking it? Everything you are choosing will bring you to where you want to go. Just do it........</p>

<p>Are you looking for something to carry or something for a studio? And is the digital back something you could buy soon or are you talking about 5-10 years down the road?</p>

<p>the Hasselblad 500C or CM fits the bill with ability to take digital back and or Polaroid back. I have this camera with A12 film back and 80 Planar and 150 Sonnar, great piece of equipment. If you carefully study the operation, jams are avoided. Fabulous camera for slow, contemplative, composition driven photography, with resulting superb images.</p>

For the non-English, A-levels are the equivalent of graduating from high school. I'm not entirely sure that a

medium-format digital back is really a necessity at this stage.

(And unless money is no object, whatever system you buy now will have to be cheap enough as to be essentially

disposable; so you don't have to worry too much about choosing your one true camera system right now)

<p>Agreed. At this level, unless the school has MF digital equipment for the students to use I don't see how important it would be - and the cost is on a whole different scale.</p>

<p>A Hasselblad is excellent (I have one), but so is a Mamiya (I used to have one) and those cost less. The Hasselblad's biggest advantage is size. I'd look for a good used RB or RZ and a Polaroid back for it.</p>

<p>Your available budget will probably determine the type of MF camera system you could/should buy into initially.</p>

<p>You say you want 6X6 or 6X7. The good majority of 6X6 is accomplished using TLR's, but these won't conform to your requirements of interchangeable backs, instant film, or digital. There are great TLR cameras out there, and they can offer the student very affordable value. One of the better values in TLR's is in the Mamiya C series, 220's or 330's. With interchangeable lenses and viewer options, a good usable body, and two lens kit can be had for $275.00-$350.00.</p>

<p>The RZ for 6X7 is a beauty of a beast, as are the RB's. Either of these camera systems will accommodate all of your requirements of lenses and backs, including instant film and digital. How large a kit do you wish to assemble, well, the sky is the limit. Starting used at $250-$500, for a good initial camera, to $20,000-$35,000 for a kit with several of the best lenses, and the most recent digital backs and interface.</p>

<p>I wonder if maybe a 645 camera would fill your needs? The digital backs that are offered for MF cameras today, more closely fill the 645 image area. Lets say a 40mmX45mm sensor size, the lenses of a 645 are better suited for existing digital backs then the RZ/RB. Most all of the pieces for a 645 kit will be less expensive then their RB/RZ, (or 6X7) counterparts. Most 645's (not all), will provide the interchangeable film back, instant film, and digital back options you desire.</p>

<p>In many ways, starting a RB/RZ system, and adding to that system overtime, with the hopes of completing the system with a digital back, isn't really the best way to go. Due to the limited sensor size of today's digital backs, it's almost like packing around this huge beast that is a RB/RZ, but only shooting them loaded with 35mm film. The digital back idea for a RB/RZ, or any 6X7 camera, only makes [better] sense for those that already have an existing 6X7 system completed.</p>

<p>I own and love the RZ, (for film), as well as TLR's. I have probably only added to your confusion, but for a student getting started in MF, maybe a used TLR and/or 645 would be a better way to test the waters of MF.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>You might consider keeping your Kiev 60, for now, and getting some Zeiss Jena lenses in the P-6 mount.</p>

<p>If you abandon your choice of a RB or RZ 67 you will:</p>

<p>1. Miss the extra film area of a 6x7.</p>

<p>2. Wish you had the revolving back in the studio and just about anywhere you use a tripod.</p>

<p>3. Regret missing an extended range of good glass.</p>

<p>I read into your post as wanting the film part for now and still having the flexibility of purchasing a digital back after graduation for your paid work.</p>

Hasselblad.

<p>I would recommend the RB67 if you can get hold of one. They are fully mechanical and built like tanks. They are also very flexible, the bellows extension allowing one to get very close to the subject, e.g. photograph a 4"x 5" subject and almost fill the frame. </p>

<p>The RB67 is a more reliable camera than the RZ overall. They are both a little heavy for carrying around and hand holding. The Hasselblad is lighter and more versatile and will probably be easier to service some years from now. The Hass is a clumsy shape for hand holding. So are the Rolleis. The Pentax 6x7 is easier to hand hold but kicks when you fire it and is hard to load. After trying these and many others I settled on an RB and a Rollei twin. Both used with a tripod only. For hand holding, a Leica.</p>

<p>An RZ with a 110 lens and 120 back would be a terrific setup. I have owned both hasselbald and RZ, and recommend the RZ.</p>

<p>The only reason I can think of for a future professional to invest in a medium format camera system is that the school demands it. You will learn much more about your future life as a professional and the technology by buying a good quality DX Dslr from Canon or Nikon and beginning to invest in quality FX lenses you can use in your professional life. Somewhere down the road invest in a 20 MP fx body and the image quality will handle most professional assignments you'll ever run into. Even in architectural photography (I'm an architect) most architects and clients are happy with the product of a DSLR and a perspective control lens. True the medium format digital on a specialist body with rise like the Cambo wide has advantages but far too expensive for most (professionals included).<br>

If you need to learn about film and camera movements, get an old monorail view camera and a roll film back - minimal investment and all resealable. There is a reason why students can afford used Hasselblads - the pro's are abandoning them in droves not because they want to but their professional careers demand it</p>

<p>Hasselblad looks the sensible option, the quality, build and size leaves the other medium format cameras standing. <br>

We have used all medium format cameras either assisting or photographing in London, the RB7 is heavy bulky and requires two actions to wind on (big deal!) the RB being a very popular camera but not as well proportioned as the Hasselblad. The Hasselblad is small, quick to use, uses similar shaped and size digital / film backs. Full compliment of lenses and accessories available, a complete system, that should be relatively cheap to obtain. It has a cult like following and there is a reason for that. (We have been using them for the past 30 odd years)<br>

Whilst some professional photographers are off loading their V camera systems the wise ones are keeping theirs. Used good Digital backs can be bought for around £2,000 or less and the prices are tumbling due to competition and the market, especially for studio work.<br>

Tests, whilst at college, on the difference between 6 x7 format and the 6 x 6 format with Zeiss lenses demonstrated, that the format size alone does not necessarily mean sharper or better quality pictures. The quality of the Zeiss lenses more than makes up for any 6x7 format or crop.<br>

The Hasselblad, contrary to previous, sits comfortably in the hand and is well balanced, never had a problem with it being awkward as suggested, though it is starting to get heavier as age takes its toll. It is a neat little piece of engineering, the 500/CM also has a pistol grip accessories and the later 503CW a motorised hand grip. (More weight though)<br>

The choice will also depend on personal taste, Hasselblad is a classic and iconic camera, it is a joy to own, it could sit in the studio on the desk all day and still earn its keep by doing nothing but sitting pretty. Of course the world moves on and each will recommend their own.<br>

Digial Slr's come into their own as mentioned and it is a matter of choice, pratical use and what the camera is to be used for. We use a Nikon D3100 for holiday snaps, neat little camera, just the job!<br>

enjoy the course : )</p>

<p>To be quite honest, for an A-level film-based photography course, I have a hard time imagining that you'd need anything more than your Kiev. Actually, for learning photographic fundamentals you'd probably be better off with a 35mm camera plus a basic 4x5 kit. I promise you that it is the rare photography student who can predict what his gear needs will be once he embarks on a presumed but presently hypothetical professional career. I wouldn't worry too much now about trying to guess what you'll need after you finish your course.</p>

<p>If you really want a medium format system to use with film during your studies, I'd buy either a used Mamiya RZ67 or Bronica SQ-A outfit. You'll get great kit for the money and will likely be able to sell them for roughly what you paid once you are far enough down the path to really know what you need in your camera system(s).</p>

I'd bet that the quick feedback afforded by a basic dSLR (or even a point and shoot) would be a better

choice to learn the basics of photography than any film camera.

<p>Au contrare Jean-Yves! The basics of photography can not always be achieved with a point and shoot, not all of these cameras display the settings of the lens aperture, shutter speeds and ISO / ASA speed at a glance, like a film camera does. Nice lens by the way, best wishes, </p>

But some (or many) do; as do all the dSLRs I've encountered. Such mechanisms are not the sole preserve

of the film camera; on the other hand, unless one wants to spend a fortune on instant film, the immediate

feedback from the digital beastie will be much more helpful for learning the basics - choice of subject,

composition, use of light.

<p>But some (or many) do not. No one said they were. Choice of subject, composition and use of light can be taught without the use of a camera, though this is detracting from the original thread and the parameters of the enquiry.</p>

<p>@Jean-Yves:</p>

<p>Implicit in the OP's inquiry is the notion that a film camera is required for his class. Digital cameras are great learning tools for digital photography and for universal aspects of photography, but they are entirely inappropriate for learning the peculiarities of film photography.</p>

<p>I think its a mistake to agonise too much here. </p>

 

<ul>

<li>Nearly all MF slr systems are very competent. Unless you're really pushing the envelope in terms of print sizes its pretty unlikely that you'll see much difference between them.</li>

<li>At the price of MF cameras today you won't lose a lot of money on this purchase. Buy it, use it for a couple of years, sell it for about what you paid is not an unrealistic scenario so long as you can keep the camera working. The "carry on into further life" and compatability with digital backs might be deflecting you from your real need now. You can deal with all that stuff later if it still looks like MF is your best way forward.</li>

<li>Format is important. Don't buy a 6x6 if your intention is to crop the 6x6 to rectangular all the time. That way you are opening up a big gap in size of negative. 6x6 is great for people who like square. You can make great square or rectangular shots from a 67 </li>

<li>Get something you can carry if carrying is an issue. For years I hauled Bronicas around all day and whilst Bronicas are not among the heaviest MF slr systems, by the time I included five or six lenses, a prism, meter, spare backs and so on the bag was heavy. To do what I did with a Mamiya RB insteadwould not have been possible for me. OTOH if you will stick to one lens and a tripod, it might not be a big deal. </li>

<li>Buy a camera that you know works properly from someone who will give you the opportunity to put a couple of films through it and get them processed so you can see that everything works. Thats probably more important than which brand you buy. </li>

</ul>

 

 

<p>I have been very fortunate across my years to have owned and played with some outstanding photographic tools. I too feel tat the RB67 is a more reliable camera than the RZ overall (no battery, shutter in lens, etc) . Yes, it is heavy (but at 6ft 4in I can walk-about the local gardens with my Pro-S, 2 loaded backs, and a 65mm and 90mm for Flower shots and get a good workout.<br>

I have 6 lenses for my kit (360/250/180/127/90/65 - all the glass is great IMHO). I have Digital for fun shots and a 645 Pro TL system for more serious experimentation. Whenever/Wherever possible use a Tripod or Monopod - irregardless of camera. Hand holding (outside my adorable wife) only as a last resort.</p>