Im Blown Away By the Image Quality of the Mamiya RB67 !

<p>Glad you're hooked Jon. For black and whites, I use Ilford FP4 or Kodak Portra NC. The FP4 has a very 'noir' look to it, and is usually my go-to. When I want a little cleaner look, I actually use the colour NC. The new formula has better tonal range and grain, and makes excellent black and whites. Not as good as actual black and white film, but much better than C41 BW, and much cleaner. The trick is to overexpose by about a stop, give or take depending on the contrast of the scene. This often results in colour shift, but once you process the files in Lightroom/Photoshop/Aperture and raise the black level, you get a much broader tonal range than if you had exposed normally. The same goes for darkroom printing - it looks awesome, but you'll have an extremely long exposure because of the orange base.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4614514688/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4614514688/</a><br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4613898193/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4613898193/</a><br>

Shot with 400NC<br>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4613898127/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/zack_zoll/4613898127/</a><br>

Shot with 160NC</p>

<p>Incredible. I AM amazed that digital hasn't caught up to film, of all types, yet! Maybe I switched too soon. But it's the price we pay for convenience. Although someday it will catch up once the noise problem is resolved. Its just a matter of time.</p>

<p>So where can one get 120 film processed these days?</p>

Are there other differences/characteristics that separate film from digital, other then resolution? I like the tonality and

general "look" of black and white film

The funny thing is, I almost completely stoped using the 5d because of the suze and weight with the prime L lens.

Especially for street type stuff.

Now I buy this Mamiya and it makes the 5d look like a Holga!

 

But it's weird because i don't seem to mind carrying the Mamiya, in fact i kind of enjoy all the strange looks

<p>Jon-<br>

Comparing apples to apples (35mm to "35mm" and 120 to "120"), you'll find well-processed black and white films have a broader tonal range, and colour and slide films are about the same. Black and whites done by anything less than a fantastic lab will be a little better than digital in the range department, at best.</p>

<p>Digital is a much cleaner image, and provides less grain/noise at all ISO levels, assuming we're talking about a new DSLR. However, the noise is a lot more likely to disrupt the image when it does finally show up.</p>

<p>Of course, there is the matter of personal preference. Many people prefer the look of slide film or Portra VC, but that's personal preference. I like film better too (not that I can afford a medium format digital anyway), but I admit it's mostly subjective.</p>

<p>Also note that the Zone System works great with film even if you're just scanning it, but attempting to use it to squeeze out more than an extra stop or two of range with digital will often result in clipped highlights or noisy shadows.</p>

<p>Wayne-<br>

I process black and white in my bathroom using Rodinal. You only need a changing bag, and about $100 should set you up to process at least 30 rolls. Once you run out of chemicals, it should only cost $25-$50 to replace them, depending on what you use. I work at a lab that does colour 120 ... we charge a $8-$15 to develop and scan to a CD, depending on whether you want jpgs of tifs. I think our tif prices are a little low though.</p>

<p>Yep it's stunning all right. It actually makes you improve your technique so that you can be worthy of the camera, unlike all the other cameras that are trying to be worthy of you. Trying to appreciate the scans in the size posted here is like listening to a classical music concert through a telephone handset, but no matter. We shooters of RB67s (Blads, Bronicas, Rolleis) know what you mean. The 67, I think, is easily the best bargain in photography for face-melting image quality for the buck. Try it with Ektar, that stuff rocks. The 50mm C lens is a honey as well. Do you have a trigger side grip and bracket yet? That is very handy for street shooting. I sometimes do action shooting with the 180mm lens, prism finder and side grip; that weighs in around 14 pounds and gets some attention!</p>

 

<p>Jon have a look at my gallery. It's some f my early work, but everything there was taken with a RZ67 and printed uncropped by myself. It's a bit of a chore to use it in the street but it gets easier. Good luck.</p>

<p>Marc, you make me want to take my RZ for a walk.</p>

<p>LOL Andrew. Just remember to pick up after it so nobody gets any stinky surprises on their shoe ;-)</p>

<p>Jon,<br>

Although the discussion is primarily about Mamiya RB67, I share the same experience like yours when I first bought an used Pentax 67 with 55mm Pentax SMC lens. The results are just outstanding. You may like to see some examples in my portfolio (<a href="../photos/jnsengupta">http://www.photo.net/photos/jnsengupta</a>). I really like the 6X7 format and wide dynamic range of film. I use Epson V750 Pro scanner and do not experience any color distortion. Definitely Nikon Coolscan 9000 would be the best, but Epson does fairly good job.<br>

Jyoti</p>

<p>What's wrong with grain anyway? I know it does not suit every photo but in some circumstances it is great. If you are looking for the old time look, then grain is the way to go. Just as a bit of vinguetting is good also, if it suits the purpose. Remember the old Zeiss folding bellows 120 cameras. The look of a picture from those were quite remarkable, slight sepia toning from age (that can now be added with a bit of chem istry) and voila! a pickie of which to be proud.<br>

Now, where is my Pentax 67II? Bother, I sold it. Same as the mamiya 7II. My question to Jon is how the heck do you get away with pointing that RB67 weapon at people in NYC without having it hit over your head? Here, in Oz land, if you point even a relatively small Canon 24 - 105 at someone you are likely to get some rude words at the least, the person of the shot would duck, everyone would see you coming for miles and there would be nothing to shoot.<br>

Lovely pictures tho. Mark</p>

<p>Congrats on your purchase Jon. I too am new to the RB67 Pro, after selling off my Hasselblad equipment to concentrate on 35mm photography (weddings). I was never that happy shooting the 'blad for reasons I won't go into, however the glass was fantastic. I was prepared to take a small hit in IQ with the Mamiya, to gain other advantages such as close focusing and the rotating back. The squate format of the 'blad has its own appeal for certain applications, however it is marketed by 'blad as a convenient feature to allow the photographer to shoot without having to rotate the camera. So by the time you crop the image to your liking, it ends significantly smaller than the 6x7 o 6x8 neg of the Mamiya. I have been pleasantly suprised with the optical prints I have made, and also the scans. The Mamiya gives up nothing to the 'blad apart from size/weight, but the results are sure worth it.</p>

<p>As for your other question Jon, film and digital just look different. I used to shoot weddings with my D3, and the last one I shot 50% D3, and 50% F5. The client chose 85% of the shots from my F5, and the remaining shots were chosen mostly due to the 'moment' captured (better facial expressions etc). This is what finally made me decide to go back to film for all of my important work.....it is my preference, but may not be everyone's. But if I can figure out how to put my 4Gb Sandisk CF card into my Durst enlarger, things might change!</p>

<p>Just a little of correction, under the trees everything is green....</p><div></div>

<p>No matter how many pixels they pack into those 35mm cameras, they are still a 35mm camera, same goes for cropped sensors.</p>

<p>If you want to try something for perfect color, grab a roll of Fuji Pro 160S, meter around iso 125-200, mainly for skintones, and have it processed and scanned by Richard Photo Labs in LA. Down load your scans and make some 11x14 and 16x20 prints.</p>

<p>You won't pick up your 5D for quality work any longer!</p>

<p>Ooops, I meant meter at 50-80 iso. I was thinking of my meter setings for Fuji Pro 400H.</p>

<p>Mark, in my experience a 35mm or digital SLR is the last thing you want to point at people. Too normal. Might be a stalker. With a huge and/or old camera you can get away with <em>a lot</em>. Walk around with a TLR and you can do basically whatever you want to with it. So long as you don't mind people talking to you.</p>

Marc Todd: Nice work! It looks like you carry the beast around for street stuff also. I need to get a

comfortable neck grip.

Jimi: You cleaned up that image nicely.

 

Someone mentioned that the IQ was better in a "blad". How much better? Is it the glass? Now I feel like I

have a second rate camera compared to a blad. Uh oh Hassy envy is beginning. I was looking at those also

on ebay because I really wanted a flex body, but they are alot more then the Mamiya.

 

I do plan to have the whole kit CLA in the next few weeks, although there are no signs that it needs it, but I

am sure the light seals should be changed by now.

 

Regarding street use, I think one can pick a bust street corner and set up with a tripod or even shoot

handheld, when there are literally hundreds of people moving back and forth no one is really going to notice

you. Places like Grand Central Station etc.

But I would feel a little self conscience to attempt to get candids on the street of people when you have to

focus, meter, and do all those critical adjustments that can take up to 30 seconds to perform, and your

pointing what looks like a canon at someone.

<blockquote>

<p>Someone mentioned that the IQ was better in a "blad". How much better? Is it the glass? Now I feel like I have a second rate camera compared to a blad.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Jon, that my inititial assumption, however this has proven to be far from the truth. The RB gives up <em>nothing</em> to the 'blad.</p>

<p>I think it would be fair to say that i'm a bit of a Hasselblad man.<br />And from that perspective i can honestly say that the Big Mamiyas are indeed every bit as good. There's nothing in it.<br /><br />(Except that the Big Mamiyas are too darn big to be usefull. ;-) )</p>

<p>ahem....<br>

Sorry to interupt the love fest but I just had to interject. There is no doubt medium format will give greater resolution than 35mm digital, but there is a heck of a lot more to image quality than pure resolution. I look at your example of the fellow sitting on the bench (in colour). The image looks absolutely terrible because of the horrible colour rendition from your scan. I appreciate that other scanners and/or scanner operators can do a better job but therin lies the problem...how much work do you need to do to get the colours right?? I could have shot that exact same photo with my 1DS2 in Jpg and it would have looked a million times better straight out of the camera.<br>

With that said, I do appreciate and see the benefit of film's added exposure latitude, and even the resolution if you really need it.</p>

<p>I have just finished a shooting session with a RZ+180, and amongst other things, these were some of my thoughts during the shoot:</p>

<ul>

<li><em>This darn thing is really huge. I`d say feels bigger than my 4x5s...</em></li>

<li><em>If the model moves again </em>(focus lost)<em>, I`ll need to loosen the head to check focus once again. No please, I don`t want to move the beast...</em></li>

<li><em>If he moves again I will get mad and I`ll take a D700 to finish the session! That`s all.</em></li>

<li><em>How can the rack and pinion hold this 180+compendium? That`s incredible.</em></li>

<li><em>This is the latest time I shoot without a geared head. I will go for it tomorrow.</em></li>

<li><em>Hmmm, the scene at the screen looks nice... let me check how it looks vertical... no better horizontal... this rotating back is great. I`d like it on the 4x5s...</em></li>

<li><em>This head will broke. It holds the weight but better another five times bigger. </em></li>

<li><em>Clonk! Is there any dampening on the mirror? Hassies must be designed like Leicas, to have a softer mirror landing. I miss it.</em></li>

<li><em>Nothing like a leaf shutter with half speeds. This thing is great.</em></li>

</ul>

<p>And many others... :)</p>

Clint don't rain on our parade man :)

<p>It's easy to get the colour right, both straight out of the scanner, and in postprocessing.<br>

If that's all the 1Ds2 has going for it (and it doesn't have much going for it, compared to the RB. It's not even considerably smaller), beter throw your 1Ds2 in the bin, Clint! ;-)</p>