Mamiya 7 or Bronica RF645

<p>Hi Folks,<br>

Been trying to decide between a Mamiya 7 or a Bronica RF645. I know the Mamiya gives a bigger neg, and that the Bronica has the vertical viewfinder, etc, etc. What I'm more curious about is the <em>loudness</em> of the Bronica. I've used the Mamiya 7 and its absolutely quiet shutter was a big advantage for the kind of discreet street shooting I do. I've read somewhere online that the Bronica makes a kind of burbling electronic noise after the shutter is fired. Can anyone weigh in on this? Is it really noticable, or barely noticable? I'm very tempted by the Bronica's size and price, but I need a <em>quiet</em> camera.<br>

Thanks!</p>

<p>Also, does anyone know the relative quietness of the<em> Fuji</em> 645, the point & shoot one? Some people are saying it is quiet, some loud as hell. Word on the street is that it has a quiet shutter but some sort of loud 'after-click' and auto wind?<br>

Apologies if these questions have already been answered somewhere on the forums.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>If you are basing a large part of your decision on shutter loudness, and are not adverse to buying used (e.g., Fuji 645 or Bronica), you might consider the Mamiya 6, which immediately preceded and was for some time produced concurrently with the Mamiya 7. It is much more compact than the 7 and preferable in my mind to the 7 for street shooting (no need to tilt camera as it is a 6 x 6, less bulky, and with an equally quiet shutter and excellent lenses, although somewhat less of a choice there). I have now had three over the last ten years or so and have loved them, and they have required only nominal repair and service in my case. A chap in Japan turns them up occasionally on the big site in mint condition, with standard 75mm f3.5 lens attached, for about 1200$.</p>

<p>I don't know about the Bronica but I own a Mamiya 7 and it is very quiet. Sometimes I am not sure that I took a photo because of the lack of auditory cue. The Fuji 645's are also quiet, although not as quiet as the Mamiya. I own a GS645W because it is very compact and light, even compared with the Mamiya, and has a very sharp wide-angle lens.</p>

<p>I have the Mamiya 6MF and can confirm it's very quiet. All you get when you press the shutter is a soft "click" comparable to closing the snaps on a light jacket. In loud conditions the only way I know the shutter fired is that I can advance the film!</p>

<p>I love the look and size of the Mamiya 6, but I have trouble working with the square format. I recently bought a hasselblad thinking I could crop to a rectangle after the fact, but I've found that working method to be a bit of a disaster. So it's no on the Mamiya 6.<br>

I'm now very curious about the Fuji 645. A lot of photography that I do happens pretty fast, on the spur of the moment, with not much time to react. I'm quite tempted by the point and shot aspect of it for that reason, although also worried about quality, and as I said before, <em>noise</em>. Anyone else want to weigh in on the sounds of the Fuji?</p>

 

<p>Jamie,</p>

<p>Ken Rockwell in his review loved the M6 (produced from 1989 - 1999) over the current M7, except for the advantage of the very wide 43mm lens on the latter. He thought the 35mm panoramic and 6 x 4.5 adapters a bit idiotique, but had this to say about the Mamiya 6 MF (Multi-Format) version of the Mamiya 6, with its 6 x 4.5 adapter:</p>

<p>"One of these adapters masked 6 x 6 film down to 6 x 4.5, making the top and bottom edges of the frame black, and still giving you the same 12 or 24 exposures."</p>

<p>So you can always have your cake and eat it, although you wouldn't get the 15 exposures of the Bronica or Fuji 645. But if you cannot or don't want to mask the Hassy or Mamiya 6x6cm frame to 6 x 4.5 mentally, the Mamiya 6MF is one excellent way to go, especially for its automated exposure and super silent shutter. It's 50 and 75 mm lenses are quite exceptional (been making large prints from them for ten years now), and the 50mm is great for street shooting.</p>

<p>As for the shutter sound of the Fuji 645, I have no idea. It could be quiet (like the new Fuji 67 or its sister the Bessa 667), or it could be like my Fuji GSW 690, as noisy as an MF SLR like the Mamiya RB67 or RZ67. Why not contact a repair person (Maybe <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1899361">Gus Lazzari</a> of Photo.Net, who works on Leicas and other RF cameras)? They see and hear these cameras all the time.</p>

<p>The recent edition of B&W Photography (the British version) reviewed the new Bessa 667 (Fuji 67) and found that despite its positive attributes the construction was somewhat flimsy, not what they would have anticipated in that price range. Of course, this has little to do with the fomer Fuji models. The 690 is quite well made, if a bit "clunky" (shutter sound, shutter speed setting ring, retracting lens shade action - but these are not deal breakers considering its type of use).</p>

<p>I have a Fujifilm GA645 and it is noisier than the Mamiya. The shutter is pretty quiet, but it makes quite a noise as the camera hunts to focus. The motor that drives the auto focus reminds me of the film advance on most 35mm film cameras. <br>

I also own a Mamiya 7 and 7II. The body on the Fuji is about the same size as the Mamiya. The main size difference comes from the lens. Of course, with the Fuji, you give up changing lenses. The Mamiya is very quiet. I have shot it at school concerts and plays without distracting the people next to me.</p>

<p>I use the Mamiya the vast majority of the time. It gives the bigger negative with little more size or weight. Plus I like to carry two or three lenses with me when I travel. I do think the lenses on the Mamiya are superior to the lens on the Fuji.<br>

That said, the Mamiya is quite an investment, especially if you are going to get the 43mm lens, which is excellent. The Fuji is much less expensive. </p>

<p>Also, I prefer to shoot in manual mode. The controls on the Mamiya are easier for me to use. The shutter speed dial is on the top and the aperture control is on the lens. The Fuji uses a dial and a small button that has to be pressed. I have never gotten comfortable with it. I find it takes me much longer to adjust shutter speed and aperture on the Fuji. But then, I grew up with a Canon AE-1 and grew used to the placement of aperture and shutter controls common to it and the Mamiya. YMMV.</p>

<p>One last thing. I don't find that much improvement over 35 mm with the 645 negative. It is quite a leap to the 6x7 negative of the Mamiya from 35 mm. The 645 does come closer to the aspect ratio of the 35 mm frame, however. If you are used to shooting 35 mm, the Fuji or other 645 camera may be an easier adjustment than the more square 6x7 format. Personally, I shoot a lot of 8x10, which the 6x7 fits with quite nicely. I just see better in that format. Again, YMMV. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Thanks everyone,<br>

Ok, in view of that last response I'm going to pass on the Fuji.<br>

That leaves the Mamiya 7 & 6 and the Bronica, which no one has weighed in on yet in terms of noise.<br>

Anyone?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Sorry, just to clarify:<br>

In that last post I meant that no one had weighed in yet on the Bronica.</p>

 

<p>I have a Bronica RF645, and the noise they talk about is barely audible. Mostly it's you that will hear it, not your subjects. On a noisy street, I don't even hear the little "wheeze" when I fire the shutter. For me, it took some getting used to the vertical image, but after a while, I found myself tilting my 35mm film cameras and DSLR to vertical as well! One advantage to the Bronica is that a body and lens seem to sell in the $800-$1000 range, while the Mamiya 7 is easily higher than $2000. I like the images I get from the Bronica, it's a real trustworthy shooter. For 6x7 I use a late-model Rapid-Omega 200 that I got for $525, with 58, 90 and 180mm Hexanon lenses that are tops. The Mamiya 7 is awful pretty, but awful pricey too.</p>

<p>I can't comment on the Bronica, but I have owned the M6 & M7 and shutter noise is virtually the same. I ultimately sold the M6, complete with all three lenses for the following reasons;</p>

<p>(1) I never really embraced the square format, even though I do crop to square occasionally, and</p>

<p>(2) lens choice, and quality of the standard lens. I started shooting 35mm, where the 35mm and 24mm focal lengths were my favorites. The 50-75-150 range of the M6 is like 35-50-100 on 35mm... <em>using horizontal coverage</em>. The M7's 43-50-65-80-150 equates to 21-25-35-40-80, duplicating my favorite 24 and 35mm lenses. With the M7, I use the 65mm most often, followed by the 80 which I think of as a<em> less wide 35mm</em>, then the 50 and 150, in that order. I had the 43 for a couple of years, but found it too wide for my liking and replaced it when the 50 became available. Also, while the M6 75mm is a very good lens, it is not the equal of the M7 80mm, particularly the contrast.</p>

<p>I do however wish the M7 lenses collapsed into the body like the M6's did.</p>

<p>I've always been curious about the Bronica but I do own a Mamiya 7 along with the superb. 65mm lens. I really can't say enough good things about it. A Leica is loud in comparison and the big negative can't be beat. </p>

<p>Thanks everyone who has responded to my original post. I've decided to go with the Bronica RF645, mainly for it's size and portability, as well its sturdy look (I tend to be a little hard on cameras, pulling them in and out of my bag quickly. The mamiya's fragile, slender looking lens worries me in that respect.)<br>

I'm still a little worried about the noise of the Bronica (which I've heard described as everything from a tiny mouse squeak to a deflating wheeze to a metallic crunch) but I figure if it's more quiet than my old hasselblad then it should be fine.<br>

My last question is where does one find one these things?? Ebay has had only two on offer in the last month. KEH has a few bodies, but no complete packages. I've yet to see one on craigslist. Anyone know a good place to buy a Bronica RF645?</p>

<p>Assuming you're in the USA try KEH or Koh's. It took Bronica a long time to get the 645 to market and still longer to finalise the lens array. This means that not too many were sold before it was discontinued, whereas the Mamiya had a run of at least a decade and so are much easier to buy. I'm sure you'll find one, but probably best if you don't have any deadlines.</p>

<p>One question, would getting a Bronica RF645 a bad decision given Tamron may not support it much longer? I am looking at it from serviceability and parts point of view.</p>

<p>I've recently had an RF645 serviced. A bit of a wait for parts to come from Japan, but now I have a beautifully functional camera. The shutter is like a whisper.</p>