Camera recommendation for night photography

<p>I'm interested in getting back into MF for night photography with b&w and chrome - specifically long exposures with moonlit landscapes, etc. Though I'll probably end up using it for other things (i.e. "normal" photography), this is the use that's making me interested in the purchase. So, I really need a mechanical camera that doesn't rely on a battery to operate the shutter. To complicate the matter, I'll use it for wilderness trips so it needs to be very portable and fairly light (by kayak, so weight as critical as would be the case with backpacking). And reliable - if I'm out for a week with no backup gear, I'd rather stay away from something with a reputation for being unreliable. Several years ago I had a Bronica SQA system and I think the mechanical SQB would work pretty well for what I have in mind. But, like most photographers I've always had an interest in Hasselblad like the 500CM though I'm curious about the "reliable" part.</p>

<p>The 6x6 format would be my choice unless maybe another system would be better. I wouldn't rule out rangefinders like the Mamiya 6, but I'd like to keep the complete camera price (body, back, 80mm, WLF) in the $500-800 range max with the possibility of getting a fairly wide lens that doesn't cost a small fortune. I'd like to do it on the cheap but I don't want to buy something I'll regret. And there's always that nagging 4x5 idea... Any recommendations?</p>

<p>Hi Steve , I've used the Mamiya TLRS for years for night photography, I used mostly chrome and fuji provia 100 has always given me excellent results. When you have time take a look at my star trails folder and it will give you an idea as to what you might expect.</p>

<p>It may depend on whether you need to focus closer than infinity. If you do, a rangefinder will be much easier to focus. My Bronica S2 is pretty much impossible to focus. I"m not sure if anyone else has had this issue, but the cable release socket on the Mamiya 6 is not particularly smooth to operate.</p>

<p>Rolleiflex. Relatively light weight, mechanical, rugged,superb lens. No interchangable lenses but 75 or 80mm lens covers most situations. Good luck, Bob</p>

<p>Koni-Omega M or Omega 100/200.</p>

<p>Steve, some mathematics:<br /> long exposure with good results = tripod;<br /> tripod + MF camera = bulky;<br /> tripod + MF camera + kayak = wet/lost/damaged;<br /> wet/lost/damaged x $800 = waste of money.</p>

<p>So I recommend an inexpensive TLR such as the Yashica MAT or Mamiya C330. Consider the Mamiya or Pentax 645, although this would eliminate the mechanical and 6x6 clauses. I use a Mamiya 6MF frequently, but I don't like it on a tripod. And, you will <em>need </em>tripod if you want decent photos. That whole 'balance-the-camera-on-stump' thing will get old fast.</p>

<p>I second the Koni-Omega recommendation.</p>

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<p>Consider the Mamiya or Pentax 645, although this would eliminate the mechanical and 6x6 clauses.</p>

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<p>Actually, the older M645 line, like the 1000s model, do not require a battery for long exposures. There is an undocumented "T" mode. Remove the battery, fire the shutter on any marked speed (the self timer is perfect - no cable release needed), and at the end of the exposure, depress the battery check button to close the shutter. It's advisable to cover the lens first in case you shake the camera while pressing the BC.</p>

<p>I use anything up to 3 M645 1000s bodies in parallel for long exposure astrophotography. I have been using one of them for this since 1992. That, I think, is some indicator of reliability. But it's not 6x6 of course.</p>

<p>Other advantages of the M645 are its fast bright lenses and bright focusing screens - excellent for dim light especially with the WLF. And it's certainly light, although replacing the WLF with a prism increases the weight a fair bit, and easily puts you into 6x6 + WLF weight territory.</p>

<p>I would think that the Hasselblad 500CM would be another great choice, but more expensive, and the lenses tend to be slower. There may be a case that old focal-plane shutters are more reliable than old leaf shutters...but OTOH swap to another leaf-shutter lens and you can keep shooting.</p>

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<p>I will join the chorus for a TLR. For what you're looking for, I would recommend a Rolleicord or a Yashica. Good cameras, not too expensive, relatively light and easy to back pack. They don't need batteries, all mechanical, and good lenses. Don't write off the Autocord, Ricohcord, or ikoflex. They're good cameras as well. You really can't go wrong with a TLR. Cheers.</p>

<p>Like Gary, I use Mamiya TLRs.</p>

<p>Old plate camera plus rollfilm adapter = very small, lightweight combination with a huge negative. Masks for 6x6 might be available. Ground glass focusing is a pain, but for non-moving subjects this should be okay on a tripod. For a more convenient package you might also get a vintage folder camera (properly CLA'd!). This is as small and inexpensive as it gets. Unfortunately, no wide angles are possible unless you get a (much bigger) press camera.</p>

<p>For an SLR I would recommend one of the Mamiya M645 cameras with WLF and a 55mm lens. Needs a battery, though.</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses. I do want to stick with a battery-free camera with the ability to use a 50mm or wider lens, so that does narrow the choices a bit, but the older M645 sounds like a possibility especially with the bright screen. You guys aren't doing a good job of talking me out of a 500CM... :)</p>

<p>E. Short, I paddle a boat with watertight compartments, and almost everything is in a watertight bag within those compartments. I've hauled nice 35mm and DSLR gear with my small Gitzo carbon fiber tripod around that way many times. Speaking of the tripod, it's the one I'll need to use (space is at a premium) so I do need to keep the camera weight fairly low. It's too perfect of an area to pass up night photography and if I'm doing only this on film, I might as well have a big negative.</p>

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<p>The 500cm is a great solution. I went with the Bronica SQ-A for the same long exposure applications that you are looking into, simply because the system is far less expensive and offers equivalent results. There are some B&W long exposures in my gallery made that camera. For long exposures, I like to have the option of using 100 or 400 speed film loaded in two separate backs (Fuji Acros or Neopan, and sometimes Tri-X if I want to force a really long exposure since it requires massive reciprocity failure correction compared to the Fujis).<br>

The Bronica lenses offer a "T" exposure setting that bypasses the batteries, so there is zero battery drain. Some worry that having to slide the T-switch on the lens to close the shutter will introduce camera shake, but it has no effect on long exposures (15 secs or more -- the camera has an 8 sec shutter speed, and the SQ-Ai offers 16 secs and a Bulb setting), but if you are concerned about movement, you can always throw a small black cloth or hat over the lens and then close the shutter.<br>

The Zenzanon-PS lenses are great (I love the 105mm "S" lens too), and are highly flare resistant.<br>

One other thing to consider is that if you wish to bracket really long exposures, it is advantageous to have duplicate rigs, and the Bronica gear is inexpensive enough that you can easily pick up a double set of your favorite body and lens(es). For instance, if after a while you find that you use the 65mm most at night (as I do), it is reasonably cheap to add a second body and lens so you can bracket exposures simultaneously. For example, you can simply set up two cameras side by side and run one for two hours and one for four hours. If you do a lot of nighttime work, this can be a godsend.</p>

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<p>Steve, some mathematics:<br /> long exposure with good results = tripod;<br /> tripod + MF camera = bulky;<br /> tripod + MF camera + kayak = wet/lost/damaged;<br /> wet/lost/damaged x $800 = waste of money.<br>

So I recommend an inexpensive TLR such as the Yashica MAT or Mamiya C330. Consider the Mamiya or Pentax 645, although this would eliminate the mechanical and 6x6 clauses. I use a Mamiya 6MF frequently, but I don't like it on a tripod. And, you will <em>need </em>tripod if you want decent photos. That whole 'balance-the-camera-on-stump' thing will get old fast.</p>

 

 

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<p>That's the most sensible bit of advice I've seen in this thread so far. It's your money.</p>

 

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<p>I do quite a lot of night photography, mostly with large format, but sometimes medium. I've owned most of the cameras people have talked about, except for Hassy (some day...).</p>

<p>Mamiya C330 TLR: the cable release is a mechanical lever from the bottom of the camera, that actuates a metal slide that actuates a lever that comes sliding out with the (long!) bellows to eventually fire the camera. It's the worst cable-release system ever, for night photography, it can take substantial force to get this to fire and there is a real chance of jarring the camera while you're doing this. Plus, it often requires 'adjustment' (hit it with a rock, or bend it with pliers). On the plus side, the camera does have the weight to stay steady on a tripod for a few hours in moderate wind, and the lenses are amazing, 2nd to none. Better than any of my Rolleis.</p>

<p>Rolleiflex, 'Cord: get the Rolleicord. For what you're doing, you don't need the more complex mechanisms of film advance, self timer, and you won't be shooting wide open most likely (I find I prefer f5.5 - 11). Yes, it's easier to focus with a 2.8 than a 3.5.... marginally. Invest in a new ground glass/fresnel and a clean, you'll be ahead of the game with the 3.5. Plus, the 'Cord with a Xenar is relatively cheap, if you do destroy one you just buy another. It's the price of 2 plastic Holgas.</p>

<p>Mamiya RB would be a serious contender; the cable release on the lens, separate from the body release and film advance makes sense, it's a whisper-quiet Seiko shutter. The camera is built like a tank, they're cheap (even the lenses), and again they are simply amazing. No focal-plane shutters to jar the camera or break down on a wilderness trip. You can bring along a small screwdriver or two, a little bottle of lighter fluid, and you have a 'repair kit' that will solve 99% of problems. Plus, interchangeable lenses with standard filter mount (77mm) saves space on filters, hoods, accessories. But: weighs an f-ing ton. Hard to transport any great distance unless you really need the ballast in your kayak.</p>

<p>My personal choice, for what you're doing, would be 1) Rolleicord w/3.5 Xenar, followed by 2) any German 6x9 folder with a Schneider Radionar lens. These can be had for $40, and with some care will take amazing photos (the Radionar is superb stopped down to f8). Of course no batteries, and folds up enough to carry in a large pocket, wrapped in plastic bags or whatever, you can carry one of those, light meter, and a few rolls of film without ever noticing you have a camera with you. If you want the smaller format, or a choice in formats, find one with the masks to do 4.5x6, 6x6, and 6x9. Downside: zone focusing, or you bring along a little shoe-mount rangefinder for critical focus. Both of these are lightweight setups; if you're using a lightweight tripod as well, bring something you can use as a sandbag to steady it all, and fill with rocks or dirt or whatever, as needed.</p>

<p>So much to think about... Still interested in the 500CM, although adding up the price with a 50mm gets expensive quickly for something I likely won't use often enough to justify the investment. Another Bronica SQ could fit that bill. I'm going to pass on a TLR due to lack of wide angle options (correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to be the case). There's always a GSW690, and I'm familiar with the 'black hat trick'. </p>

<p>The idea of a folder is interesting too. Although it's not going to be wide, it would be easier to carry two of them than one of a lot of others. But due to space constraints I can't bring two tripods. I have shot two cameras doing things like this before and it is a big advantage. A mesh bag to fill with rocks and tie around the tripod is standard gear for this too.</p>

<p>Justin, I'm lucky enough to have met Galen Rowell. You must have some great memories from working with him.</p>

<p>I just came across a typo in my original post - weight is NOT as critical as it would be with backpacking. It still is a factor since I'm self-supported out of a small boat for a number of days, but of course I'm not actually <em>carrying</em> all of this. And also, I'll be bringing a fairly lightweight tripod - good and sturdy, but not something ideal for a camera like an RB67.</p>

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<p>A Hasselblad 500CM would meet all your requirements, and it's what you really want. I think you should get that. <em>Carpe diem</em>.</p>

<p>Stvev,</p>

<p>I don't think the Bronica SQB is a good choice for night photography as it was supplied with a standard lens that didn't have a timer swith to lock the shutter open. The maximum time exposure with this camera/lens combination is restricted to 8 seconds.</p>

<p>In the situation you described, I would carry a battery independent Nikonos III body with a 35mm f/2.5 and an 80mm f/4. The body and lenses can be used either underwater or above water. I carry film and hand held light meter in a Pelican waterproof case.</p>

<p>If I wanted to shoot medium format instead of 35mm, I would substitute a battery independent Fuji 6x7 with a 90mm normal lens and/or a Fuji 6x9cm with a 65mm wide-angle lens.</p>

<p>I usually carry a tabletop tripod; though, I might carry a larger tripod and a cable release for the medium format camera(s).<br>

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