Reception lighting set-up

<p>I would like to start practicing with some off-camera lighting to use at receptions and need some help putting together exactly what I need. The world of flash/off camera lighting is totally foreign to me, so I may sound completely ignorant! I have a Canon 5D and will use a speedlite 580EXII mounted on my camera. If I wanted to experiment (obviously, BEFORE actually doing this at a wedding!) with a 2nd flash set-up on a pole in another location of the reception venue, what do I need?? I assume a 2nd flash and a lightstand, but anything to attach the flash to the stand or will it fit right on? Also, I'm leaning towards using pocket wizards, but don't know exactly what to look into, cords? how many? etc. <br>

Any input would be fabulous! THANKS!</p>

<p>I would ask--what is the purpose of your off camera light? To function as "room lights' (opening up backgrounds, adding to ambient and adding accent light)? Or to light up groups of people? Or both?</p>

<p>If you are going to use a flash (what flash?) on a stand, you need a stand (I like Bogen Manfrotto Nano), a stand adapter (usually will incorporate an umbrella shaft), the flash, and a trigger (receiver) with the appropriate cables. For the stand adapter, I like the following.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/MF6829/">http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/MF6829/</a></p>

<p>The cables for PWs will depend on the flash you get. Which one are you looking at?</p>

<p>Also, you realize you can use the Canon wireless system if you get another EX flash, but it has it's issues, and so do PWs, if you get a 580EX II (radio interference).</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The world of flash/off camera lighting is totally foreign to me</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I guess I don't understand that? Light is light. The better you understand it the better you are. And the beauty of light is that is behaves the same and therefore can be modified somewhat predictably!</p>

<p>In any event, as Nadine points out, you first need to decide on a purpose and then on a light. The advantage to a Canon Speedlight is the ability to control the OCF wirelessly. The drawback to the Canon speedlight is that is will be more expensive than say a more powerful Alien Bee strobe and it is still a small light source. Even bounced, I prefer an Alein Bee over a shoe mount flash. The advantage to a strobe such as an Alien Bee is more power (probably not needed at a reception) and, IMHO, a better quality if light. The disadvantage, no built in OCF control. So what's it to be?!</p>

<p><br /></p>

<p>thanks for your responses. Here's some more info., but more questions too!!<br>

I plan to use the light to help light up the background and groups of people for candid shots (not for formal photos or anything). I honestly don't know WHAT kind of light I want, I have just been pouring over all the threads here about reception lighting and from what I could gather, with what I have already (just the one 580ex speedlite) was that I should just get another one of those with some pocket wizards. I could easily be persuaded in a different direction, b/c, like I said, flash lighting is really foreign. I shoot all natural light on a regular basis, but I have learned that in a wedding reception situation, it's just really hard to make that work. I'm just starting to do some experimenting. <br>

Ignorant question #1: what does "OCF" mean? <br>

Ignorant question #2: how does an Alien Bee strobe light work and what is the difference to the shoe mount flash (that I assume I have with the speedlite)? <br>

I do want wireless control since I'll be moving all over the place at a reception and from what I've read on the other threads, the Canon ETTL system has several drawbacks, which is why I was going to go with the pocketwizards tha tmost people seem to use. However, I don't really have the money to invest in them right now, so maybe I should just try the Canon system to get a feel for using <em>something </em>rather than nothing?</p>

OCF: Off Camera Flash, as John D used. It also stands for "On Camera Flash". Yes, the acronym is useless that way.

<p>If your going to place a light at a location and forget about as you shoot, you will need to get a strobes. You will also need the PW to trip your lights. If you simply want to add some extra (bigger diffused) light, you can simply get another a 580 EX II and control it with your current flash. The limitations will be; distance, portability.<br>

Here's what I use: I have a PW mounted on top of my flash but hooked up in my camera. This way my 580 EX II still has the ETTL capability. I then have 2 or 3 of my strobes in the venue with a PW attached to all of them. I then go around and take samples of lights around the room with my PW equip light meter. Normally I use my strobes at way reduce power to measure 125 @ F4 ISO 200 or very close to it. I then use my 580 to bounce as well. Most of the time my 580 is in manual mode as ETTL gets fooled rather easily. About 40% of the time, I take a quick shot with my light meter (it trips all my lights) to make sure I will get a good exposure. I would start out with another shoe mount first and add 2 lights and 3 PW later. Hope this helped. BTW, I don't get all my lights out for every wedding. After 12 years I know most places that would need extra lighting. v/r Buffdr</p>

<p>Parv has correctly supplied the answer to OCF.</p>

<p>An Alien Bee flash has more power than a shoemount, is made more for studio type work, and is usually corded (although battery packs can be purchased). The advantage is the power.</p>

<p>I have often recommended that a person starting with off camera lighting just get another flash like the on camera and use the wireless system built in, to be able to get a feel for off camera lighting. At the very least, you have an identical flash back up, which you should have anyway (the back up part, at least). With the Canon wireless system, you will eventually be frustrated with line of sight and range issues, but if you do your research and use them intelligently, you can do quite a lot. While doing the experimentation, you will be learning what you like and don't like, and will be in a better position to purchase your non-Canon wireless system, including other flashes.</p>

<p>To get started with the above, just get another 580EX II or 430EX II (or even an older 550EX), the stand, and stand adapter and you will be set.</p>

<p>Be aware that with the newer PWs, there is an issue with 580EX IIs re radio interference. When you are ready to purchase triggers, come back here and ask.</p>

<p>Buffdr and Nadine, thank you SO much! Great info. Defintiely helps. I do think my best bet right now may be to just get another speedlite flash/stand and just get a feel for using off camera lighting at the least. Is there somewhere (website) you would recommend I go to get more info. on the limitations/line of sight/range issues so I can better understand how to use the set-up? Also, what kind of stand adapter do I need to purchase to mount a shoe mount flash? <br>

Lastly (I think!), what settings do you recommend if I am using the Canon system (Master/Slave, right??)??</p>

Lindsey, some of the resources other than photo.net http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&rls=en&q=lighting+%7C+flash+%7C+strobe+stand+control+wedding+site%3Aphoto.net are ...

 

http://neilvn.com/tangents/ (see right hand column to orient)

 

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

 

http://strobist.blogspot.com/

 

(please do a search before posting your query)

<p>I'd recommend the following--Chuck Gardner's tutorials on the Canon wireless system. Scroll down to the Canon index. As far as the limitations, I've found that most people expect too much of the Canon system. If you understand the limitations and follow the instructions, you should be OK. For instance, the range is about 30 feet, probably less outside in bright sunlight. People will try to shoot outside in bright sun and feel frustrated because it "doesn't work". And turning the sensors toward each other is important. Well, if you follow the instructions...</p>

<p>I've also made a little 'shade' for the wireless sensor on my flash and it seems to help outside in bright sun.</p>

<p>The stand adapter--I linked to my favorite one above. It is a Calumet product.</p>

<p>Regarding the settings--read Chuck Gardner's tutorials until you fully understand. You will know what settings to use then. One other thing--many people are surprised to find that the on camera flash will seem to 'shut down' or underexpose when the off camera flash is firing into the lens. This is an ETTL issue. You can try using the on camera flash in averaging flash metering (this is a custom function) and it will be slightly better. Or, avoid firing your off camera flash into the lens.</p>

<p><a href="http://super.nova.org/DPR/#Canon">http://super.nova.org/DPR/#Canon</a></p>

<p>Hi Lindsey. I am in the same situation. I want to get into flash photography more, and know nothing about it, that is until i read a great book by Bob Davis, called "Lights, Camera, Capture". This is a great resource and really opened my eyes up the potential of using Canon speedlites. The book discusses many lighting situations, the gear he uses, and there are lighting set-up diagrams with each photo, as well as the exif info for each shot. I am no pro, but I found this resource answered a lot of questions that I had, and allowed me to start thinking about portable lighting options. Here are some links to reviews:<br>

http://www.photographybay.com/2010/05/06/lights-camera-capture-book-review/<br>

http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Camera-Capture-Techniques-Photographers/product-reviews/047054953X/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1<br>

Good luck,<br>

Paul</p>

 

<p>Keeping to the original requested use: if your primary objective is to add supplemental background lighting for reception rooms (presumably larger and darker spaces) ... you may find the Canon wireless system to be frustrating and unreliable.</p>

<p>The published specifications of the Canon STE-2 transmitter state that the maximum indoor distance is 40' to 50' ... however, the system is NOT a radio signal sender/receiver like the Pocket Wizards or other similar radio systems ... it uses an infrared pulse trigger (light), and if the "line of sight" to the receiving Speed Light is blocked, it will not fire. Light doesn't pass through solid objects.</p>

<p>In comparison, a standard Pocket Wizard PlusII Transceiver has a max distance of 1,600' (probably ambitious, but the point is made) ... and it doesn't rely on "line of sight" ... meaning the receiver can be hidden from the photographer and still fire the flash ... you can even put a supplemental light in another room, completely out of sight, and it'll still fire. </p>

<p>The supposed draw back is that you cannot have the supplemental speed light controlled by the camera's TTL meter. IMO, that is usually not an issue for this type of use if controlling an off-camera speed light in the background. You usually need all the light a small speed light can put out ... especially if it is at a distance. In most cases where you need a second background light, the TTL meter will fire it at full power anyway. If not, the Canon 580EX can be set to manual and the power lever adjusted to fit your need.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Personally we keep it simple. We have a single off camera 580exii on a 12' lightstand pointed down at the dance floor, powered by a pocket wizard, and we also have a 580exii (each) that we use on camera and bounce off available white for fill. Works great, is super-simple and produces great results. :)</p>

<p>Marc, your comment makes me go back to leaning towards the PWs. <br>

Cathy and David, you say you just use one pocket wizard, correct? I thought there was a need for two when you had two flashes (one on camera and one off camera)? I like the idea of continuing to use my 580exii on camera bouncing for fill and one 580exii on a stand to help with the dance floor. Now, I just need to better understand how the pw works. Where is it attached? connected? <br>

THANKS everyone for such great input. I'm starting to get it....a little bit :)</p>

<p>You do need two PWs. And I'd do a lot of research before buying PWs to go with the 580EX II. I know that there is radio interference from the 580EX II with the PW Flex/Minis that are sold in the U.S. Enough that PW will give you a free shroud for your flash. I have also heard of these issues with the older PWs, although not nearly as much.</p>

<p>I personally use Cybersyncs, and they don't have bells and whistles but they just work. Can't be happier with their reliability, and I have a 580EX II and a 580EX, as well as other flashes.</p>

<p>As for connections, do not use the PC port on the flash to attach a transmitter. It is inactive in some modes and on some Canon models, will not fire the transmitter. You basically attach the transmitter to the PC port on the camera body with a cable that has a PC tip on one end and a tip that fits your transmitter on the other. If a PW, it is a 1/8 mini plug. You attach the PW or transmitter itself to the flash or the camera. There are a number of ways. Velcro, double ended 1/4 20 screws, a third party carrier for it. The simplest is Velcro, onto the flash.</p>

<p>I would encourage you to get the EX flash and experiment before settling on triggers. Even though you may run into line of sight and range problems, you will also then know whether you want ETTL to carry through to your off camera flashes, or whether you want manual off camera flashes. This makes a big difference in your trigger decision.</p>

<p>EDIT: Sorry, Nadine posted hers while I was typing mine. </p>

<p>Lindsey, consider <a href="http://www.alienbees.com/cybersyncplus.html">Cybersync radio triggers</a>, which do what the basic PWs do, but are less expensive. You'd need one CST (transmitter, for the camera) and one or two CSRB or CSRB+ receivers for the flash(es).</p>

<p>In my experience, the Cybersyncs work reliably and at great distances. Like the basic PWs, the Cybersyncs do not allow ETTL/iTTL communication between the camera and flash, so you're shooting on manual. But having learned so much from Nadine about exposure, and about setting up cross-lighting and using off-camera flash in other ways, I prefer manual mode now. (Thanks, Nadine!)</p>

<p>If you need ETTL, you want the newer miniTT1 and flexTT5 units from PW. But of course they're considerably more expensive.</p>

<p>Whether you use PWs or Cybersyncs, you'll connect them using an included cable to your flash unit's PC connector (a small round connector). If you're using on-camera flash (I tend to get all of my flashes off-camera now, unless I'm using a ring-flash adapter for certain specific purposes), you can probably still connect the trigger/transmitter to your camera's PC connector as well, if your camera body has that connector. Otherwise, the transmitter just sits in the hot-shoe. I use Nikon equipment, so I'm not familiar with the Canon bodies, but if you tell us which body you're using, I'd bet Nadine or one of the other Canon shooters could tell you whether you can connect the trigger to the camera while also using on-camera flash.</p>

<p>Again, MANY THANKS!!<br>

One new piece of info: I just went to rent a few backup items from Borrow Lenses and they rent Pocket Wizards. So, maybe it wuld be a good idea to rent 2 pw's from Borrowed Lenses instead of making an outright investment anyway. the ones that are available are these:<br>

<a href="http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/canon_flash/PocketWizard_MultiMax">PocketWizard MultiMax 32 Channel Transceiver Radio Slave</a> or <br /><a href="http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/canon_flash/pocket_wizard_II">PocketWizard Plus II Transceiver</a> and<br>

<a href="http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/canon_flash/pocketwizard_canon_motor">PocketWizard CM-N3-P Pre-Trigger Motor Cord, Canon 3-Pin to Miniphone - 3'</a><br>

Ian, I am shooting with a Canon 5D. Is there anywhere I can see a picture of a flash mounted on camera with a trigger connected as well?? I just can't visualize how they both fit on camera. </p>

<p>You'd want the Plus IIs only, two of them. Here is one solution--there are many.</p>

<p><a href="http://michaelbass.blogspot.com/2007/01/plugs-jacks-cable-hardware-misc.html#StartPlugsJacks">http://michaelbass.blogspot.com/2007/01/plugs-jacks-cable-hardware-misc.html#StartPlugsJacks</a></p>

<p>Scroll down to Remote Transceiver Caddy.</p>

<p>The cable you need is a 1/8 mini plug to PC cable, available from Flash Zebra, or many other places--you might get it with the rental.</p>

<p>What is the off camera flash you intend to use?</p>

<p>Thanks Nadine. I was just going to use another 580exii (rented) as the off camera flash to give it all a try.</p>

<p>Forgot the receiver cable. You'll need a hotshoe adapter cable. Go to Flash Zebra and look at their hotshoe adapters. Ask Lon which one--he is very helpful. Or, the rental place probably has them.</p>

<p>Well, I have perhaps a looser definition of "mounted" which involves a bit of gaffer tape, if I'm using both on-camera flash <em>and </em>a transmitter.</p>

<p>In case I didn't make it clear, the on-camera flash sits in the hot-shoe, and the transmitter is connected by cable, so you can, ah, "mount" it anywhere, or just hold it in your left hand, or even let it dangle if you dare. You could gaffer-tape (or velcro-mount) the transmitter to the side of your flash head if you're not using attachments like diffusers or snoots. The Cybersync transmitter is quite small, so this isn't as awkward as it might be with a big ol' Pocket Wizard.</p>

<p>However, if you don't like using gaffer tape, Nadine's link also shows a "Tripod Quick Release Double Blind Mount" that allows you to park a transmitter on the bottom of the camera (you'll see it a bit above middle of that long page). Not ideal if you're using a battery grip to shoot vertical shots. </p>

<p>If you buy the Cybersyncs, they come with all of these different cable connectors (e.g., PC-to-1/8 mini). Not sure about PWs, but I'd be surprised if they didn't come with all the cables, too. But if you rent, you'll need to be sure you get the right ones.</p>

<p>I will say this: now that I've been using these dumb-triggers for a while, I increasingly wish I had the ability to set each flash's output individually, from the camera location. I don't wish for the iTTL metering calculations, but I do hate having to walk over to each flash to change its output while I'm setting up.</p>

<p>Thanks again. I just checked out the Cybersyncs and spoke with the woman there. I think I'll give those a try since they are considerably cheaper than the PWs for the time being. I really appreacite all the help!!</p>

The cool part of Alien Bee's and the parent company White Lightning is you can save a lot of money using their new radio slave units. This will save you about $400 and up, dependin on how many PW's you need.

 

In some cases, when the Bee's are on sale the lower end lights cost about the same as a 580

flash unit. Also check out the kits, you sometimes can get a light, an umbrella, a stand,and a case to

load all of this stuff.

Here's an example of their kit -

 

The Beginner Bee $358.66

the BEGINNER BEE is the best place to start! This single-light setup is the perfect way for you to get acquainted with AlienBees units and with photographic lighting in general. Our versatile B800 lets you get to know the features of the bees, getting hands-on experience as you learn adjustment and accessory use.

 

1 CB1 Single Light Carrying Bag

1 LS3050 10-foot General Purpose Stand

1 U48TWB 48-inch Shoot-Thru Umbrella

<p>Lindsey, also just a suggestion that I need to follow myself. If you are a total NEWBIE to flash, then try to find a class to take on it, or at least read several books and experiment with it before you get to a wedding, or 2nd shoot for someone who does use this equipment well and see the difference yourself. The other day I worked as a 2nd shooter for someone using Alien Bees and PW and I was definitely hooked after seeing the results. Prior to that shoot I had no idea how to set up and use those lights. If you 2nd shoot, be sure to ask the lead shooter how the set up works and why he or she is doing what she is doing. While they are setting up the lights may or may not be a good time to do this. If you have lots of time for set up and they seem open for questions, go for it. If not, make some mental notes and ask them about it after the job is done. If the person you are 2nd shooting for isn't teaching you anything, find someone else to second shoot for. Good luck!</p>