Filling Those #@&% Stainless Reels

<p>Hey I just push Hewes because they are well made, available and work. I never said critisized any other brand. Loading curly 120 on a plastic reel can be fustrating. Only takes me a few tries with the Hewes.</p>

<p>Well, my SS reels are brand new, and they aren't bent, so clearly it's my poor technique creating my problem. I will waste a roll to practice in daylight as suggested. That makes a lot of sense since they film is $3 and a new Paterson kit is $28 plus shipping. I'll spend the $3 and see if I can learn! If not, then I'll spend the $28.</p>

<p>I was trying to clip the end under that funky little clip. I like the sound of letting it be free so you can test it by gliding it back and forth a bit. And, if I can touch it with clean hands, that will make it easier than what I was attempting. It's funny - I watched two videos on developing film in a can, and neither one mentioned that this part was tricky. I though the tricky part would be timing the exact developer time, or taking the right temperature. Turns out that stuff was trivial!</p>

<p>One more point of confusion: Does emulsion in or out matter? Seems like the natural curl is emulsion in, right?</p>

<p>In or out what ever works for you. it depends on the curl of the film for me. There are plastic reels that will fit in SS cans... I know I use them from time to time.</p>

<p>Mark ;</p>

<p>Normally one loads the reel so the curl of the film matches the reels curvature; ie emulsion in.There really is no rule; it just often loads easier this way.</p>

<p>With a 120 reel with a clip; to me it is a curse or blessing.</p>

<p>It does hold the film's end; BUT it also can have the film so it feeds screwball; ie *IF* the z height is wrong a tad thus you derail and muff up the roll. I learned to load film without clips. Without a clip the film is not constrained; but one has to not pull the film out while winding it on.</p>

<p>With the reel in my left hand I can feel the ends of the outer spirals; so I know the reels orientation. Then I rotate it to find the inner inside start/launching area. Some 120 films curl more than others; I load the outer; say frame #12's end of a MF 6x6 120 end first; without even removing the film/backing/spool yet. If no clip I use a finger to hold the safety end and then just spin the reel and work in the film. Thus with me; the start of the roll is the outer part of the reel.</p>

<p>Some folks remove the whole film from the back and load the reel; I use to do it that way.</p>

<p>Just practice with a dud roll.</p>

<p>A kink on the film is what all of us have done before; it leaves curved marks that show on the image<br>

With a bent reel they are normally so the spacing between the wheel/ends are closer; thus the film is too tight. This can drive one goofy because in the dark one at first thinks one is loading it wrong. There needs to be some clearance; the film needs to be a tad loose in the z height</p>

<p>UPDATE:<br>

I began practicing with a roll in the light a few minutes ago. I couldn't get it to load at all. I started looking carefully at the reel. I got suspicious and went and got a machinists caliper and measured the interior of the reel at four points. Guess what? This brand new reel (Made in China) is uneven by more than 1/10th of an inch! Inside the smallest side it is 2.30 and inside the larger side it is 2.42! I just know that ain't never going to work.</p>

<p>I will try to return this where I bought it and exchange it for a Paterson Universal. I suspect that every SS reel being sold today is from this same source in China. If so you could go through a 100 units trying to find one that's plumb and may never get one.</p>

<p>RANT ON. ARGHHHH! As a guy who has lots of hobbies working with my hands, I have come to hate Chinese stuff with a passion. Screws with no heads, nails made of soft steel, bolts with defective threads, tools that rust in a week, stuff that's out of square, out of round, out of plumb and just out of this world crappy. It's making me nuts. RANT OFF.</p>

<p>And every mystery has an answer. Yes MADE IN CHINA is not good for anyone but the Chinese and importers. Well I do love ERA Chinese film.</p>

<p>Mark; back in the 1960's many off brand low cost SS reels were from Taiwan/Formosa and normally were ok to good. Items made in mainland China today can be excellent to crap.</p>

<p> Your bent reel might have been made that way; or one that was crushed; or QC is poor.</p>

<p>I have some friends that bought some no name Chinese reels and they work well.</p>

<p>Good that you found the problem!</p>

<p>If it makes you feel good; most ball bearings today are made in China; thus those L-; L-6 sets on your car are not USA Timkens; but some Chinese brand.</p>

<p>One more for Hewes reels- they are made of heavier gauge wire which helps a lot. I had a heck of a time with cheap reels at first too, and no problems since switching,</p>

<p>SS reels are great until you drop 'em. Usually that bends one of the channels enough that it will difficult to load. Better reels like Hewes or well-cared for vintage Nikors and Kindermans seem less likely to suffer damage. I think Omega may have marketed SS reels back when their enlargers were popular. Most of my reels and tanks are from the 70's and 80's. Kalt reels are not so good, though. Had a few left over stock from the family camera store when it closed in 1993. I threw one away and just left the other two in their boxes. Most tanks that take SS reels use less solution than the tanks that take plastic reels. The budget Freestyle plastic reels and tanks work well enough. I bought one to process the occasional roll of 127.</p>

<p>Mike? Was that store in Great Falls Montana? There was a closed Photo store with your last name when I moved there around that time frame. It was on 3rd or 1st street if I remember. as 2nd street ran one way to the down town.</p>

<p>Well, the online store had no problem taking them back, so they are on the way. I went ahead and ordered the Paterson set, since there was lots of good recs for that one. I hate being out of the action now for another week waiting for new stuff to arrive.</p>

<p>Thanks for all the good tips and tricks here fellas. I hope next week when the new stuff arrives I wont be cussing it out too!</p>

 

<p>You will Love plastic...... :)</p>

<p>Sorry, Larry. That store was in Mississippi. My father opened the store in 1974. My mother and I (after school hours both high school and college) helped run it. After I started teaching I worked Saturdays and holidays. We closed in 1993.</p>

<p>Wow the time frame was so close... well glad it gave you the bug.</p>

<p>Plastic reels can be easier, but for the long run, stainless steel Hewes reels are the way to go. They are expensive but the film goes on much better than cheaper stainless reels. I agree that the trick is to get the film on straight at the beginning. Off a little in the beginning and you have big problems further along. Make sure you listen. You can usually hear when the film is not tracking correctly. You can hear it buckle. I pull the paper in a right hand holding the roll in me left. When I get to the film, I let the film roll into my left while stripping off the backing in my right. I found that when I try to load at the same time as stripping the paper, I just have 5 times as many problems. Get rid of the paper at the beginning. After stripping the paper, I switch the roll to the right, pick up the reel in my left and insert the end in the reel clip. I then set the reel on a table in the darkroom. and roll the reel along the table to the left while lightly pinching the film in my right as it feeds onto the reel. I roll the reel about 6 inches then pick it up and move it back to the start and then roll on another 6 inches. Goes very fast and keeps the reel and film angles consistent every time I do it.</p>

<p>There is no secret to what you want to learn..<br>

You did the right thing by practicing in the light....<br>

I've loaded literally thousands of rolls into stainless steel reels without problems...<br>

And they clean much easier in my opinion...<br>

Pretty soon you'll be a pro! :-)</p>

<p>I haven't used steel reels in 20 years. I found that loading a steel reel was nothing more than an masochistic experience. I switched to plastic and <em>never</em> looked back.</p>

<p>I'm not proud, I have and use both plastic and stainless reels. Some days my hands are fumbly and I'll use the plastic reels. Works just fine with any standard processing technique. Main reason I use stainless reels is for stand development or semi-stand with longer intervals between agitations.</p>

<p>It's fairly easy to find good quality plastic reels - the knockoffs I have are just as good as the Patersons. But that doesn't apply to stainless. The cheap *new* stuff is usually junk. But you can occasionally luck into some top notch older Nikor (one "k") stainless reels for cheap, and they're every bit the equal to Hewes. I have both Nikor and Hewes reels in 120 and they're indistinguishable other than the direction of the wire spring clip.</p>

<p>I learned on Nikor SS reels in high school. I also learned to ignore the blasted clip in the center. Unless you clip the film "just right" (too far in, not in far enough, or off-set to one side) you have all sorts of alignment problems. I found just sticking the end into the center and letting it float, self aligned the film when I started turning and loading the reel.<br>

The other reasons for using SS stuff was<br>

- I used to develop in a water bath to keep the developer at a constant temp for those 15min development.<br>

- Easier to wash and dry SS reels so I could develop another roll right after. We could never get all the water out of the tracks of the plastic reels. No canned/compressed air available.<br>

Just use whatever works for you.</p>

<p>The OP said he was working in what I take to be a plastic changing bag or pop-up. My experience is that these things sweat-up quickly, producing enough moisture to bind up film-loading on plastic reals. I tried and tried to use one of these. Once I moved into blacked-out bathroom: no binding, and the film went onto the plastic "Pats" as slick as can be. Plastic reels MUST be dry. Humidity hurts.</p>

<p>"The OP said he was working in what I take to be a plastic changing bag or pop-up."<br>

======<br>

Yes, I have the PhotoFlex Change Room, which is a rigid pop-up about 18" cubed. I didn't notice a lot of sweat. I live in a cool climate.</p>

<p>Mark, I'm just getting back into shooting film and processing B&W at home. I had started with Paterson years ago, and then switched to Kinderman steel tanks and reels, largely because the owner of the shop I dealt with showed me the loader that worked with the reels. This time around I opted for Paterson, largely because a friend had some old System 4 tanks and reels in storage, and in relearning how to load the reels I discovered that if I ignore the "hold one side of the reel, rotate the other" method, I can load the reels much faster, and with no binding as I reach the end of the roll. What I do is hold the reel in my left hand with the entry track facing right, positioned at 12:00, with the tabs even. Bending the film slightly, I then feed it into the entry track. Releasing a little of the pressure used to bend the film, and the film should engage on the ball bearings. At that point I can just push the film into the reel all the way to the end. If I feel any binding along the way, it's because the angle between the entry of the reel and where I'm feeding the film from has drifted up or down, and is easily corrected. With a little bit of practice I was able to load a roll of 135-36 in about 30 seconds, less than half the time of recommended method. The biggest advantage of this method for me is that the film doesn't bind as you get to the end of the roll where it was wound the tightest in the spool. I know you're shooting 120, but I suspect my method will work the same. I hope to find out myself pending the result of an eBay auction on Tuesday.</p>

<p>I was very fortunate with a find at the thrift store 6 years ago. 2 8 oz tanks, 1 16 oz tank, 2 35mm reels and 2 120 reels, all Nikor, all appearing new in the box for $25 USD. I also have a Paterson 2 reel style tank, a Paterson 1 reel (35mm) tank and some miscellaneous other tanks. I use the Nikor stuff 99% of the time because they use less chemistry. SS tank 8 oz of chemistry to 12 oz in the Paterson to do the same job. That is a third more chemistry. Like Lex, if I get a roll that is just kicking my ass, I will get out the Paterson and load and go. It doesn't happen to often but it is nice to have, for me as a back up system. I do practice every once in awhile just for fun, waiting to finish up a roll so I can do it for reals. <br>

I recently bought some stuff from an estate sale. One of the items was in a blue generic box that simply said "120 Tank High Grade Stainless Steel" with a silver sticker that states "With 2 pcs of 35mm Reels" and "Made in Japan" on the bottom. The tank is a look alike to my Nikor 120 tank, the reels have the film clip in the center. I took my scrap practice piece of film and loaded them both. They are both straight and load fairly easy. They do have this tiny piece of flat stainless that has "made in japan" on each of the reels. These look exactly like the ones everyone uses on ebay when they are sellng "Minty Vintage Nikor Reels". </p>

<p>With either system though there is one big plus, you are doing it yourself. Have fun with it. Don't let it get you discouraged, when you find that something has gone wrong, post a question with a sample. Chances are very high that you will get an answer quickly that will help solve your problem. </p><div></div>

<p>All this talk about not using the clips on the reels made me get out my old stainless reels and try to spool on some out-of-date film that I'd been given. I clipped off the leader, and spooled straight onto the reel our of the cassette. Now I've not done this in well more than 25 years, but this was by far the easiest that the film wound onto any reel I've loaded.<br>

Lo and behold, when I looked at the bottom of the tank the reels came from, it's a Nikor set! I had no idea.<br>

Is there any reason not to spool the film onto the reel directly out of the 35mm cassette? What I mean is to retrieve and clip off the leader, pull out a few inches of film from the cassette, start it on the reel, and unload the cassette as I wind the film onto the developing reel. At the end, snip off the tail, and feed the remainder onto the reel. This seemed to work very well for me. recently.<br>

In the past, all I'd ever done was pop the cassette open, and spool onto the reel either from the 35mm spool, or even remove the film from the spool, and wind it onto the reel.</p>

<p>"Is there any reason not to spool the film onto the reel directly out of the 35mm cassette?"</p>

<p>I've done it and it works but I find it easier without the tension the cassette creates.</p>