E6 Trancparency FIlm equivalent in C41 negative Film... The death of the E6 process???

<p>Hi all,<br>

 

<p>I heard some sad news that the manufactures of the E6 developing chemicals, equipment etc... were drawing the E6 process to an end by the end of 2010/begining of 2011... I don't know if this is just a rumour or if it has some truth behind it but I know that E6 Processing is already trying to be phased out here in the UK... This does outrage me, but i can not say I am surprised...<br>

Regardless of if this is true or not, I am preparing myself for the worst scenario and am looking for a C-41 colour film that is on par or better in terms of colour, saturation and vibrancy as I can get when shooting with Fuji Provia 100 F 120 using my Hasselblad 500 C/M? It has to be fast, so a 100 ISO/ASA rated film, which can be pushed/pulled by at least 2 stops! I use it for shooting fast paced subjects; skateboarding to be exact.<br>

If anyone has more information and a better insight into anything here i would much appreciate your input and feedback!<br>

Thanks in advance!</p>

<br>

N</p>

<p>I don't think E6 chemistry makers are going to stop selling the stuff, considering the film is still selling.</p>

<p>Nathan... what is the source of this dismal rumour?</p>

<p>Until the source and accuracy of information is verified, we might be better served by buying/using a nice Burburry brolley to fend off the falling sky. I wouldn't react quite so emphatically... yet.</p>

<p>Film users love the stuff but filmmakers and makers of the chemicals and the apparatus surrounding processing and printing operate via economy-of-scale. Consider the costs, maintaining production, as sales fall. The digital revelation has given the chemical film making business a kick in the pants. By necessity manufactures are phasing out film. Meanwhile digital technology forges ahead by leaps and bounds. Soon the only place you will see film and its associated apparatus will be at the museum next to the war of 1812's field medical instruments. You can bet there was lots of resistance in the early days of the gas buggy. Think how far we would have come had we not abandoned the horse drawn chariot. </p>

<p>

<p>Yes Andrew, I agree with you, and hope you are right! But obviously you can still by various slide/transparency films, but they don't have to be E6 processed... They can be cross processed...<br />And if you cant process the film the way it was made to be, as many (such as myself) demand on, then what would be the best and most effective way to finally end the E6 process or even the film type itself? I imagine to kill the process could result in the death of the film type also... It seems the industry is driving to eliminate film photography once and for all, leaving digital the sole capturing method for photographers world wide! They have already stopped production of many slide films such as Kodachrome...<br />I think the end of film is inevitable, I hate to say it but look at how the industry and the demand for film and the specific developments have declined rapidly, but there is still hope after all, I mean look at projects and people involved in stuff such as the impossible project! Quite an inspiration!</p>

<br>

Brian, this "story" was from a Lecturer at my old university... I am not convinced either, thus the purpose of this post, to prepare for if this did happen! I have researched into this myself and have found no official statements, but there is clear evidence, you dont have to look around and see that photo labs are dropping the E6 process, and here in the UK it is hard to come by any inhouse photo labs that do it, it is considered a "special" or "unique" item of request! Just from my experience!</p>

<p>I think it is going to be a slow painful death, however, the embers would drag on. Out of the specialist shops, we have two in my city, one would do it in house. The other sends over the film somewhere else. Jessops, the camera chains also send it off and you get it back hopefully within 10 days.</p>

<p>Nathan... there is no doubt that the number of E6 (and C-41, BTW) processors is diminishing, and quickly.</p>

<p>The ones who remain, however, seem to have the volume to support the investment in equipment and staff, etc. It is the kind of consolidation one would expect for a technology that has been superceded by a more pouplar technology. Some day film and film processing may very well come to an end. .. I totally believe that. but before that it will probably transition from film production by the major/traditional film manufacturers to film production by some small niche provider. I suspect the same will happen one day with processing chemistry and equipment. And when that happens, we'll be paying much more than we do today.</p>

<p>Maybe I have my head in the sand because I live in a big city where, even after the consolidation, I have several options for both film buying and film processing. But I agree... it is a lot less convenient to buy/process film than it once was!</p>

<p>I think your lecturer is getting K14 for K64 confused with E6 if he's using a 2010/2011 timeline. It also means he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.</p>

<p>E6 will be around for quite a while. I have no problem find film or labs to do a decent job on it.</p>

<p>I'm sure that Dave Luttmann is correct, and this is confusion of the E6 process with K-14 for Kodachrome, the final processing run of this being at Dwaynes in the US on 30th Dec 2010. This was officially announced by Kodak in June 2009, and reported comprehensively by the general news media, as well as in the photographic press. There are many threads concerning it on this and other forums.<br>

There will be film of one sort or another available for many years yet. Why waste wasting time speculating and worrying, when you can be out shooting pictures.</p>

<p>Well, Kodak announced a "partial" death of E6 - they are no longer selling the 5 liter E6 kit for home users. This has been a big blow for me - I have always used their kit. Now I have to buy the individual chems, incl. starters which will make way more chems than I need. Yes, I can use the Freestyle kit, bu the results did not impress me.</p>

<p>Juergen, when did they announce this? I just bought one, my dealer had no problem getting it.</p>

<p>Adorama announcement: http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=detailsdisc&sku=KKE6SU5L</p>

<p>I called Kodak and they confirmed that the 5L kit is discontinued. You can still buy the individual chems of course, but the quantities for home development are just too big.</p>

<p>E6 never was really available in-house at the big chain shops. Ever since I started, I had to wait a while for E6 to come back where C41 would be done in an hour or so.<br>

And as others have already stated, E6 is in no immediate danger of going away, especially not by 2010/2011. Fuji and Kodak make a load of different E6 films. They also make chemicals. Do you really think they will kill their chemical lines but keep selling the film for it?<br>

Here in Japan the film consumption is quite healthy. If anything the Japanese will keep the film market alive ;)</p>

<p>One Hour E6 is still alive in Seattle, at 60 Minute Capitol Hill Photo. It's a great place, and go there while you can. I've been taking E6 and C41 there for 15 years.</p>

<p>Speaking of Japan, Kodak discontinued E6 kits and Fuji Japan tells me they are no longer selling Fujihunt to home users. Although I can purchase individual Kodak E6 chems in large quantity the dealer also requires a hazmat disposal fee.<br>

~vm~</p>

<p> </p>

<p>For me E-6 is dead as of last month. Currently the cost for me is about $17.00 a roll (cost of film, shipping, processing and shipping again). The closest E-6 lab is 50miles from the house and they do not do anything while you wait. However I have no idea when or if Kodak and Fuji are going to drop E-6 from the line up. It does seems that something gets dropped every week. I just learned yesterday that Leica dropped making film camera's. The owner of Leica said that this is going to hurt film manufacturing and sales.</p>

<p>I'm in the opposite situation from Ross. I just go a couple miles down the road to get my slide film developed. Living near a pro lab makes things much easier all around.</p>

<p>living near a "custom" or pro lab is not always great though. I spent 13$ for processing last spring and got extremely sub-par results. All of my film goes to Dwaynes these days.</p>

<p>Well, I get great results by my standards. That's all that matters to me.</p>

<p>Fuji slide mailer $5.50<br />Postage cost $.45 (10 rolls in a USPS Priority Mail Flat rate Envelope $4.50)<br />Film (Elite Chrome/Sensia/etc. mail order prices) $5<br />$11/Roll total cost</p>

<p>Back in your mailbox in about a week<br>

Other mail order options: The Slideprinter <a href="http://www.slideprinter.com">www.slideprinter.com</a><br>

NCPS - offer famous Ken Rockwell Hi rez scans - <a href="http://northcoastphoto.com/">http://northcoastphoto.com/</a></p>

<p>No need to give up hope folks, there are still options. If they ever kill Slide, it will greatly reduce my interest in photography. Yes, I have a DSLR and digital PS, but dont get the same enjoyment out of it. Neg film, while great for people pics again just doesnt do it for me like Slide does.<br>

And no way Ektar even comes close to a replacement for E-6 IMO.</p>

<p>I'm just getting to the "acceptance" stage of losing Kodachrome! I hope E-6 sticks around for a while yet. For what I do, I have little use for digital and no use for C-41. When they say Ektar is a suitable replacement for any kind of slide film, have they tried looking at it through a slide viewer? Not so hot. When I can no longer shoot slides, I guess I'll change gears and jump back into B&W with both feet.</p>

<p> </p>

<p ><a name="00X9HZ"></a><em><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=528518">Dave Luttmann</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Frequent poster" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/1roll.gif" alt="" /></a>, Aug 25, 2010; 02:38 p.m.</em></p>

 

<p><em>I think your lecturer is getting K14 for K64 confused with E6 if he's using a 2010/2011 timeline. It also means he hasn't a clue what he's talking about.</em><br>

<em>E6 will be around for quite a while. I have no problem find film or labs to do a decent job on it.</em><br>

Dave, I couldn't agree more.<br>

Those labs that are any good are still doing reasonable business.<br>

Nathan, given you are in the UK I would strongly recommend Peak Imaging in Sheffield. They are a pro lab specialising in E6, are good value, and offer instant turnaround. Might just give you a bit more hope for the future!<br>

<em> </em></p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"I just learned yesterday that Leica dropped making film cameras."</p>

</blockquote>

<p><a href="http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/news/1729979/leica-we-producing-film-cameras">False rumor</a>.</p>

<p>The lay public seems to think that low volume optical items on an assembly like with a fixed number of items per week; like cars coming off an assembly line. As I have mentioned already a zillion times; low volume optical items are made in BATCHES. The lay here never understand this. It is just like cookies; folks make batches of them. This is because it reduces costs; the setup cost is spread across many units. Folks did this 4000 years ago with spears; bread; picking fruit. On idiot climbs up a tree for one fruit; he picks several.</p>

<p>Stuff like super telephotos; super fisheyes; enlarging lenses; slow moving camera bodies are made in batches. When inventory of the item gets low; a reorder happens and another batch is made.</p>

<p>The layman's brain has this model where it is in production or not. They do not understand the batch process. Their simpleton brain wants a black and white answer. They cannot fathom that maybe airconditioners might not be made in December; or Xmas cookies in January. In their mind if Xmas cookies are not made in Feburary in Iowa; there will be no more Xmas cookies every made.</p>

<p>Very few folks here understand that many consumer items are made in batches.</p>

<p>Leica will make more batches as long as folks buy them.</p>

<p>Once it becomes like enlarging lenses; there maybe no more batches every made. This is due to too much inventory and too much used stuff too.</p>

<p>The layman's brain wants to not understand the batch process. Folks do not stick one lenses elements into a vacuum chamber for one lens; unless it is military or test prototyping. They place many in at once; to cut costs.</p>

<p>Maybe it is the entrance of manufacturing; and the lack of folks cooking that makes understanding a batch process so difficult.</p>

<p>Look at Nikon's 9000 scanner; new ones being sold this spring were built 1.5 years ago. If the sales volume is enough; another batch might be built. If it peters out and new old stock is still around in another year; they may not make another batch.</p>

<p>The batch process ALWAYS has one starting and stopping production; the real question is whether another batch is made again.</p>

<p>Even when the last batch is made companies do not declare aways that it was the last batch. The advertising has to stay up so the pipeline of product is moved.<br>

Thus Kodak had NEW lenses for Retina SLR in there 1976 catalog; that was stuff built the decade before</p>

<p>I have a few new thoughts about E-6. Today I got back four rolls of EB from KS. They were accompanied by Kodak Picture CD scans. The scans were flat in color and not very sharp. This was disappointing because I looked at the scans first. I later looked at the slides with an old 50/1.4 Nikkor S, reversed. The slides turned out to be a lot sharper than they looked on the CDs but I noticed some other problems. There were scratches on some of the slides which could not have been caused by either camera. I used an F-1 and an FTbN. There was also plenty of dirt and even some "hairs" which looked like paper fibers where the cardboard mounts meet the slides. My guess is that the slides were scanned after being mounted and that the ICE was turned way up to cover up the sloppy work. I now think that the fact Fuji slide mailers are no longer available is not such a loss. What's the use of having inexpensive processing if the results are not good? The rest of my supply of E-6 film will go to A&I or Denver Digital Imaging. If their services become unavailable I guess I will have to get an E-6 kit and do it myself. No matter how good the slide film is or how many types remain on the market, if decent processing isn't available it won't stay around for long. </p>