jenkins Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Quick question, recently I have done a shoot for a friend and her family and that has led to other jobs as people have liked the images.</p> <p>So take yesterday for example I suppose I was shooting for around an hour maybe more in two locations very close together, I took around 120 pictures and supplied the client 69 finished images with 23 of them converted to B&W so in total 92 full size images.</p> <p>How many images do you usually supply for an hours shoot and I know it is geographical in what you can charge and I am not asking you to be specific but what is a good ballpark for this scenario?</p> <p>Thanks in advance for any insight.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayumangi Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Does it matter? Do they even know how many photos you took? Are you charging by the file?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkins Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>10, 100 or 1000 Marius, what do you find an average supply of images for an hours shoot, that is what I am curious about.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>It depends on how many are really good compared to how many are just good. I try to deliver only the very best of the set whether I spent a minute or a week on the assignment. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayumangi Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Here's the thing I don't give any images anymore except for commercial work where I charge by file and a limited period usually 3 yrs.</p> <p>If you must give the images for whatever reason then just remove the technically unacceptable, let them decide what is good or not. I mean, are you getting paid to decide for them? second, are you going to be paid after they made the selection? do you expect to get any print orders after you give the images?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverhaas Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Typically in an hour to 2 hour hour shoot (portrait session) I do between 100 and 300 images - client gets all of the keepers.</p> <p>Dave</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Ian Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Marius<br> Sometimes you are paid to decide what is best, sometimes not, it totally depends on the client, the circumstances and the work. ... just hope that you know which ahead of time :-)</p> <p>In answer to your original questions though, personally, I aim to provide a <em>minimum</em> of about 30 images per shooting hour, or one for every two minutes of active shooting time. Often I find I supply 2 or 3 times that, but it varies, and my personal philosophy is that 1 proofed, unique, image for every 2 minutes is reasonable, as that's about 50% faster than the max rate you could expect a sequence of posed group shots to occur. Of course the exact number depends on the number that turn out well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayumangi Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Marcus, question is without sitting down with the client and going over each image, how sure are you that what you picked as the BEST is REALLY the BEST one for them?</p> <p>BEST in photography is very subjective because its an emotional thing rather than something logical. That's why, if you MUST ABSOLUTELY give the images, then I say give them all that is technically acceptable then let them decide, unless they paid you to explicitly do that for them.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcossar Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>David.......100-300 images in 60-120 minutes? So including all the posing, set-ups etc.......you take an average of about<em><strong> a shot every 25 seconds? </strong></em><br> How can there possibly be<strong><em> any</em></strong> keepers? Just askin'..... Robert</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkins Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 <p>Well that is where I was coming from in a way in that is is better to supply more images and let the client delete whatever they didn't want rather than me doing it?</p> <p>Of coarse anything that was not technically good enough or weak was deleted.</p> <p>I was talking to another Photographer the other day that told me that 10 images were enough and I just couldn't believe that which has led to this post, as it just seems a ridiculous amount.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayumangi Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>Why even give images in the first place? =)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acedigital Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>Are you charging a sitting fee plus print sales? By just giving a CD you are losing the chance at higher sales volumes. Many PROFITABLE pros either don't "give" the CD, they charge a premium for it, and many just sell higher end wall prints. Depends on your target market, if you really want to make any money, or are just getting experience. Do some more reading here and elsewhere and decide what your business model should be.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>Way too many variables to establish any sort of a norm for your question. If I was shooting an engagement session over the course of 90 minutes, then 10 really good portraits over that period of time could be ideal. If I was shooting a family reunion with 40-60 subjects, I could easily take 200 images in 90 minutes and deliver something near 175 images......jus' depends.</p> <p><em>".....in a way in that is is better to supply more images and let the client delete whatever they didn't want rather than me doing it?"</em><br> <em> </em><br> The key is finding the balance between surpassing client expectations and giving them some control/choice/options in the final selection process. It's a question of professional judgment and not really the function of a consensual "ballpark" analysis on an internet forum.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurel_jensen1 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>I shoot around 100 images an hour and deliver the best 60-75 (some are redundant and others not up to par so I don't use them). I'm trying to reduce the number I take but I find that hard since I'm used to moving fast and come from the photojournalistic tradition. Even when I shoot portraits I tend to over shoot ...<br> I do find it interesting that what I consider the best photos often aren't what my clients choose so I tend to want to give them more rather than less choices.<br> As for fees ... that depends but I'd ballpark it around $200-$250/hour.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagesax Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I take the approach that if I wouldn't want to show the photo to the client then don't. I also believe that if it were my photo, would I want to make an enlargement. If no, don't show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkins Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>Laurel thanks for that information we think alike on those issues of choice for the client, there are always the wow pictures and as Ellis said the good one's, I would like to only supply the very best but that would mean supplying a smaller amount of images.</p> <p>Bob if I am in two minds then I will delete it, if the picture doesn't portray anything even if it's technically correct then why would somebody want it?</p> <p>I am pretty hard on the culling but I would hope as time goes on that I would only supply the pictures that really stand above all the others.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcossar Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 <p>Only Supply the WOWS! Learn how to create more wows and less hmmmmms.....Robert</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkins Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>That is the plan Robert :)</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>If the job is not a wedding (i.e. they want all the candids of family goofing off, etc.) I am with Ellis V. and supply the best. Try looking at each image and ask if it is a lesser copy in effect, of another shot you have. That always helps to refine my work.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_mertz Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>The tricky part of that Robert is there are many times a photo that a photographer thinks is hmmmmm, makes a client go wow.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenkins Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 <p>David I agree with that totally, probably the very best way of deciding what is the cream of the crop is when you <em>very first </em>look at them, do you think?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 <p>Looks as if your question is directed at David W, but I'll provide this info:<br> Your first look at an image can give you a sense of the potential emotional impact of an image but it also provides an opportunity to overlook selective flaws as well. Still, no easy simple answer to your questions.......</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_hitchen Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 <blockquote> <p>The tricky part of that Robert is there are many times a photo that a photographer thinks is hmmmmm, makes a client go wow.</p> </blockquote> <p>As a client I expect to receive a small number of quality pictures and make the photographer earn his money by weeding them out. In a film shoot 20 years ago I would have expected to choose 3 or 4 prints out of 10 shots that the photographer headlined for me: and for digital I would expect no different because they should take the same level of care and have the same level of discrimination to present their best work to me.<br> Admittedly digital offers the chance for the photographer to take shots of (for instance) kids goofing around and so there are likely to be ones that are less technically perfect but which show the essence of my family <em>as I see them</em>. So depending on my discussion with the photographer at the start, I would expect to see up to 10 excellent shots and maybe given the option to review a couple of dozen to see if there are any that are <em>interesting to me</em>. Any more than that in a 1hr shoot and surely you are entering the realms of 'another variation on Bob scratching his butt'.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan_b Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 <p>LMAO ..."bob scratching his butt".</p> <p>So true.</p> <p>Well. I find that if I "deliver" or "proof" about 30-40 per real hour of shooting, that's too many for most customers. That could be out of 80, or out of 400. It depends on the job. If it's a straight portrait, I can literally burn pixels every three to five seconds or so, and do 10-20 careful captures in five minutes, easy. But in that case, I'm looking specifically to throw away 80% of the images on the first cull. In one type of session, I just proofed 40 for an hour and a half family-at-the-beach, and the client was overwhelmed. They liked too many and now they need time to think about it. I had maybe a hundred out of 300 that were fully deliverable (good shots that are printable at any reasonable size) and intentionally trimmed that down to about 40 for proofs. It's usually pretty easy to pick the best of any grouping that are similar.</p> <p>So to agree with Mike, I feel that it's my job to tell the customer which images are worthy of a print (or publication), and to not even show the ones which are not up to my personal standards. If that leaves five good shots, then it's five proofs.</p> <p>To that extent, less almost always seems to be more anyway. A very good salesman once told me that he never shows more than three (clearly different) options at a time to a customer. He found that people just cannot make a choice between more than that. If he shows four choices, the customer can never make up their mind, and the sale is delayed and potentially lost. If I show three similar photos to anyone, they can almost instantly tell me which one they like best. If I show five or ten, I might wait forever for an answer.</p> <p>So, I would hazard to suggest that, for events, 50-100 plus one for each significant person attending is a lot, for families, 30-50 is a LOT, for simple personal portraits, 10-20 is almost too many, and for a headshot, five is more than enough. For commercial and advertising, well...it should already be written into the contract so you don't have to ask.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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