Spearhead Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 <p>Mark, go read up on MAP. It's how pricing works for these kinds of products. I've said it about five times, I don't know why you can't take a few minutes to understand it.</p> Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdeneen Posted October 31, 2010 Share Posted October 31, 2010 <blockquote> <p>"Mark, go read up on MAP. It's how pricing works for these kinds of products. I've said it about five times, I don't know why you can't take a few minutes to understand it."</p> </blockquote> <p>So, in other words, you are unable to demonstrate the simple example I posed? I thought you knew how it works?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_rockwood Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>Here is a question. Assuming that cameras and lenses are sold at such a low margin that they are basically profitless loss leaders, then where does the camera store make its profit? Film sales have largely disappeared, so revenue from that consumable could not likely go very far to support a store. Film processing has pretty much disappeared in some places, so that source of revenue has largely dried up. Printing might be a possibility, but if most people are only making a few prints of their best digital pictures, then that source of revenue isn't likely very strong.</p> <p>What's left... camera bags, lighting equipment, picture frames, books, various other knick-knacks?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_leinster Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>By selling memory cards, ink cartridges, used equipment, compact cameras, filters, batteries, binoculars etc etc etc. In the case of online companies by keeping their costs down, I know of specialist online retailers (inks especially) who basically are one man bands operating from a garage. I can't understand why people keep asking the same question here as if expecting that someone will eventually "break down" and confess that retailers really make a huge profit on cameras! NO THEY DONT! And sadly those who can't reach a margin mix have gone to the wall, or maybe no one has noticed how many retailers have failed. Oh and by the way we don't have MAP here in the UK. The retailer is on his own, any sort of price fixing is illegal and they still make peanuts on DSLRs and lenses!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdeneen Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <blockquote> <p>"And sadly those who can't reach a margin mix have gone to the wall, or maybe no one has noticed how many retailers have failed."</p> </blockquote> <p>I have noticed. And, it might be interesting to have the correct analysis of why camera stores are closing. One suggestion is that manufacturers of cameras are only allowing for a 10% margin. Well, that certainly would put anyone out of retail business. But, that doesn't make any sense. What possible benefit accrues to the makers of cameras by having less retail stores?</p> <p>The 10% explanation supposes that by almost giving the cameras away, the stores made all their money on accessories. Let's see if that makes sense. A guy buys a camera for $1,000 and the retailer makes $100. But now, in order to pay the rent and employees, he has to sell this guy a bushel of "high profit" accessories. To make another $300 or $400 margin on the sale needed to keep the doors open, he now has to sell an additional $600 or $800 worth of batteries, bags and straps? So the customer is making a $1800 purchase? I doubt that such is the common experience.</p> <p>I came across this little anecdotal scrap of evidence: http://sellingcamerastore.com/ This guy is claiming 30% gross margin, which sounds at least logical for a retail store. Yes, I know, it's a shred, but it is a shred more than what has been presented. I think I'll email him and ask about his camera margins.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdeneen Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>My apologies - I was wrong.</p> <p>I did email the fellow with the camera store for sale, and he actually replied back. He confirms that margins on camera and lens are in the range of 10% ("Sad but true" in his words). So, I was definitely wrong, and now I am definitely shocked.</p> <p>It's always a great day when you can start out the day by learning something new!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaglow Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>I'm surprised by how many times we've said what the margins are, and so many didn't believe it. The very first response (mine) said it was around 10%, yet many on this post thought we were speaking out of our ass. It took four pages later to figure out we weren't? The OP asked for responses from those who knew what the margins were. Jeff, Bruce, et. al., knew what it was, and others disagreed because "it simply wasn't possible." An interesting thread, indeed.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>Tonai correctly wrote, "<em>...as the others have mentioned, the hard equipment (cameras, lenses etc) are loss leaders. The profit margins are extremely low while the soft goods (filters, cases, memory cards, etc.) are marked up much more to compensate. The soft goods used to also include film, darkroom supplies, finishing, etc. Since film, darkroom supplies and finishing are drying up, this is a reason why stores are struggling. They can't make up the losses with the hard goods</em>."</p> <p>Very similar to good bike shops -- the bike itself is close to break-even or a loss-leader. The profit comes from you buy all of the numerous accessories: tubes, tires, clothes, gloves, socks, etc. etc. profit comes from mechanical work and repairs and parts replacement and parts upgrades. </p> <p>They (shops) want long-term, stable customers. The initial big ticket sale items is to start gaining your loyalty.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markdeneen Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <blockquote> <p>"I'm surprised by how many times we've said what the margins are, and so many didn't believe it. The very first response (mine) said it was around 10%, yet many on this post thought we were speaking out of our ass. It took four pages later to figure out we weren't?"</p> </blockquote> <p>Well gee, fortunately you weren't injured in the process, huh? The heaviest thing hurled were a couple of words. No bricks or anything dangerous. You want a medal?</p> <p>IME, a lot of people say a lot of things on the Internet. Do you believe everyone you read? 'Cuz, I don't. it took me a bit to find some reasonable evidence, but I did and promptly admitted my error. What else ya' want? Blood?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_rockwood Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>A good educational experience. No wonder so many camera stores are going out of business.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaglow Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 <p>No, Mark, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_taylor5 Posted November 2, 2010 Share Posted November 2, 2010 <p>I was talking to the owner of a local photo shop last June. He is having a hard time because the distributors charge him more for a camera then what the on line sellers sell cameras for. And they require him to buy a minimum order to remain an authorized dealer.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now