Trip to Spain - 16-35mm?

<p>Hi all. I'm leaving in a few days for Spain and I'm having second thoughts about my lens selection...<br>

Starting with a D700 as a base (because that's all I've got...), I wanted to focus on lighter weight items as we'll be doing a good amount of walking and getting around. I'm less a street photographer and more of a landscape kind of guy...<br>

I'd planned on bringing my trusty 20mm f/2.8 and my 70-300mm f/4-5.6 for anything that might be on the longer end of things. And my tripod for night stuff (lightweight enough for hikes).<br>

Recently I've been batting around the idea of picking up the 16-35mm f/4 for the trip. I know it's a big lens, and a heavy one at that, and I love shooting wide, but wondering from people with experience with it regarding it's size and heft tradeoffs to the advantages of it over a fixed 20mm 2.8...<br>

My other consideration is a big camera with a bigger lens makes one a bigger target - particularly in Barcelona where we'll be spending some time.<br>

I'm hoping to get it eventually, just wondering if I should be sooner than later...</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I think you'll be pretty limited with just the 20/2.8. I do a lot of travel photography and have found over the years that most of my shots happen between 28mm and 85mm. That's not to say that a 20 isn't useful, but I don' t think it works as your only lens under 70mm.</p>

<p>I haven't used the 16-35, and probably never will because of it's size...but it would be a fantastic option.</p>

<p>You might just want to add the fairly inexpensive and fantastic 35/2. It's small and light and will work well on your D700.</p>

<p>I was in Barcelona last year....great city.</p>

<p> That gap between 20mm & 70mm is yawning. Normally, I'd strongly advise against buying a new optic days before a trip, but not in this case. And if size/weight is a consideration, the 16-35 is not the lens. A 24-85 Nikkor would probably be my choice.</p>

<p>I have been Spain. It might help if we knew where you are going in Spain. I can recommend some great places.</p>

<p>On the D700, a 20mm is a super wide and the 70-300 is a tele zoom. If you have no other lens, that seems to be a rather odd combination with a lot of missing ground in the mid-range area.</p>

<p>If you want small lenses, you should get a DX body. When your only body is a D700, by its nature the lenses tends to be bigger, unless you restrict yourself to some old-fashioned f2.8 primes.</p>

<p>I can scare up a 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5 for the trip pretty easy. Shot with it before, it seems an easily portable lens. Seems a sane decision.<br>

The itinerary for Spain includes Madrid, Granada and Barcelona.</p>

<p>I used to own the 24-85/3.5-4.5. That would be an excellent choice, as would the 28-105/3.5-4.5 that gets fine reviews for use on FX bodies.</p>

<p>So in addition to the 24-85, anything that I'm going to wish that I had when I'm there?<br>

And thanks to all for that suggestion - likely would have been kicking myself at some point.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Hal, have a great trip! I'm going to Madrid-Cadiz-Ferrol Spain for a whirlwind work trip in October myself. I don't expect to have a lot of time for extended shooting but I'm bringing my D300 and working on my own lens selection... I understand this is a pretty nice time of year to be over there.</p>

<p>If I was taking my 'FX' F5 I'd probably go with my 35-70/2.8 as the main lens because I really like that combo. I haven't shot witht he 24-85 but I've heard plenty of good things about it. If your ok with variable aperture and are willing to pick up a new lens why not rent the new 28-300mm VR lens that came out? </p>

<p>I'm considering picking up the 18-200 for my trip... it would be a new acquisition though so if I was packing tonight I think I'd go with -</p>

<p>D300 w/out grip<br>

11-16/2.8<br>

35/1.8 or 20-35/2.8<br>

75-150/3.5 MF Series E or 180/2.8<br>

FG with 50/1.8 Series E & 4 rolls of Ektar 100</p>

<p>Still have to noodle out the 35 v 20-35 and 75-150 v 180... everything I've read about spain, especially Madrid is that wide angle is usefull which is why I'm set on the 11-16.</p>

<p>Back to your question, I have shot with the 20/2.8 on my F5 a fair bit and found it really nice for landscape situations. It's compact size was a nice plus. I didn't use it much in cities but would expect it to work pretty well there too. I had the 16-35 on my camera in the store a couple weeks ago, it is BIG! By big I mean long, its as long as my 180/2.8 in fact, I found that to be somewhat awkward in the store but I'm sure it is a great lens as well.</p>

 

<p>I did not make to Barcelona but have heard good things about it. In Madrid, there is the palace and the Prada and Reina Sophia museums and various plazas especially plaza de major and del sol. You have to check your camera when you enter the RS. I don't mean examine it. I mean that they take it. The RS is where Picasso's Guernica is shown. Down know about camera policy at the Prada but it likely the same. In the vicinity of Madrid are a magnificent Roman aqueduct at Segovia, King Phillip's magnificent palace called El Escorial, and the Valley of the Fallen, Franco's tribute to fascism which has a mammoth cross, on the scale of the Washington monument. Toledo is not far from Madrid and has a beautiful cathedral and a a nice musem devoted to El Greco, where you can photograph. The ride from Madrid to Seville is on a bullet train and is wonderful, fast and silent. Seville has a great castle and the 3rd or 4th largest cathedral in the world, and contains Columbus' remains. You climb the giralda, formerly a Muslim minaret, but now part of the cathedral. Granada and the Alhambra are wonderful beyond words. Spain is a beautiful country with a great history and an attractive and friendly population. If I spoke Spanish, I would consider moving there. Best of luck. It is a photographer's dream.</p>

<p>I agree with a previous poster that a 28 to 85mm zoom would be very useful. I don't think the 70-300 zoom would be very useful. I would also carry at least one fast prime for some of the interior shots since flash is often frowned on.</p>

<p>Her's some shots with the Nikon 20 f2.8 AIS, F100 in Cologne </p><div></div>

<p>more</p><div></div>

<p>1 more</p><div></div>

<p>James, thanks for the tips. Looking forward to seeing if I can get to any of those spots. And after flying into Madrid we'll be taking trains to get around - definitely looking forward to that as an alternative to more tin-can flying...<br>

We've already got tix to Alhambra, definitely looking to spend some time there.<br>

I've got the 50mm f/1.8 that I could toss in there, wondering if that will be too long for most museums. I barely ever use the thing, might be worth pressing back into service?</p>

<p>Thanks for those shots. Looks like I should do OK with the 20mm, hopefully for the most part. Worst case I can stitch...</p>

<p>I have 16-35 and this is a great lens for landscape and indoors/ small room when you are on the travel. However, it is quite limited when you want to take some portraits or catch anything far away from you. You need a mid-range or tele definitely.</p>

<p>The question isn't really specific to Nikon. I use Canon, but the decisions are the same.<br /> <br />My own choice for my last trip to Spain was a 17-40 for the days and 50 for night-time. I never ran into a situation where I couldn't find a photo I wanted to take that I couldn't because I didn't have the right lens. Spain is an intimate, warm country, being far away is never appealing. Here's a few shots from that trip.<br /> <br /> <img src="http://spirer.com/spain/food/images/afewbirds.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><br /> <em>A Few Birds, Copyright 2005 Jeff Spirer</em><br /> <em> </em><br /> <img src="http://spirer.com/spain/food/images/hellobirdy.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><br /> <em>Meat, Copyright 2005 Jeff Spirer</em><br /> <em> </em><br /> <img src="http://spirer.com/spain/food/images/sausagelady.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><br /> <em>Sausages, Copyright 2005 Jeff Spirer</em><br /> <em> </em><br /> I love food, in case it isn't obvious, but here's one that isn't food. Everything posted is shot with 17-40 on a 1.6x body.</p>

<p><img src="http://spirer.com/spain/buildings/images/granadascenic.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="480" /><br /> <em>Granada, Copyright 2005 Jeff Spirer</em></p>

<p>If you are headed to Barcelona, just be aware of your surroundings and don't be distracted by a loud, nearby fight or argument...it may just be a ruse to rob you. Don't let large groups of strangers surround you and press against you. Petty theft happens, although I never had a problem this whole past year living in the city. The Gothic area and Las Ramblas late at night are probably the pick pocket hotspots. Check out this thread for more tips: <a href="../travel-photography-forum/00WHV2">http://www.photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00WHV2</a><br>

Have fun!</p>

<p>Hi Hal<br>

Firstly, D700 and a zoom lens is not a light weight discrete setup, nor is it a good travel camera imho. and a tripod for travel.....forget about it. the whole purpose of a small format camera is agility and discreteness, so if you're going to take all of that, then you may as well take a medium format camera. if you must take a thumping big dslr though, then at least try a small 35mm and an 85mm prime lens. </p>

<p>Some thoughts:</p>

<ul>

<li>It doesn`t matter if the lens is a 50, 24-85 or 16-35... (a white 70-200L Canon certainly matters) thiefs (usually chronic junkies) are into that <em>extremely crowded tourist areas</em> looking for that blonde, "odd speaking" guys in a city dressed like British desert explorers in Teva sandals with a huge photo bag and Canon or Nikon logos everywhere. I`d say the best cure is to be just discrete. Dress with international "stardards" (european or american, both are pretty close), carry your gear in a <em>small</em> "neutral" bag, keep your belongings within your sight in that places. In the rest of Spain, you`ll not have a problem.</li>

<li>Jeff`s bag seems perfect to me, as is his approach. Inside buildings (churches and old towns everywhere) the lens is a 16/17-35. Even a 24mm could be bit long in certain places. Outdoors, you can use anything; a good lens could be a 24-85 (the one I use). I use to avoid the 24-70 for better comfort (too heavy).</li>

<li>A 20mm prime is too wide for most places, and I almost never use anything longer than 85 (many monuments will not fit into the frame).</li>

<li>In almost all museums, flash is not allowed, and in some places, cameras are not allowed. Spanish policy about photography is pretty erratical/absurd.</li>

<li>If I were you, I`d take a 16/17-35, a 50 prime (to switch when tired of the zoom and for fun), and I`d leave the 70-300 at home. A 24-85, 24-120 or similar are also good choices to my liking.</li>

<li>Spanish people still use to be extremely kind, but people (workers) at that crowded turist areas could be burnt... if you can, avoid hotels, restaurants and bars for tourists into that areas. Sometimes this cannot be avoided because all the place is a jewel, hence almost everything is directed for tourists (city of Toledo). Ask to "normal" people where you can have lunch (excelent "menus" are around ten euros), take a <em>good</em> guidebook, talk with people (people will be glad to help american visitors, youngers use to "speak" english).</li>

</ul>

<p>I`ll never be tired of visiting Barcelona (only Gaudi`s work is worth a trip), Granada and Toledo (incredible timeless places), if you like paintings, Madrid is a reference (Reina Sofía, Thyssen-Bornemisza and El Prado amongst others). I`ll try to post some pics tonight.</p>

<p>Well, I found Toledo in the Wed Pic archives... (24-70 @ 32mm)<br /> <img src="http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00U/00Uk0U-180219684.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="310" /></p>

<p>Rope-skipping ladies in a small town`s square... also a Wed-Pic (14-24 @ 24mm crop)</p><div></div>

<p>San Miguel`s marketplace (Madrid), now turned into a chic modern all-in-one market&<em>bar de tapas&</em>museum, beautiful but too much artificial to my taste... Wed Pic too (24-85 @ 24mm)<br /> <img src="http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00U/00U0No-156955984.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="482" /></p>

<p>I can play that game as well! I just wanted to add that when I visited Madrid and Toledo last year, the normal range of the lowly 18-55 was mostly fine. In Toledo, though, streets are tight, and both the cathedral and Alcázar are huge in comparison. Thus, the 28mm equivalent is a tad too long. I suppose 24mm could be enough, though.</p>

<p>If the weather in Madrid is fine, I'd like to suggest going to Debod's temple at dusk. There is a nice park there, it's facing west for you sunset oriented people and the lighting of the temple is OK. I'll post a non-optimal resize of my wallpaper, which is a cropped picture I took of it last year. One nice thing about it is that Debod is really close to both the Royal Palace and the Almudena cathedral, both of which have nice lighting for night pictures.</p><div></div>

<p>Currently I am living in Barcelona. As said, watch out at the Ramblas, at the metro entrances/exits at the seaside, and inside the metro as well. It is not a good idea to visit the small streets of the Barrio Gotico and El Raval after 22:00, although the main streets normally should be safe. As a general rule, avoid streets where nobody else is walking but you.<br /><br />A common trick in the metro is that one reads a newspaper right in front of you, and you cannot see what is happening under it with your wallet or your camera bag. <br /><br />Sometimes they use a cutter to open your backbag while you are walking or standing. Other just run behind you and take your cell phone or camera (or whatever hangs loose) on the fly.<br /><br />Don't let people talk to you - what should a native want? Just don't get into conversations, walk on or away. Even I do that. In the metro, there is another annoyance en vogue at the moment. People pass with you through the barrier - sometimes pushing you from behind - without validating a ticket. And if you use a lot of metro/bus/FGC then the T10-1 zone ticket will be the best option.<br /><br />Ok - lens choice...I never took another one than a 35mm/f1.4 or a 50mm with me. For me sufficient for Barcelona.<br /><br />Apart from the usual sightseeing (Sagrada Familia, La Pedrera, Plaza Espanya y Montjuic, La Boqueria) you may get to the PEU DE FUNICULAR station (FGC S1/S2 from Plaza Catalunya to Terrassa/Sabadell), get out, change into the funicular and get off in the middle station carretera de les aigues. Take the way to the left and walk for one or two hours and you have a nice view across the city. Only recommended with good wheather. The faster option is to visit Tibidabo, where you have similar views, and do not have to hike.<br /><br />For the 29 of this month a general strike is planned.<br /><br /><br />Ok - have fun and enjoy.</p><div></div>